Louis_Cipher

Honestly, Invul explains hulk very well. You guys are focus on Hulks ability to heal for almost anything just about instantly. Dull Pain explains this very well. It a huge heal which also makes one tougher right after you hit. Which goes along with fury and hulk getting stronger after entering battle.

So Hulk would be science: SS/Invul with leaping movement power.

This is an age old discussion. I have both a top end WP and Invul brute.

Basicly in the early game WP is much friendlier. Easier to level and more tools to keep you going. If you get thru the earlier levels with invul then you deserve the power that comes later. If you PL'ed well I cant blame ya but you really didnt get the full invul experience.

At the base 50 game they are about the same. Both are tough in their own right but as pointed out above both benefits but WP's con are less obvious. Invul is slight tougher in gagainst most mob but with psi weakness over all is about the same.

50 with a few billion infamy, Invul is unstoppable without unstoppable. Its like granite without the downside. Toss in Darkest night or incarnate powers for psi hole and your god mode.

If you love your brutes go with Invul. The taunt arua keeps your fury up and damage high.

If your not so experiened you should go with WP. Its such a positive set you cant go wrong with it.

Enjoy either way.

I have been running DM/FA/Soul Brute for a while. My favorite brute. End game he is not a challenge. You want to focus first on SL def and then recharge reduction. I have two builds on my. One with a capped S/L and another with def 39 s/l but 5 purple sets for additional recharge. I normally use the 39 Def version. In most groups you are capped and for those rare times your not and need to be you have purples.

I do exceptionally well in high end content. Damage with is oustanding, You have two damage boosts between soul drain and the new Fiery embrace in great. FA balances out DM lack of a pure PBAE nicely, with burn. You drop in to a large spawn, pop FE, soul drain, burn, dark obilteration, DC....everthing dies.

The major upside with DM/FA is all the tools you get. 2 damage boosts, two heals, two end boosts and ton of AEs.

The down side is all those AEs can be cumbersome. Its not as simple as Spamming Footstomp and Patron/epic AE repeatedly. Which has a beauty all its own.

Its a great combo but very squishy until you build you S/L, get KB protection, and Combat jumping for Immb.

I am a big bang for you buck kind of guy. I look for the best balance of the two. I generally Focus on le/Sm or mellee def to the point where I just dont have to think about dying. Then I jack up recharge. I think not having to heal or hit an inspiration gives you more time to focus on SMASH and hence you end up doing more damage when you dont have to be concerned with how much damage you are taking.

This debate could go on for years. Both sets have some weakness but both you can mitigate.

Invul has the Psi hole which can be mitigated at the high end. First any formost if you cap your typed defense, your positional defenses get very solid by defualt. This gives you between 20-30 defence on your positionals, which does infact protect you form psi damage. Some people believe it does not. I would advise them to check the to hit numbers when being attack. Secondly, pick up darkest night for those rare instances were you run in to a problem with PSI. I have it on my Inul brute but never use it because I never need it due to positional defense.

Invul strength is that you get higher resists againt lethal and smashing the most common froms of damage and you get some very base typed defense. The vast majority of the time Invul will be extremely tough.

DA is will known for its END sucking. This can be mitigated in a great number of ways. With physical perfection out there it gets even simpler. KB can be gotten very easy. You can build DA defense right up there and have better balance with resists. DA will be tougher in some situations but not the majority. My first Brute was a dm/da brute it was painful going prior to IOs. With IOs and HAMIs they can be put together very nicely.

At the low end with SO/Generic IOs invul is tougher. At the Higher both are completely unbelievable. If you understand how a set funcutions and toss a few billion into any set you get similair results.

/Cipher

I might WM/Invul- seems pretty brutish. Same basic theory but ss/wp works as well.

DM is a fine set. One of my favorites but not the best AE. However, if pair right it can be very nice. FI like DM/Fa myself. The most damaging AE toggle in blazing aura, helps a ton, combine with new burn and Fiery embrace and soul drain it can be a damage machine.

IF you dont go Fire as you secondary, then you want to take a look at the MU patron/Epic. You get 3 aes out of with good recharge timers, Best is lightning ball, then electric Fences and finally static discharge. With good global recharge you can chain AE nicely.

Finally 5 or 6 AE does not equal Footstomp. You can do well with DM and make it work nicely for you. You get alot of nice tools: Heal, End boost, nice damage boost but you have make it work.

/cipher

DM/FA FTW...is so sweet.

I have to respectfully disagree with Silas.

I have a 50 Dm/Fa brute. One of my two favorite brutes. I went the directions of build insane global recharge. Think I have global at 150 with hasten or maybe more. It was nuts. I still have the build as an alternate on the my brute. I could not tear it down. 5 purples, Lotg gobals. I spent more Infamy on it then i care to think about. Granted this was back when purples were 40 mil a pop and not 200-400mil but still.

