Telperion

I'd never considered Stone/ with /SR before. Thinking about it, that might be a lot of fun, and would make a sweet earthbending martial artist, Avatar style.

BillZ, what were you thinking of buildwise? Using one of the Claw/SR builds you've posted in the past, i worked up a version that (i think, still using the old mids) has fist/both mallets, 97% global rech + hasten, and 4.28 end/sec using slotted Superior Conditioning and PP (+end procs in both of those, too).

Another AOE would be nice, but the extra end might be needed for end thirsty attacks. I'm also not sure, attack chain wise, if it's better to keep Stone Fist or Stone Mallet. If the end from Energy Mastery isn't needed, then dropping it and perhaps Stone Mallet for Gloom/Dark Oblit looks mighty nice.

correct, it does not need acc.

Masterminds are completely different from anything heroside, and that would be cool for an experienced player new to vills.

If you do, i HIGHLY recommend using a bind system for pet control. Once learned, it really smooths out the play experience. I prefer the numpad binds Sandolphan put together; you can find them here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=117256

As for what primary/secondary, thugs or bots/traps or dark are all reliably tested and rate high on the butt-kickery meter.

Only thing about MMs right now is their melee/ranged AI has been wonky for a bit; i haven't been spending time with my MMs, but i hear that they always want to run into melee.


Brutes are like scraps; anything/anything will work. I like the early game on a brute much better than on a scrap, because the fury bar is automatic damage enhancement. Good late-game potential too, as all sets benefit from the higher base HP of a brute (compared to scraps), and some sets can take advantage of the MUCH higher HP cap (an IO'ed, accoladed, dull-pain'ed Inv brute can push 3k hp, for example).

hope this helps; have fun being eeeeevil!

Agreed, could be lots of things. Some folks really take their tanking job seriously (or perhaps, inflexibly), seriously enough that they try to extend their control over every single mob they see, regardless of the situation. Maybe he had crappy attacks at that level, and not much else to do. Maybe he saw your health drop once, and thought you could use less heat. Maybe he was annoyed. Hard to tell from outside the situation.

If i'm in a TF and a brute/scrap/tank can go off on their own and survive, and make the mish go faster, go for it, IMO...as long as said soloist doesn't expect the team to save them if things go upside-down for them.

I don't have mids atm, as i'm away from my normal computer, but i'll toss out some points at the risk of echoing what has already been said.

--Ignore s/l/e/n/f/c/psi defense.

--Focus on getting melee/ranged/aoe def to 45%. This is the type of def that your armor toggles give you, and are the type of def bonuses you want to be chasing.

--To that end, Do not slot Kinetic Combats, Reactive Armor, or Rectified Reticle.

--You are wasting slots in Boxing, Phalanx Fighting (def slotting in PF only goes towards def added when in range of teammates), and (i'll argue) with slots devoted to Zepher, and to slots in Physical Perfection.

--Use a steadfast 3% def in deflection, battle agility, or tough.

--Aegis in Tough can give you AoE def. 6 slots of Gaussian's in Build Up will get you 2.5% to each position, as well as other good bonuses.

--In PP, the actual values of the power are kinda low, so you can be fine with a +end proc in there (as well as in stam), unless you need to put uniques in there too, or have extra slots to spare.

--I'd put 2 recharge into Active defense, since it can stack and improve def debuff resist that way.

--As far as slot rearrangement, i'd yank em from boxing, pp, PF, and the 4th slots of LotGs (using the def/end, def/end/rch, and def), and build up from there. Slotting a kismet +6% to-hit unique will help lost accuracy from the LotG bonuses.


Hope that helps. On my fire/shield/blaze, i got mileage out of a ST hold (basilisk's) and a ST ranged attack (thunderstrikes) to help with def. Just food for thought.

Nice testing! Good to see that fury does affect Shield Charge like it should.

Part of what I missed in my earlier post was that all attacks begin at 100% damage, and that is part of the dmg cap total. For Shield Charge, another 300% will cap the power. So...

100% (base damage) + 95% (enh value) + 80% (build up) + 90% (8 foes in AAO) = 365%.

400-365 = 35% from capped dmg. That's only 17 points of fury, which is pretty much a guaranteed with the way fury builds now.

Without build up: 365-80 = 285%.
400-285= 115%
that's about 58 points of fury, still easily attainable and maintainable. Build Up not needed to cap SC damage in normal play.

Most softcapped /shield builds end up with some +damage bonuses from the sets used, which may affect your in-game numbers as well.


And, yes, scrappers tend to get more out of both AAO and SC than brutes with their higher base damage. It was more of an issue before they adjusted the base damage of SC, though. The set is beastly on both ATs.

