Signed!
Thanks to the tanker community for fighting the good fight!
The Alpha Project SS/invul Tanker on Victory
/sign
Not 100% perfect from my point of view, but dramatically better than where we're sitting right now. Therefore, a very positive change and a compromise that I'd be happy to accept in order to get something that is better than what we have now.
/sign
Very well done Krunch!!! Thanks again for all the hard work.
Love the idea of handclap instead of provoke. I didn't take handclap because of the uselessness it currently has for my playstyle.
/signed
Do It Do It
Jack Wolfe Prototype Super Tank, over 25 million in damage taken in the service of others
My 360 hates me and writes about it
Jack's X-Box's Blog
I will love the light for it shows me the way, yet I will endure the darkness for it shows me the stars. ---Og Mandino---
i think 8) should be changed to "Replace Tanut with a 'BETTER than Provoke' power" . . .
LOL
Starsky and Hutch! "Doooo It! Dooooooooooo It!"
I like all of Krunches Ideas. I specificlly like turning Handclap into Provoke. I think making a secondary Provoke power based on the type of power for all Archs is a great idea.
If Handclap becomes provoke then the knock back effect on it won't be so bad.
I think Foot Stomp is nice the way it is but I agree that it should be available earlier. I just got it at 38 and it pains me to know that I have to get a few more levels (which takes along time for me now) to decently slot it.
I also think Foot Stomp needs a disorient effect. Mabe make foot stomp an advanced version of Hand clap with Heavy damage, better provoke, knock down and disorient.
The more I think about it the more it just makes sense:
Make Hand Clap have an equal taunt to Provoke and replace Taunt with Hand Clap in the Tanker secondary (so it can be taken early).
Make Foot Stomp available by 16th, just like Energy Melee's Whirling Hands is.
Make Knockout Punch and Hurl our huge heavy hitter attacks, Knockout Punch available at the same time Energy Melee's huge attack is.
That, and the other changes in the proposal, definitely starts bringing Super Strength into line.
Statesman says he never wants to do anything that isn't FUN. Well, taunt and provoke are NOT FUN. They're situationally useful, but not fun. EVERY Tanker should be able to accomplish those effects in a way that makes sense for the type of tanker they are (super strength using hand clap to 'provoke', etc.).
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I am happy with Rage as its stands but the rest gets my vote.
EDIT: Therefore I'd vote for the 1Mag disorient option.
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What he said.
Quixotik
"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator
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The more I think about it the more it just makes sense:
Make Hand Clap have an equal taunt to Provoke and replace Taunt with Hand Clap in the Tanker secondary (so it can be taken early).
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As long as people realize that this suggestion in no way obviates the "need" that some people see for Provoke. Provoke's one real advantage is that it is a ranged AoE taunt. Hand Clap will never replace that.
Doing this would be a nice bonus for all those non-Invulnerability tankers who have Super Strength as their secondary, though. (Both of them! 
) Because Inv/SS simply doesn't need it - Invincibility is all the PBAoE taunt an Inv/SS tank will ever need.
Provoking 40 mobs to your Blasters and Super Jumping away screaming something about "AOE THAT YOU SOBS!!!!!" is tons of fun.
/boggle
Skulker,
What if Hand Clap was changed so that it worked the same way as Provoke? A targetted sonic blast basically?
My goal/hope is to incorporate 'Provoke' into the Tanker secondary lines in a fashion appropriate to the theme of that Tanker line. So Hand Clap would be like Provoke in every way that Provoke is like Provoke, but also continue to act similarly to how it has as Hand Clap.
Honestly, doing that would be more in line with how the rest of the power pools work anyway. Scrappers would still take Provoke, and Provoke would be a less attractive cousin to Hand Clap and whatever the rest of the Tanker lines get.
Since this is now the "official" super strength thread, I'd like to reiterate my thoughts on the very poor animations of super strength.
Jab: This is an uppercut. Replace with actual jab please
Punch: I don't know what that is, but replace with current animation of Brawl
Haymaker: Again, I don't know what that is, but I hear that Knockout blow is what Haymaker should be.
Knockout blow: Perhaps replace with current Punch or Haymaker animation.
The only new animation required is a jab. It is, in my opinion, a disgrase to give such a staple of super hero mythos such poor animations.
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What if Hand Clap was changed so that it worked the same way as Provoke? A targetted sonic blast basically?
My goal/hope is to incorporate 'Provoke' into the Tanker secondary lines in a fashion appropriate to the theme of that Tanker line. So Hand Clap would be like Provoke in every way that Provoke is like Provoke, but also continue to act similarly to how it has as Hand Clap.
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Would you keep Taunt in the Tanker secondaries in that case?
If so, then I'd say this would be a great idea. Tankers would have improved versions of Challenge (Taunt) and Provoke (Hand Clap) that would allow them to do their job better than anyone else. It'd even give me a reason to take Hand Clap. 
Mind you, it would need to be better than Provoke at doing Provoke's job, and that's going to be difficult when you're essentially adding it to an existing power.
Provoke currently has 3 major deficiencies: its recharge is too slow, its duration is insignificant vs the kinds of enemies we need it against, and the AI changes made it so that it frequently doesn't help anyway because the enemies just continue doing whatever they were doing before they were provoked.
If you're going to add it to Hand Clap, it needs:
1) Mag 4+ taunt. If it hits, it absolutely overrides whatever the enemy was doing. It should do more than just put the Tanker at the top of the hate list - it should actually encourage the enemy to attack the Tank. Currently, if an enemy is not in "attack" mode for some reason, Provoke doesn't affect it (or does so only rarely).
2) Dramatically increased duration. I say this based on the assumption that the recharge of Hand Clap is not going to be dramatically decreased, which means that the provoke-like effect that is being added needs to be increased so that there's a remote possibility of slotting to allow for duration overlap.