Well, when they came out and allowed you have a 2nd build on your toons. I said what the Hell lets see if I can cap s/l on alternate Tankish build. Well I got S/L to 45. Purple build is way more expensive or was before Kinetic combat Sky-rocketed. But i cant go back to it. I want the expensive build to be better but its just not.

The 45 s/l Def is just SO much tougher and I still have 45 Gobal recharge and Hasten. Which is plenty fast.

I hate to say it but you just cant beat def. I say JACK IT UP. Spend much less time concerned with healing yourself and SMASH everything in your way. Think about 45 s/l, Solid Resits(all but immue to fire), two heals, two damage boosters, two end recharges. I tell you its an ABSOLUTE JOY of a toon.

Best of luck,
Cipher

Invul will be the tougher build. My Invul and WP build are both IO'ed out. My WP build is as tuff and my Invul only when he running the SoW. Wp is easier to level and has some nicer End regen. With WP you can run Hasten and Rage easy with super strength if you take the fitness pool. If you dont go with SS then you can skip the Fitness pool and pick up some other powers. I like my DM/WP for that reason.

Its tuff on an invul/ss build to run hasten and rage, like you have it.

In end Invul better striaght up "tanker", Wp more verstile.

Enjoy,
Cipher

I have a few of level 50 brutes, Fire/FA, Dm/Da, SS/FA, Dm/WP, Claw/invul but my two favorites are SS/Invul and Dm/FA. I love all the tools with Dm/FA and you toss on a bunch of s/l set bonus and recharge set bonus/Lotg, just really nice all around. Easy and fun to level. SS/Invul on IO sets is just nuts.


Enjoy,
Cipher

I like Invul but as a far a T9 powers SoW wins hands down and considering most people agree that Invul is a slow developing set and WP is nicer from the get go. Thats odd but true.

I skip on unstoppable because its a trap that make invul toons suck. Once upon a time, when toggles dropped everytime you got KB'ed, stunned or just about anything Unstoppable had some value because atleast it was consistant. However the COX adressed many of the issues that unstoppable protected players from.

Now, The new power sets have been created with the current game in mind. They augment the sets nice without risking death or taking the toon out play. While the have reasonable debuff attached to them, it is not a disabiling one.

The old T9 Powers are just done compare well to the knew and MOST are skippable. I generally skip rise of phen and other res power (now with combine 3 inspirations that is even easier) and unstoppable and power with crash that make so you either die or have to remove yourself from play are just out dated.

On my WP i would never dream of skip Strength of Will and you would be foolish to do so. In contrast many, including myself would say you would be foolish to take powers like unstoppable.

Having said that. A well IO'ed Invul is a awesome to behold. I have both ss/Invul and claws/invul and they are nigh on unkillable. As far as the vaunted PSI hole that can be adressed pretty easily this days. Hell, Darkest night almost does it all by itself.

Invul toons make up the toughest toons out there. Willpower is more playable but at the top end Invul rules.

Enjoy,
Louis Cipher

I will second that. I love my DM/FA. Cap S/L get two heals, 2 damage boosts, 2 end recharges. FA compliments DM lack of Aes. toss in Gloom and Dark obilit, your sooo sweet. All the tools are fun. Loved leveling him and playing him at high levels.

Enjoy,
Cipher

This thread happens every on the verge of every major expansion by the way. Guess you guys just have not gotten the message the last 20 times or so.

I could name like 100 toons in super hero lore that are SS guys, none of which I would call a scrapper. I can think of 100s of toons in superhero lore which are martail artists...none of which I would call a tanker or a brute. Hmmm but you say SS fits scrapper. Umm no. The scrapper hand to hand mellee set is MA. Love it, live it, embrace it.

Enjoy
Cipher

The reason SS has not gone to scrapper is conceptual and not fear of being overpowered. There just some sets that Tankers, Brutes, Scrappers and stalkers are just not going to see, because it goes against the concept of the AT. Tankers and Brutes are not going to see Katana any time soon because a the Katana implies a certain focus and sense calm deadly skill that just does not work for tankers or brutes. The same goes for Martial Arts. Nor will Brutes ever see the cold sets, just does not work with the concept. The Scrapper Concept does not fit with superstrength at all. In the end Martial Arts is the Scrapper version of SS. It Scrappers hand to hand combat. Infact is kind of key to the great battles between the ATs. That scrapper like Wolvie going up against Hulk. Its a key distiction between ATs.

And the arguement- Give it to me because I want it, does not cut it.

