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Menelee: What Genesis says is correct. He should feel free to voice his personal concerns about these proposed changes, just as you should feel free to support them. In the end, if there is an overwhelming majority supporting these changes and the devs don't find them to be hard to impelement or cause some other unforeseen problems, they may implement a few or even all of them at some point. The fact that they've implemented some already (KO Blow and the KB changes) leaves me optimistic for the future. Even if nothing else gets implemented I'm going to enjoy the crap out of what's on Test already 
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See other post. My point was simple this forum should not be filled with arguements over who is correct incorrect. If negativety takes over, the devs will ignore it. The continued debating should be in PM's to help other understand your points and to gain agreeance. Arguing here is not the place.
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Gang,
I'm holding off on touching Super Strength until we tackle a somewhat greater issue with Tankers - namely that they lack that "comic book feel." Specifically, you'd like to see Super Strength be something somewhat, well, "Hulk-ish." But currently, Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.
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Thanks for the heads up.
Fix for all Tankers regarding the comic-feel issue? Errrr in this issue?
Gotta say, in standard Statesman fashion you got me really curious now.
For all those that say the devs don't respond: 
Mentalee: Errr nice timing eh? hehehe
Everytime he responds, he makes me feel bad for critisizing the Tanker AT so much. 
YAY!
Thanks for the update Statesman!!
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Mentalee: Errr nice timing eh? hehehe
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Extremely. I knew they were reading and just trying to keep the negativity to a minimum.
Can ya tell I had my coffee today? hehe
THANKS STATESMAN for reading/listening!!!
Ya know it occurs to me that Statesman and Stateswoman never appear at the sametime.
Coincidence?
I think not.
Sweet.
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Gang,
I'm holding off on touching Super Strength until we tackle a somewhat greater issue with Tankers - namely that they lack that "comic book feel." Specifically, you'd like to see Super Strength be something somewhat, well, "Hulk-ish." But currently, Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm just wanted to correct one thing. Currently SS is a poor cousin to most of the other TANKER secondaries. Scrappers are playing in a whole different game.
I'm sorry, Noble, you seem to be responding to the wrong post. Here's the one you meant to respond to:
OMG U SUXX0RZ 4 HAV 2 UZ US! LOLOLOLOLLLZ!!!!!1!!1!!1! I M TEH UB0R HAV WEY AROND IT!!! IF U KANT SUVIV WITHOUT US U SUXX0RZ TEH BALZZZ!!!! LOLOL!!!!1!!!!1111!!!
Now, if you want to actually pay attention to what I was SAYING, I was simply agreeing that I don't think US is an absolute must have. There was no call for you to try and taunt me regarding that. I freely admit to not having a lot of experience in the top-end game, and maybe I will regret making that decision later- but maybe not. There's no way to say for sure, until I get there. In the meantime, I'll just have my fun playing my tank my way and reminding people that there is no 'one way'. I'm not saying my way is better for anyone other than myself- but it works better for me, and it might work better for people who play like I do. It might not. But you'll never find out if you don't try.
And, thanks Kruunch, but Frozen Touch is Minor(DoT) and I think it was Frozen Aura that they were bumping up? Not sure.
Statesman- glad to hear that work's being done.
[ QUOTE ]
Gang,
I'm holding off on touching Super Strength until we tackle a somewhat greater issue with Tankers - namely that they lack that "comic book feel." Specifically, you'd like to see Super Strength be something somewhat, well, "Hulk-ish." But currently, Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
/sigh.
Well guys, consider this news the nail in the coffin. Been great talking with many of you, and I wish you all the very best.
5 weeks, lord knows how many posts and suggestions, and he thinks we all want to be the Hulk.... I give up.
/signed
/agreed
/already PMed a link to the first post to Statesman and Positron
Nice work Krunch, let's hope that these changes get implemented.