YES

hurt them STRONG, hurt them PRETTILY!

welcome back, MrPlayskool!

I'd agree with a /wp brute or scrapper...pretty much anything/wp, though for larger groups primaries with more AOE are more fun and effective.

later in the game, my softcapped def melee toons are pretty relaxing to play on lower difficulties. They just don't get hit hard or often enough to matter. This is on an ice/fire tank, fire/shield scrap, claw/invuln scrap.

Drach, this is Grimmloch. We had a short conversation earlier about this, but I figure i'd chime in with my experience for the heck of it.


When I IO'ed my ice/fire tanker, it was right around when Cimorea was still the new shiny. He was the first toon i had IO'ed, and i built for a lot of recharge, mainly; I didn't add in a lick of additional defense. I built with weave, as well as with def in EA, and have been sitting at just under 42% s/l/e/n def for years. I ran a ton of ITFs as lead tank, very aggressively, and i can count on one hand the amount of times that i died from cascading def failiure.

Usually my deaths came from a sucsession of streakbreaker hits, and me not paying attention.

Ice/ has the tools to deal with the inevitable hits and debuffs, but unlike some other sets, you have to be ready to hit Hoarfrost, Hibernate, a luck, or to just jump the hell away for a second.

Other sets have more resists in addition to their def, and/or a faster heal that you know you will be hitting at some point. There's nothing but tank HP, tough's resists (if you took it), and your reaction time to deal with a bad streak on an icer.

If it makes you 'feel' safer to go above softcap with IO bonuses, go for it, it won't hurt you. I don't think it's necessary, though.

I've been fighting lots of carnies on my fire/shield/blaze scrap lately, on tip missions. I run tips at +1/x4 to keep it interesting, and it's the master illusionists that give me pause more than anything. Tactics more than slotting helps me here.

-Blind (the single-target hold) is typed as psi, with no positional. Flash is set as AoE, Spectral Wounds as ranged/psi (all according to redtomax), but between the Illusionist boss and her pets, that's a lot of blinds. A small luck can take some of the edge off, but i usually do that only if there's 2 Master Illusionists in a spawn.

-pets, generally, have a higher base to-hit than normal mobs. That means they cut right through a portion of your defenses, namely both the Dark Servant, and the Phantasm. I'm not sure if her summoned lts have the same quality.

I've taken to assaulting the boss until she summons all her pets, then build up-shield charge-FSC/fireball, and making sure the pets (well, phant and fluffy, manly) are down before focusing again on her. I'm not above running around a corner if i have to, either. Most of the time i stay above half health using this plan, and it's a pretty swift fight.

I haven't used it leveling, but I've been appreciating it both at 50 and exemplared down. It's a good ST dmg boost solo, and on the Synapse I was on today, I felt good that pooting in the boss's face with Scorch was increasing the whole team's damage.

It's not ZOMG, but I feel it's worth taking advantage of.

Finduilas: all good points. I knocked that sample build together pretty quickly, and those would all be good tweaks.

To the OP, hope this all helps!

what they said.

Ice/fire, great combo, i love mine. The powers you took are solid, but the slotting needs work.

--An ice/ tank does not need to slot taunt in anything, really. With 2 aggro auras, and Chilling Embrace ticking so fast, it's utterly unnecessary.

--To that effect, CE is overslotted, Icicles underslotted. CE does fine with the base slot, especially on a leveling build, and Icicles needs end redux.

--Depending on your tanking style, Taunt could be put off till later in the build. I bounced around with combat jumping, using the large radius of Combustion to tank fine for a long time.

--Energy Absorption is WAY underslotted. Ice is great to play on SOs because of this power; you want it slotted for +def, recharge, and some endmod can be nice as well. Ice can softcap itself with Combat Jumping, Weave, and an application of EA even in a small spawn.

--Taunt only needs acc in pvp.

--Tough is really nice to soften the hits that will get through.


Here's my take on it:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.81
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(3), DefBuff-I(3), DefBuff-I(5), DefBuff-I(5)
Level 1: Scorch -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(7), Dmg-I(7), Dmg-I(9), EndRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11), RechRdx-I(13), Heal-I(13), Heal-I(15), Heal-I(21)
Level 4: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(15)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 10: Taunt -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(21), RechRdx-I(23), Taunt-I(23)
Level 12: Combustion -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(17), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(25), EndRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 14: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(29)
Level 16: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(19), DefBuff-I(19), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(34)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), EndMod-I(36), EndMod-I(36), EndMod-I(36)
Level 22: Icicles -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(31), EndRdx-I(37), EndRdx-I(37), Dmg-I(37)
Level 24: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(29), ResDam-I(31), ResDam-I(31), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(33)
Level 26: Weave -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(27), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(39), DefBuff-I(39)
Level 28: Energy Absorption -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), EndRdx-I(39), DefBuff-I(40), DefBuff-I(40), EndMod-I(40)
Level 30: Fire Sword Circle -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(34), Dmg-I(42), Dmg-I(42), RechRdx-I(42), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 32: Hibernate -- Heal-I(A)
Level 35: Incinerate -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(43), Dmg-I(43), Dmg-I(45), RechRdx-I(45), EndRdx-I(50)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(45), Dmg-I(46), Dmg-I(46), EndRdx-I(46), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 41: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(48)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 47: Permafrost -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 49: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run