Enjoy,
Cipher

Sounds like a great combo to me. High end single target damage, with shield ae plus patron power ae. Vicious.

Good luck with it,
Cipher

I noticed a while back when new IO sets came out that alot of them were "missing" if you will End reduction. When looking at the sets. They gave all the dream IO bonus so it hard not get them and crazy good recharge. After slotting sets like Obliteration with high recharges but a lack of end reduction, I pondered. Could the Devs have decided well, things got a little out of control with the high recharge rate player have and damage they are dealing. We cant do much about recharge but we can cut player ability to concerve and regen end. Then we can give them all the recharge and sweet IO bonus' they can handle but cut back on end and the lack of end will keep them in check. Then I thought well your just being paranoid. They just a good sets with a weakness. Deal with it.

However, I recently read that a "fix" for nums end regen enchanment was being looked at. Well, I did not realize it was broken. Seem to be working fine for my toons. Being a brutaholic end conservation and regen keeps me goin. Sure my few MMs can do without the extra end but not my monsters.

So am I just being paranoid and there is not great plot to decrease our end conservation and regen. Or do you guys have any information about the "Fixes" as such.

Was phase 1 of the war to come out with IO sets with better set bonus and much less end reduction.

Phase 2- nerf current enhancements end sets that boost end regen, like nums, mircle, perfromance shifter.

If there is a phase 3, I am kind of scared of it.

Thanks much,
Cipher

This is a tough one. Should I spend my power choice on a power that will get me killed and that i rarely use or should i spend it on a power that is going to help me out all the time.

Your best bet is DONT buy. Go with another power choice that make you consistantly better. Get demonic aura and dont be shy about using it. It recharges. It a great power and it does not cost you a power choice and will not get you killed. I do dislike powers that get you killed.

Your second best choice. Buy it, have it, feel comfortable with your blanky. Aviod using it.

Your third best choice, use the power and try to mitigate its massive down side by well popping emp, use demonic aura and inspirations, which well using any of those options would have likely solved your problem by themselves but feel free to take the massive damage and end hit because its exciting to risk death for no reason.

Your 4th option, use it, then pop your phase shift temp power. Be out of combat for 30 secs. You get 10 charges of it, so have some stored in your black market section. You wont die, but while you sitting waiting, cross your finger and hope your absence does not get your group mates killed and it should not hurt your damage or fury all that much. I mean fury only takes 30 secs or so to vanish and your out combat well....for exactly 30s. Good for you. But hey, YOU got to live.

Clearly, I think these T9 powers that kill you are a bad buy. Now I am not say they are completely useless. Like they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day. You will eventually see a spot in time where that power will help you out and will be greatful you had in on that day and in that moment. But the other 99.9 percent of the time its useless. If you try to make it a part of your consistant play and use it as a reliable tool, like granite armor or Sow or one w/ shield. Your in for alot of pain.

Quite simply, the buff you get is eye poping, and its a trap designed to make you suck. Clearly the Devs saw this and they adressed it in the newer power sets. I say good for them. It nice to see them evolve t9s to the level of useful.

Enjoy,
Cipher

I run two builds on my DM/FA. One that has 150 Global w/ hasten and the other with 100 global with hasten and 45 S/L. I have all hp and end accolades powers. I have to say the 45 S/L is the is the less expensive build due to a no purples. The 45 S/L is the superior of the two. With the 45 s/l and the two heal is just a great combo. You still take some damage but your heals more then cover it. When the recharge build you end up see alot more damage and it can be struggle to up with the damage with alot of mobs.

Having said that I keep the big recharge build for soloing AV and such because on single target hard hitter, the DM to hit debuff covers alot of what your missing with Def. That and faster recharge on Healing flames and Siphon life is better when going up against a single is nice to have.

Both directions have there strength but for normal group play or farming I find the S/L capped on to be the better choice. If I could only go with one it would be to soft cap s/l.

Enjoy
Cipher

I find its most effective with FA to go with the 45 S/L. Your very durable with 45 s/l, decent resists and healing flame to back you up. You see the biggest bang for your buck. And generally when you get to 45 S/L you generally end up with some decent Positional defense to. You will likely see 30ish melee and 17-25 aoe and ranged just with weave, cj and IO like reactive armor and mocking beratement that add to other areas.

I will say with my FA build I had 42 s/l for a while and I had been planning to get Glads +3 def to cap but just did not want to spend the cash because they are expensive and I was doing fine without it. When I did get it- OMG, what a difference that last 3 percent makes. It makes a alot bigger difference then you would think. Prior to getting the last 3 percent I would have to hit healing flames every time when I engaged 2/8s solo but after getting I can go though a fights easy without having to heal.