As an aiside, I've used Invincibility to great effect to aggro huge chunks of mobs to me, thus making me feel like I'm pulling my weight when I group. Just thought I'd throw that out there. This is one Inv/SS Tanker that has NEVER taken Taunt and has no plans whatsoever to take provoke.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, Noble, you seem to be responding to the wrong post. Here's the one you meant to respond to:
OMG U SUXX0RZ 4 HAV 2 UZ US! LOLOLOLOLLLZ!!!!!1!!1!!1! I M TEH UB0R HAV WEY AROND IT!!! IF U KANT SUVIV WITHOUT US U SUXX0RZ TEH BALZZZ!!!! LOLOL!!!!1!!!!1111!!!
Now, if you want to actually pay attention to what I was SAYING, I was simply agreeing that I don't think US is an absolute must have. There was no call for you to try and taunt me regarding that. I freely admit to not having a lot of experience in the top-end game, and maybe I will regret making that decision later- but maybe not. There's no way to say for sure, until I get there. In the meantime, I'll just have my fun playing my tank my way and reminding people that there is no 'one way'. I'm not saying my way is better for anyone other than myself- but it works better for me, and it might work better for people who play like I do. It might not. But you'll never find out if you don't try.
And, thanks Kruunch, but Frozen Touch is Minor(DoT) and I think it was Frozen Aura that they were bumping up? Not sure.
Statesman- glad to hear that work's being done.
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Good post and you're absolutely right. One of the stengths of this game is that you can do different things with the same AT combo. And this is coming from someone who has played the upper third of the game with two different characters.
Oh and you don't have to take US. You can survive quite well with Unstoppable. If you choose not to take either your life might become a bit .... frustrating (or boring if you just stick to the couple of upper factions that have no stunners/mezzers). The number of overall status effects in this game (especially stun/hold/sleep) is a bit steep imo.
Warspite: Hang out man. I think Statesman was using a very broad example. I took it to mean that he's looking at ways to bump up Tankers in general either in feel or power or both. But I will say that was a rather vague Statesmen(t).
If the fix is something like having Tankers have a build-up pool so that when they take damage, they can opt to unleash some of that damage back in the form of attack, really giving the Tanker a massive, slow attack that is based on the amount of damage they are taking, (or something similar) then all Tankers would share one large attack and the scale of Super Strength concerns would diminish. (How's that for a run on sentence).
At this point then, maybe this thread should be let lie (if possible). Voices have been heard on all sides of the issue and, under the shadow of ignorance about what upcoming change is planned, it is hard to say what will and won't be needed. This can be brought forth agan when we hear the intended changes (months from now) and still have issues with the disparity.
[ QUOTE ]
Gang,
I'm holding off on touching Super Strength until we tackle a somewhat greater issue with Tankers - namely that they lack that "comic book feel." Specifically, you'd like to see Super Strength be something somewhat, well, "Hulk-ish." But currently, Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
That doesn't sound like an Issue 2 change. Well I probably won't be at level 50 by Issue 3.
Statesman, how about you give us a list like Krunch gave you? It doesn't have to be right away, but after ya'll round-table and get some ideas, but before you put a lot of coding work into it. That would give you a little more focused feedback than the last "Hey tell me what's wrong. I'll read every message" post, and believe me, if there is something you missed in your list, you'll hear about it.
EveryNighters:
Tar Heel Lvl 50 Inv/SS Tank
Knight of Purgatory Lvl 50 Fire/Ax Tank
Kilmainham Wall Lvl 50 Stone/Stone Tank
Re-Fridgerator Lvl 50 Ice/Ice Tank
Yankee Doodle Dandy Lvl 50 Will/Eng Tank
Teen Tar Heel Lvl 50 MA/SR Scrapper
EvilNighters:
Tar Heel Dead Lvl 50 DD Brute
Let SS attacks do a lot more damage, but at the same time severely lower the tanker's defense while the power is "activating"?
[ QUOTE ]
Gang,
I'm holding off on touching Super Strength until we tackle a somewhat greater issue with Tankers - namely that they lack that "comic book feel." Specifically, you'd like to see Super Strength be something somewhat, well, "Hulk-ish." But currently, Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
Holy crap?
I feel like youre saying that if someone disagrees with these proposed changes, its ok to respond repeatedly with your opinion to reinforce the fact that you still agree with the requested changes, but not the other way around. Curious.