Remember, we're not boss killers - that's the Scrapper's job. So you cannot factor the built-in Tanker attack taunt into the "duration" of Provoke or Provoke-like powers. If we're supposed to be melee-range crowd control, we need to be able to control crowds.
I would definitely keep Taunt in the secondary line. It has its single target pulling uses.
Keep in mind also that Hand Clap isn't a damage dealing power. People slot Provoke now, why wouldn't we also slot Hand Clap the same way with Accuracy, Recharge Reduction, and (hopefully) Taunt Durations.
My suggestion would be to take Hand Clap and make it include every aspect of Provoke on top of what it already does (which really isn't very much at this point).
So instead of wasting a power pool on getting Provoke, we'd all get Hand Clap and slot it accordingly (just like we already do with Provoke). So we'd keep 'provoking' and look a heck of a lot cooler doing it, and with neat side effects that aren't name-calling.
Following the proposal suggestion of bringing Foot Stomp down to Whirling Hands availability, among the other suggested changes, and we're on the right track.
Yep that was the idea with Handclap to begin with. Make it the adhoc Provoke of the SS line and keep Taunt as the added agro management tool. No need for Provoke unless you *really* wanted overkill.
The last suggestion is if the Handclap changes a bit higher up can't/won't be made.
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I would definitely keep Taunt in the secondary line. It has its single target pulling uses.
Keep in mind also that Hand Clap isn't a damage dealing power. People slot Provoke now, why wouldn't we also slot Hand Clap the same way with Accuracy, Recharge Reduction, and (hopefully) Taunt Durations.
My suggestion would be to take Hand Clap and make it include every aspect of Provoke on top of what it already does (which really isn't very much at this point).
So instead of wasting a power pool on getting Provoke, we'd all get Hand Clap and slot it accordingly (just like we already do with Provoke). So we'd keep 'provoking' and look a heck of a lot cooler doing it, and with neat side effects that aren't name-calling.
Following the proposal suggestion of bringing Foot Stomp down to Whirling Hands availability, among the other suggested changes, and we're on the right track.
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I like it, make it so.
A 1 mag disorient is very close to a 0-mag disorient with all the resist dis powers available in the game. Especially in the tanker primaries.
The problem is that Hand Clap's current recharge is 30 seconds... that's essentially useless as a Provoke alternative. Provoke's current 10 seconds is very nearly useless (at least to me) so from my point of view this would be a non-change to Hand Clap. You'd be adding a capability to the power that I would ignore when making a decision to take/not take the power.
By far my biggest problem with my Tanker is managing/holding aggro. I do it just fine against evens, +1s, and generally against +2s. Against +3s and higher, which is what you need to fight if you're in a group, I start having serious problems. Against +5s I'm basically worthless as crowd control and become a simple "first salvo absorption" shield. Granted, that's generally sufficient, but it sure doesn't feel like a very "super" contribution to the group.
Adding a once-every-30-seconds provoke-like ability to Hand Clap doesn't change that at all. We need an improved Provoke - meaning we need something closer to the old Provoke back in some way.
It's possible we just need to have the magnitude or duration of Provoke increased... do that and I might consider using it again.
If you read the suggestion for Handclap you will notice it says "decrease recharge time to 12s". With 6 slots in recharge timers that puts it down to 4 second recharge. Or 3 slots recharge and Hasten.
Way ahead of yas.
What has become of the "Make knockdown enhancements add the same, if not more, damage than a damage enhancements"?
I really loved that one. Makes sense, too. And will make an extreme knockback much more desireable with "extreme" damage due to it. The more force you apply the farzher he'll fly, and receive more damage, too.
If inf-cost is an issue raise the knockback enhancement's cost over that of a damage one. Does anyone buy and slot knockback enhancers anyway?
That would be ideal but wouldn't be a quick change from a coding standpoint.
We were trying to keep things in line for what could possibly be done in Issue #2 (currently on Test).
/signed
I thought I already signed this, but maybe they deleted my post because I swore. 
Anyway good job Krunch, and as I said before the only change is that I would like Hurl sooner as I signed on to throw *stuff* 
SuperSolar-Fire/SS H.A.C.S. -Virtue
Capt. Solar-Inv/Fire Tank-Liberty
PowerStrike-Fire/Mace Tank-Virtue
Mighty Marvel-PeaceBringer-Virtue
Power X -Claws/Fire Scrapper-Virtue
Good discussions here, especially with Handclap. What I was wondering was, since all our attack powers have a magnitude 4 taunt built into them, would it be feasible to give handclap a minor DOT. The idea behind this is that each time it ticks it does another taunt, effectively keeping the mobs on you for an extended period of time. Just a thought. Don't even know if it is possible. I think handclap should stay melee though, otherwise we'll negate taunt and provoke completely, which I don't think the devs would want to do.
So if there was anyway to link a DOT with a taunt effect each tick. You could use taunt/provoke to get them close, and then Handclap to keep them close (since KB has been reworked). I know right now the secondary taunt effect on attacks isn't linked to the damage, but I guess it is possible. But since Footstomp is being reworked with KD, this might all be redundant.
But then we don't want to make super strength better than the other sets, just up to par. So an additional aggro hold might not be fair, unless something similar was given to them.
*So Stateswoman, what AT is Statesman?
/agree
/signpetition
Yes, I'd rather Handclap be a provoke (barring the upping of the provoke abilities on ALL of SS's attacks), but compromise being necessary, I support this petition as something we could all live with.
I still have issues with so many psionics running around, and us not having ANYTHING we can do to defend against it, and the rooting of U.S. still annoys the heck out of me...
Ingot