You don't need to take powers that ruin the blue bar. Powers i've been looking at are alternate travel powers that fit concept, a power like a T9 or self rez that i never took, recall friend for utility, perhaps a 1-or 2-slotted leadership power. Lots of options that can enhance playstyle and concept.

Ice/Fire is my only tank, my first 50, my first IO'ed toon, my first love of defense sets. More of a Scranker feel to the set, Ice/ has enough mitigation on its own that you can welcome /fire's extra damage without worrying.

I really can't say enough good things about the combo. I took mine out again recently, and then cooked up a mid's build that includes perma-hoarfrost at the new HP cap, some psi def, and Darkest Night to help mitigation vs. Ice's weak spots. I look forward to creating it in-game.

I'd say it depends on the toon...and whether or not there's something better to do with those slots.

BillZ has a high hp toon with softcap def, as well as significant mitigation from Shockwave. As he posted, the extra HP from sets and increase in regen probably fills the role that Aid Self would have in another claw/sr build.

Most toons, though, probably don't have the luxury of such high levels of defense, or boatload of hp to leverage health's regen, or flat-out have better ways to mitigate damage or recover hp.

I usually plan out 2 slots for the numina's and miracle uniques, unless I'm playing the rare toon that doesn't have to worry about endurance.

I have several /wp's, brute and scrapper, at 50 & IO'ed, got a 50 claw/invuln scrap, and currently have a lvl 42 claw/sr brute. I'm gonna say go claw/sr.

/WP has awesome layered mitigation, and by stacking defense and HP, can be extremely survivable. It is very vulnerable to debuffs, however, due to it's low debuff resistance, and defense values that can be tough to get high enough to consistantly block debuffs without really specialized builds. Mitigation from the primary helps WP a lot.

Which segways into point 2: Claws has 2 amazing mitigation powers, Focus and Shockwave. Focus plays well with everything; Shockwave, notorious for knockback and scatter, might cause WP more harm than good as you scramble to re-saturate RttC.

/SR is a one-trick pony, but it's a damn good trick. my claw/sr brute is stylishly fast, and i have to keep reminding myself that i can kill or knock around anything i want, because i have no aura to saturate. Debuffs that can't hit me can't hurt me, and SR plays that kind of game better than WP.

WP probably stacks better with team buffs, but SR will work great too. Though you might (will) scatter things with shockwave, your attacks have a taunt component, so unlike scrapper claws/, mobs will still be looking at you when they get up.

SR is slow to mature, but there's a good payoff later on, even when you hit 35% def, which can happen way way before 50. Ultimately, your playstyle will be the judge, so pick what you have the most fun with!

I am in favor of ice for brutes. Cold, flatlined, emotionless killing rage please!

Depending on your goals, IMO nin/SR would be a nice set to min/max.

-Easy to softcap SR can spend more IO bonuses on recharge, which stacks with quickness, and chasing both those goals will give you tons of regen, recovery, and HP. -High DDR means you can always rely on your defense being there, even in the face of massive def debuff.
-An Achilles' Heel proc in Gambler's cut ups your single-target damage, and all that recharge goes a long way for nin/.
-Divine Avalanche will rock for your leveling experience, and you can keep it in the build for IO bonuses, and for ease when/if you malefactor below your def bonus levels.


All that said, take a look at /ninjitsu, too. Less base def in the set, less DDR, caltrops/self heal/blinding powder all create a nimble, 'tricky,' active feel in the playstyle. Caltrops + divine avalanche will probably serve 90% of your pve mitigation needs. Can also be IOed very well, but takes more effort than SR to softcap, and get high recharge at the same time.

Hmm...why kinetic combat in a shield build? Positional def sets always mean more to shields than typed def.

It looks like you achieved softcap def, but in some ways that could be streamlined. I'll see if i can find some time today to post an alternative. I'm more of a Mid's-GED than PhD, but it'll give you some ideas.

The glad armor 3% def is actually available to everyone now, with hero/villain merits. At 35 merits, it's very expensive (compared to what else you could get with those merits) and will take a good chunk of time to aquire.

Totally missed active defense being placed so late. yes, get that at 10.