As for why I continue to respond, its because I see statements I wish to comment on, like..
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Not having Unyielding Stance in the 40-50 game may require me to change my tactics, or rely on the abilities of my group members more. If the only way I can do it is by picking up Unyielding Stance, then this is a broken game in my opinion.
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That's what Krunch has been saying for some time now. In a broader sense, sure, but still.
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Actually I feel like Krunch has been instead pushing to change Tankers to work within a broken concept, instead of working to fix the broken concept (if one even exists) so Tankers work correctly again in the end-game. Theres a difference.
Mostly Ive been continuing to comment because questions have either been addressed towards me, or people are responding to my comments with points that I feel are, in ways, misleading.
Thus, Mentalee_Fryde, I have no plans to discontinue commenting on things I disagree with (or agree with) any time soon, so I'll suggest that you stop stressing needlessly over it and just ignore my opinions if they bother you so much. Like you, I just want my point of view considered by the developers when decisions about the archetype I play are being made. Im sorry you view disagreement as negativity, but theres nothing I can do regarding how you choose to view things.
Dotar Soljat's plan
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Great idea.
I am simply really fed up with vague statements, cutsie teasers and continued data gathering, when the problem is blatantly obvious and we should be beyond the devs acting coy about changes.
If he can't give us solid information, and a reasonable timeline, particularly in light of the news about Mace that was obtained last night from Geko on TC, I'm done.
[ QUOTE ]
Ya know it occurs to me that Statesman and Stateswoman never appear at the sametime.
Coincidence?
I think not.
[/ QUOTE ]
HEH! Gah, I wish. I would LOVE to work at a place like Cryptic on/around a game like this. Unfortunately, I wouldn't have the first clue about where/how to get started on a career in this industry.
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Gang,
I'm holding off on touching Super Strength until we tackle a somewhat greater issue with Tankers - namely that they lack that "comic book feel." Specifically, you'd like to see Super Strength be something somewhat, well, "Hulk-ish." But currently, Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm just wanted to correct one thing. Currently SS is a poor cousin to most of the other TANKER secondaries. Scrappers are playing in a whole different game.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can vouch for this. I played my Invul/SS Tanker from beta onward and around level 17 just gave up (I know, I didn't have Invincibility yet hehe).
I switched to Dark Melee/Regen Scrapper and felt instantly SUPER again! 
I do hope all goes well and Statesman is on the case for those who toughed it out as Tankers. I think this bodes well. We have the best devs in the biz!
/military salute Statesman
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Gang,
I'm holding off on touching Super Strength until we tackle a somewhat greater issue with Tankers - namely that they lack that "comic book feel." Specifically, you'd like to see Super Strength be something somewhat, well, "Hulk-ish." But currently, Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
/sigh.
Well guys, consider this news the nail in the coffin. Been great talking with many of you, and I wish you all the very best.
5 weeks, lord knows how many posts and suggestions, and he thinks we all want to be the Hulk.... I give up.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't give up on this. He never said that "he thinks we all want to be the Hulk". He's only acknowledging that people want Super Strength to be, as he said, "Hulk-ish". Not that Super Strength would output the damage of the Hulk. But at least feel powerful, you know, that "comic book feel". And he only mentioned Super Strength in this respect.
As many people have said, CoH Tanks feel furthest from their comic book representatives than any archetypes, and this seems to be more of an admission of that from Statesman himself. I would consider that a small victory, myself.
Really, we shouldn't put words in the dev's mouth. It's bad enough we're doing this to each other.
/sigh
I am sorry you do not understand.
[ QUOTE ]
Gang,
I'm holding off on touching Super Strength until we tackle a somewhat greater issue with Tankers - namely that they lack that "comic book feel." Specifically, you'd like to see Super Strength be something somewhat, well, "Hulk-ish." But currently, Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
*Keeps the faith in this awesome dev team*
*Starts wearing purple pants and playing CoH from a sandbox filled with authentic White Sands New Mexico sand.*
*Invites people to flame him a lot.*
Errr... yay?