Very nice. Energy has to wait till 38 for Total Focus. If KB remains at 20 and has the same damage scaling as TF, then I'd say this move alone goes a long way to putting SS right there with EM which is widely considered one of the two best secondaries.
Sweet!
I can hear Bonesnap creaking down in the basement, I may need to add some 4 in 1 oil to his hinges.
I'm of the opinion we should leave it alone. It's absolutely perfect as is (as both a power in the game, and an SS power conceptually).
They couldn't have gotten this power more right if Stan Lee was dictating it.
Bonesnap: Go copy your SS Tanker to test. Do it now. You won't be disappointed.
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I'm of the opinion we should leave it alone. It's absolutely perfect as is (as both a power in the game, and an SS power conceptually).
They couldn't have gotten this power more right if Stan Lee was dictating it.
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Don't worry, I'm not going to complain if it keeps the hold ability. 
As far as I'm concerned it's just extra icing at the moment.
Just if the great god Balance decides it's too powerful now, they could think about losing that part instaed of upping cost.
I think the recharge time alone will keep it from being overbalanced. I believe Energy has a power equal to this with the same stats.
I didn't note the endurance consumption though. I was too giddy hitting things hehe.
One thing I will note is that this power is most effective against Bosses, and the hold doesn't seem to apply to them (at least it didn't effect the Paragon Protector I tried this against ... speaking of which it still did 100+ damage against Moment of Glory .... zoinks!).
Total Focus takes longer to animate -3.3 seconds - and refreshes in 20 seconds. But then again it's also level 38. which counts for how much we don't know.
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Gang,
I'm holding off on touching Super Strength until we tackle a somewhat greater issue with Tankers - namely that they lack that "comic book feel." Specifically, you'd like to see Super Strength be something somewhat, well, "Hulk-ish." But currently, Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.
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/sigh.
Well guys, consider this news the nail in the coffin. Been great talking with many of you, and I wish you all the very best.
5 weeks, lord knows how many posts and suggestions, and he thinks we all want to be the Hulk.... I give up.
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Easy, brother. I know you have problems with the whole "Hulk" concept (as evidenced by your dislike of the "madder we get, harder we hit" idea), but don't fret.
We all DO want to be the Hulk in the following ways:
-to dish out and take some damage
-a reason to be respected (or feared) in combat
-to be viable as an archetype both grouped and solo (especially post-30)
I mean, honestly, we have a power called "Rage" already. That's pretty Hulk, but I don't see people complaining about the name, but rather the effect.
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I'm somewhat on Warspite's side here. I don't want to be the Hulk either, I just want to be strong (and punch the bejeesus out of things ).
Yes I also wish Rage and the damage inspirations weren't "anger" themed and have said so. But in the end it's all just RP based dislikes on my part. Spiritually, my character is more stoic and determined, than a seething ball of pent up hostility. I'll learn to live with it though, it just niggles me.
Now the ability to rename powers... that would be awesome.
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Now the ability to rename powers... that would be awesome.
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/macro mypowername actualpowername (or whatever the syntax is)
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I think the recharge time alone will keep it from being overbalanced. I believe Energy has a power equal to this with the same stats.
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I'm hoping you're right Krunch.
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I didn't note the endurance consumption though. I was too giddy hitting things hehe.
One thing I will note is that this power is most effective against Bosses, and the hold doesn't seem to apply to them (at least it didn't effect the Paragon Protector I tried this against ... speaking of which it still did 100+ damage against Moment of Glory .... zoinks!).
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Yeah in 15 levels of using KO Blow, the hold has never once stuck on a Boss for me, that's why I consider it just flavour.
Anyway I kept the power and 4 slotted it when I did the Respec on Test, so I'm off to marvel over the beauty that is now K. O. Bloooowwwww .
/em dons Popeye suit
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Now the ability to rename powers... that would be awesome.
[/ QUOTE ]/macro mypowername actualpowername (or whatever the syntax is)
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hmmm... I never thought of that. Maybe me rilly am dummm as Hulk. 
That might be just what I need. I don't really care what other people see, just want to maintain the fiction for myself.
Thanks Moosejaw.
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I'm of the opinion we could easily drop the "hold" component. Doesn't need a fake knockout part as it can now really knock something out.
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Just if the great god Balance decides it's too powerful now, they could think about losing that part instaed of upping cost.
