How good is Health really?

So with the Fitness set becoming inherent in Issue 19, I'm wondering if Health is worth three-slotting with Healing or not.

Currently I usually just pick Health at 16, three-slot it with Healing at 17 and then call it a day. Stamina gets the same treatment at 20/21, of course. Now the problem is that with Fitness becoming inherent, I essentially get three more powers, but I lose four slots for those powers if I three-slot both Health and Stamina.

Now I'll still three-slot Stamina, but I'm wondering if Health really gives enough benefits to be worth three-slotting or if I should really just stick with one Healing Enhancement and call it a day.

Also, please note that I usually only bother with SOs or generic IOs. I know that IO sets can give me some quite nice benefits, but I don't really care enough about that to bother with the necessary marketeering and build-planning. I'm mainly concerned about SO/Generic IO builds here.

I have never put slots in Health except to fit another one of the healing IO uniques.

I usually have 2 one for the miracle unique and one for the numina unique.

I think it depends on the toon. For example, my WP Scrappers and my WP Tanker, were able to slot up Health for additional Regen and did so, increasing their survival by quite a bit.

On a blaster, well, I see the benefit, it's just not as good in the feel of the game, when I could be using those slots elsewhere.

Huh. If I yank the slots from health on my I-19 build I go from 1912 HP and 27.4 HP/sec regen to 1862 HP 21.1 HP/sec regen.

Think I'll stick with 6slotting health, thanks.

Slot it only if you're going to be using the uniques and they're respective bonuses. If the plan is to just throw in some generic healing IOs/SOs then I would just recommend leaving it at 1 slot.

If you don't have any other +regen to stack with, Health alone really doesn't save you from anything especially if you are a squishy.

I mainly just put one unique in if I can afford and put two if I REALLY love the toon.

I think it's handy as a mule for Numina, Miracle, Regenerative Tissue and Panacea uniques and maybe a few set bonuses, but what it adds to a toon all by itself is negligible, in my opinion. If you aren't slotting the special IOs, then just leave it at one and use he slots somewhere else.

Most of my toons have some combination of those uniques, many with only the Numina.

Well I never understand how players can just dismiss Health's bonus like they do, especially considering how they whine and complain about pre-20 play and how they have to lean on rest so much.

As I see it, the power is something to cut downtime. If you've got substantial/cheap healing, then yes you can probably leave just the base slot in Health but if you don't because you're a dominator, or a non-healing controller or you're Invulnerable or Super Reflexes or whatever and you have little or no healing, Health helps a lot and I'll usually put 1 extra slot in it if I have it.

Another thing I don't understand is how people can disregard saving just 1 healing enhancement for Health but will go 3 slotting BU when the 3rd slot will most likely only shave off 2 seconds from the total recharge. It baffles me how messed up players priorities are.

I'd say it depends on the toon...and whether or not there's something better to do with those slots.

BillZ has a high hp toon with softcap def, as well as significant mitigation from Shockwave. As he posted, the extra HP from sets and increase in regen probably fills the role that Aid Self would have in another claw/sr build.

Most toons, though, probably don't have the luxury of such high levels of defense, or boatload of hp to leverage health's regen, or flat-out have better ways to mitigate damage or recover hp.

I usually plan out 2 slots for the numina's and miracle uniques, unless I'm playing the rare toon that doesn't have to worry about endurance.

My /regens (yes regens plural) and my /WP alts may have two at the most in health. Everything else will have 3+ depending on if I need slots in other powers. And like, BillZ, all my /SRs have or will have 6 slotted health for the extra HP, regen, and recovery that comes with frakenslotting numinas, miracles, and the regen tissue unique.

One thing I've noticed when making builds is that, on chars with Fast Healing, you get more regeneration from a second slot in Health than you do a third slot in FH so slotting Health is definately an option even without IOs or sets, but only in some cases IMO. Cases where slotted health can help are;

High HP chars with existing defenses but too many slots (Scrapper, Brute, Tanker)
Unique IOs
IO set bonuses
Regen or Willpower for regen stacking (I view regeneration/+HP similar to defense, in that it get exponentially better the more you have)

I would guess it isn't worth slotting before Fast Healing if you've got it, but it seems to me if that power is already slotted, then there's no reason not to put 6 more slots in Health if you've got the Set IOs for it.

For any character that doesn't have any regeneration powers, much less one that has no healing at all, it can certainly cut your down time between spawns. By comparison, Health is a +40% boost to regeneration, while Fast Healing is +75%.

I'll also add that Rise to the Challenge requires foes around you to operate, and it gives you nothing while you are between spawns. So there's a definate advantage to slotting the passive. (Whether it be Health or Fast Healing) It's not like the Invulnerability or Super Reflexes passives, that are not gaining you anything when you are not being attacked. Passive regeneration is always healing you, unless you are already at full HP.

Okay maybe I didn't explain it very well.

Let's say Fast Healing has 2 slots and Health has 1 slot, the default slot. You level up, one slot goes into an attack and the other can go into Fast Healing or Health. According to Mids (so I may be wrong) it is better to put the extra slot into Health than into Fast Healing, so that both powers have 2 slots each.

The numbers are as follows for a Willpower Tanker using level 50 IOs in Mids:

2 in Fast Healing, 1 in Health: 294% Regeneration in Totals tab
3 in Fast Healing, 1 in Health: 306% Regeneration in Totals tab
2 in Fast Healing, 2 in Health: 311% Regeneration in Totals tab

Sure it's a small difference, but when juggling slots in an expensive build and looking for the highest numbers possible, it's a handy piece of information to have.

I am gonna agree with what others have said and say that it really depends on the character and the focus.

IF you do not have any innate healing/regen abilities, then Health will have a noticeable effect, especially at early levels.
IF your character does have healing or regen abilities, then Health quickly loses its overall effectivess by comparison to them.
IF you choose to focus your character for REGEN, then health becomes a good way to squeeze another chunk of regen into the build. How much does it help ? It all comes down to balancing your character's powers and slots for what you want most.

The short answer: I personally slot nearly all of my toons with 2 slots on Health and put the Miracle proc and the Numina Proc into them. Then call it a day. I have built alot of characters using three slots in health, but at this time, the only characters that I will probably stay with 3+ slots will be my Shield Tanker and my SR scrapper. BOTH of which are focusing IO sets to get as much regen as possible. And due to them being Positional defense focused, can each hit at or near 400% regen through Health/Procs/IOs. Thats damn decent regen if you ask me. And at no real opportunity cost to these characters.

Ok not so short afterall.