Enjoy,
Cipher

I would say more options with Patron level powers, ones that are more theme based. Likes stone, fire and such. More like the heros. Perhaps with Going Rogue they will get heros access to patrons and villians access to hero. That would be cool

Enjoy,
Cipher

Taunt?

Yea seriously. If you play a brute with a taunt toggle with a good taunting toggle like FA or Invul then you taunt is very skippable. If your playing a one without a good taunt ae then you will find that taunt will up your dps greatly in teams.

You build alot faster by getting attack by a bunch of mobs then you could possibly do by punching. If you are low agro build in a group your not going to be anywhere close to your damage potential because mobs die alot faster in group and your fury building will not spike like if your tanking. Your ability to build Fury fast is important in dishing out damage. Hit taunt right away, mobs attack you, your fury spikes=higher brute damage when you fired off your aes. If you burn you big aes in getting the ae agro and well thats one round of aes that went significantly less damage. And in many group i have been in, one round of aes from the team and the vast majority of the mobs are down.

So taunt can be a very useful tool in maintaining your high damage in groups. With going rogue and teaming with scrapper and tankers more, taunt may very will become alot more useful in building your fury and therefore, damage then many brutes think.

Best of Luck,
Cipher

Thats so true Deus.

A brute sees those massive fluxs in damage potential. If you the alpha on the team tanking, then you going to be very happy with your damage. If your not then your playing more of a scrapper role trying to eek out some fury and get the damage up there, you going to be frustrated with your damage.

I think a lot of scrapper see brutes at there best moments and think wow thats not fair but consistantly scrapper compare well with brutes.

If two brutes and a scrapper are playing on a team. One brute is tanking and the scrapper and other brute are dpsing. I am going to say the lead brute will being doing more damage 90 percent of the time. The scrapper will be doing more then the dps brute 90 percent of the time. So the scrapper will be in the middle of those two brutes.

Now, if you add a tanker. Well the tanker will be um...tanking. The two brutes will be dps with the scrapper and the scrapper will be out dps the brutes 90 percent of the time. Clearly, different builds will have differnent results.

I am one of those who beleive the two ATs are well balance and play very when doing what they were ment to do. In the end.

BRUTE
+ higher hp, higher caps, - needing to be the center of attn to do the damage.

You dont get the plus without the minus and with brutes required play style to do damage they need the plus. Scrappers dont.

Its a grass is always greener for both sides. Hey if you think one side gets that big of advantage, well they get very similiar sets and generally if you can make on, you can make it on the other. With going rogue you may get your choose.

Now I know both sides would like a few, "little" change to just to make sure its balanced. Brutes would love for fury to be easier and fast to be build. Check out the brute fourm under what would you wish. They want that scrapper consistancy.

Scrappers want those few extra hp and resist or atleast brutes dropped down to scrapper resist and hp, depending on the post.

Play a scrapper or brute because you like what they offer, both side would like em to offer a little more. Thats always the case. However, neither AT needs any help. Both operate at a very high level. And giving another more to either AT would be a serious snub many other ATs who dont have it as good. Nerf one class to make aother feel superior is ALWAYS wrong.

I have seen it happen in other games where one class whines and complains until another nerfed. Then it happens in reverse. Nobody want to be on the wrong end of the nerf bat.

So in the end, brutes have the same def and resist values on all there powers as scrappers do. Brute get a few extra hp and with the way they play they need it. Brutes get higher Resist Cap(def soft capped really the same) which unless a brute is on a good team and is needed to tank some serious damage most often does not come in to play. So on a general basis, Brute more hp, scrapper more consistant damage. Make your bed guys.

Enjoy,
Cipher

Between brutes and scrappers it comes down to number crunching. In actual game play both are really potent archtypes. Both can own Pve pretty easily and a well IO'ed scrapper or brute can be awe inspiring, turning others green. Now, when you number crunch it brutes "may" come up with statisical edge in pve damage but both have awesome playability. In PVP its a different story. There Scrappers have a clear advadge. Thats not to say they cant compete on the battle field. They can and do but scrapper have more then a 3 percent edge there. Over all both archetypes are fun, extreme playable and two of the most powerful archetypes out there. Since they are both melee dps it only natural for them to jockeying for position. C

Best of Luck,
Cipher

I use to skip both shadowmaul and midnight grasp as well in all my Dm toons but they upped Midnight grasp a while back. It needed it badly. I felt it was by far worst t9 and worst big hitter STA power for a brute in the game. They front loaded alot of its damage and gave it a little boost in damage. Its no KO or Gr. Fire Sword but its a good a attack now. It use to be a joke for a t9 power. I would say grab it and see how you like it.

Best of luck,
Cipher