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Yeah in 15 levels of using KO Blow, the hold has never once stuck on a Boss for me, that's why I consider it just flavour.
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Thats because bosses require stacking of holds in order to be affected by them, and its why removing the hold component from knockout blow would be a bad idea. You wouldnt be able to contribute to a hold maneuver with the rest of your group when theyre setting up a combination of hold attacks on a boss. The hold component is what makes Knockout Blow a situational power (and an extremely useful one under the right circumstances).
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Just if the great god Balance decides it's too powerful now, they could think about losing that part instaed of upping cost.
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I agree, but if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure Total Focus has a good stun length on it, so it seems perfectly balanced to my knowledge.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Fair enough.
ok, I'm a lvl 26 Invul / SS tank and I have some things to vent.
1. I hate Knockback. I've been booted from many groups because of interrupting targeting of blasters and controllers with KB.
Haymaker is the WORST! every hit does KB, What's the point of trying to stand and fight if you have to keep running after the guy you're trying to beat?
2. I've remade my tank and am using Boxing instead of Punch because of no KB, but DMG is as low as Jab. so now ripped off of what could be fair attack powers
3. I too feel very ripped off on tank dmg vs. scrapper dmg.
Capt. America is scrapper and does not fight the big guys that Thor does, why? because Thor is a heavy hitting TANK. and Cap would get wiped no matter how fast and agile he is.
How is it that Scrappers can wipe out whole groups of orange conned mobs in a minute while a tank can't stand long?
Sure, tanks are big and slower than scrappers, but they should be able to put out more dmg in one punch that a scrapper does in 2 or 3
In my SG, I've been passed up leveling by scrappers soloing that were 4 levels lower.
Come on now! That's just plain bull.
OK, done venting, but I feel I've just wasted 3 and a half months on this game playing a worthless character. Especially after reading alot of these posts. I wanted to make a Juggernaut type character, but now see that's impossible without alot of unnessisary hassles.
Thank You
King Titan
26 invuln/SS? tank
Virtue server
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In the Training Room, Knockout Blow has had its endurance cost and damage increased to equal Total Focus/Seismic Smash.
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If only Hurl and Foot Stomp gets looked at now so would SS be mostly fixed.
Hurl has too long animation so need it shortened or the damage and recharge upped so that the time spent is more worth it.
Foot Stomp has higher cost and recharge then it should have with its damage, so should either get those reduced or the damage upped.
Gotta disagree with you there Znail.
I think Footstomp is just about where it should be. Especially after the KB changes get implemented.
Hurl could use some tweaks, mostly to animation time (and graphics). I wouldn't touch it's damage though at this point (considering what they did with KO Blow).
Ah, but I only offered increasing damage as an alternative as its an easier change to do then redoing animation.
As for Foot Stomp, I dont have the power myself so can only compare the data from others. Using the pre-issue 2 numbers from Heroplaner:
Its listed as moderate damage, knockback (down now then), 26.5 endurance and 20 second recharge.
Compre this with Tremors moderate damage, knockback, 19.5 endurance and 14 second recharge.
Now these may be wrong, are they?
You should of made Super Strength a Scrapper Primary, as well.
"Way to miss the bus on that one." :P
For that matter, you should of never seperated the melee AT into two AT's. We don't need a meatshield. You could of saved 'meatshields' for the Epic AT thing. Hell, as it stands now, you dont need a Scrapper either. Defender, Controller, Blasters are all you need in a team.
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1. I hate Knockback. I've been booted from many groups because of interrupting targeting of blasters and controllers with KB.
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OK, i hate that excuse. The only people that are affeccted by knockback are (by just little really) melee types. A blaster or controer uses ranged attacks so there is NO reason for them to hate knockback, only way would be if they complain about enemies leaving the radius of an AOE, but AOEs are extremely overpowered, another subject entirely, but entirely a bad reason.
Hell, i remembered once i was on a team of blasters and me t he only tanker... we had an empaty healer that INSISTED i stayed close to the team so that she was able to heal me... can you explain how do i melee and tank if i do that? Same goes for this point of yours, the team is there to act as a team, not so that only AOE blasters do the damage.
Also, IF that was the requirement, you can USE knockback to actualy push strays into the radius instead of pushing them out of the radius. I have done this a few times with my axe tanker that almost always KBs, but if i was kicked out of a team because i got ONE target out of the radius, i would certainly set those to ignore list because they are just min/maxers i dont realy care to play with.
my fast fix for SS?
Drop Jab.
Move punch to our first power, take haymaker second, then taunt, then in the fourth slot where haymaker was give us "crush" same animation as hurl only instead of throwing the concrete we rip up we just bash a guy next to us over the head with it. We'd start at moderate damage instead of minor as well, which would be nice.
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Just if the great god Balance decides it's too powerful now, they could think about losing that part instaed of upping cost.
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I agree, but if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure Total Focus has a good stun length on it, so it seems perfectly balanced to my knowledge.
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Yes TF does have an excellent length of Stun. I've got my TF slotted with 3 Stun Enhancers, 2 Damage and 1 Recharge Reducer. This will stun an even level boss for 20 seconds. Do about 233 damage. And my TF will recharge in 15 seconds.
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Ah, but I only offered increasing damage as an alternative as its an easier change to do then redoing animation.
As for Foot Stomp, I dont have the power myself so can only compare the data from others. Using the pre-issue 2 numbers from Heroplaner:
Its listed as moderate damage, knockback (down now then), 26.5 endurance and 20 second recharge.
Compre this with Tremors moderate damage, knockback, 19.5 endurance and 14 second recharge.
Now these may be wrong, are they?
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That's about right on Footstomp. Don't know the particulars of Tremors personally but it sounds right.
I don't (personally) have to have everything exactly the same as another line. I just like it to be close. Footstomp currently works well (even moreso with the KB changes). I honestly don't see a reason to touch it. Anything you did recharge time or damage wise would just exaserbate the AOE problems this game has (again, in my opinion).
That and the move of KO Blow up to extreme damage, coupled with the fact that you can still pick it up at L20 currently makes the SS build something you can realize offensively a bit sooner. I'm not sure now for those that have tried the new version of KO Blow and Footstomp if they would want to switch its placement now (although Footstomp is a great AOE agro generator as well as doing damage).
My fix would for SS would be simple, just bring it inline with the other tank secondaries. With axe's damage output I'd be quite happy.
Are there some real numbers floating around for unenhanced damage / activation time / recharge rate of super-strength and battleaxe powersets using post-20 characters of the same level? Or is this just based on a feeling you get observing the other two tanker types in action?
Axe is the harder hitting but slower powerset, while super-strength is the weaker but faster hitting one. In the end, if the DPSs are comparable, what exactly is the problem? I dont have the numbers in front of me to tell you that this is true, but I can say that this debate has come up several times now, even in beta, and after the players compared real numbers theyd always seem to come to the conclusion that the overall damage output was comparable. Maybe something has changed since then, but to know for sure youd really need a listing of each power in these two sets using data from two identical level players with no enhancers slotted.
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1. I hate Knockback. I've been booted from many groups because of interrupting targeting of blasters and controllers with KB.
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OK, i hate that excuse. The only people that are affeccted by knockback are (by just little really) melee types. A blaster or controer uses ranged attacks so there is NO reason for them to hate knockback, only way would be if they complain about enemies leaving the radius of an AOE, but AOEs are extremely overpowered, another subject entirely, but entirely a bad reason.
Hell, i remembered once i was on a team of blasters and me t he only tanker... we had an empaty healer that INSISTED i stayed close to the team so that she was able to heal me... can you explain how do i melee and tank if i do that? Same goes for this point of yours, the team is there to act as a team, not so that only AOE blasters do the damage.
Also, IF that was the requirement, you can USE knockback to actualy push strays into the radius instead of pushing them out of the radius. I have done this a few times with my axe tanker that almost always KBs, but if i was kicked out of a team because i got ONE target out of the radius, i would certainly set those to ignore list because they are just min/maxers i dont realy care to play with.
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I completely agree, Lungorthar.
I'd take longer recharge times if it meant I felt like I was a super strong hero. I'm sure most SS tankers would.
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At level 38, the new KB with six damage enhancers can one-shot minions and allows me to down a LT in three blows. With Rage its even nicer. I smacked an even con for 490... I think I went into shock for a little while after that (me, not my tanker).
If its damage + disorient is kept this way, I think the 25 sec timer is quite acceptable.
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I'm of the opinion we could easily drop the "hold" component. Doesn't need a fake knockout part as it can now really knock something out.