What percentage defense should i shoot for in sets.
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Originally Posted by Sinistar6000
Hi all,
Im getting close to 28 percent smashing/lethal defense and 30% melee on my fire/fire scrap. I will have tough and healing flames to soak up some damage, however my ranged defense (and some others) is negligible. I know a lot of ranged attacks will have a smashing and lethal component to them so I may be safe. Is my current defense and resist enough to make me ok in all aspects of PVE? If not what % defense should i shoot for? |
You want 45 percent in "something."
Pick either positionals (melee, range, aoe) or typed (all the rest.) Only one kind counts versus each type. IE, a melee lethal attack will take either the melee number or the lethal number, whichever is higher.
Base the choice on your secondary.
You should probably shoot for 45 percent melee and aas much as you can squeeze on the others without gimping yourself.
My recommendation is the following, in rough order of increasing "awesomeness". All the above assume you don't have any in-powerset +defense - if you do, you can probably hit higher numbers.
- ~20% defense in either melee or lethal/smash, ~10-15% other or possibly nothing in other. Almost any build should be able to achieve this with Weave, CJ or Hover, and a few powers slotted with the "good" +Def melee sets, like Touch of Death or Kinetic Combat.
- ~25-30% defense in either melee or lethal/smash, ~20% in other. If To do this you're going to need Weave, CJ, squeeze in +defense sets that give 2.5%, 3.13% or 3.75% defense wherever you can, but if you can't equalize the defense types, probably focus on melee or lethal/smash, depending on what you're building up (positional or typed).
- ~45% in either melee or L/S, and nothing in other postitions. This can very durable, but is potentially prone to sudden collapse due to debuffs from unprotected vectors. In my opinion this works best with typed defense capping L/S defense using Kinetic Combat, because this defends against a lot of bullets, which are a common form of ranged defense debuff tossed out by mobs. There are exceptions, and they'll be painful if you're relying on this defense.
- ~25-30% defense to all positions or types. This is basically going for broke, and you might need to do some unusual things to fit in all the slots you need to raise all your defenses this high all around. Note that this doesn't mean you're gimping yourself in other areas, but you might make some noticable tradeoffs. You don't have enough defense in any position to ensure that debuffs don't land on you, so cascade failure is still a problem, but at least you're more or less well-rounded. This kind of build is actually quite hard to do with typed defense if you don't start with some defense in your powersets. Sometimes this will be better than the previous options, sometimes worse, depending on what you're fighting and what sort of powers they're flinging at you.
- ~45% to all. This isn't generally possible for Scrappers that don't have some defense to start with unless they're using Broadsword/Parry or Katana/Divine Avalanche to cover the melee position and loading up on Blessing of the Zephyr to get the other two positions. If you can do this on top of other mitigation types, you've got something really, really strong to play with.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Very Nice Breakdown UberGuy,
Not much to add, other than 20-25% defense to all positions seems very solid to me, until you start cranking up the mob levels, thats when you start wanting 30% or more to all positions. Personally, I dont have the influence to try and get 40%+ to everything, so for my stable of toons, I am going to get a /SR to 50 (mid-20s currently) in order to hit the 40%+ level of defense. Any other scrapper should be able to hit 20% with ease and 30% with some serious effort.
For the OP,
I have a SG mate that runs a Dark/Dark and has numbers very similar to the ones you are running.
He regularly runs missions at 0 to +2 and at x3 or x4 without too much trouble.
If you are looking to go beyond that level of difficulty, then perhaps more defense would help, but my personal preference is to have 30% to all positions, rather than 45% to one position and 15% or less to Ranged/AoE etc.. This may not be the common wisdom, but I feel more comfortable at that level of defense. Remember, 30% to all positions + Large Purple pill equals softcapped to ALL positions. Grape Chickletts FTW !
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
I find its most effective with FA to go with the 45 S/L. Your very durable with 45 s/l, decent resists and healing flame to back you up. You see the biggest bang for your buck. And generally when you get to 45 S/L you generally end up with some decent Positional defense to. You will likely see 30ish melee and 17-25 aoe and ranged just with weave, cj and IO like reactive armor and mocking beratement that add to other areas.
I will say with my FA build I had 42 s/l for a while and I had been planning to get Glads +3 def to cap but just did not want to spend the cash because they are expensive and I was doing fine without it. When I did get it- OMG, what a difference that last 3 percent makes. It makes a alot bigger difference then you would think. Prior to getting the last 3 percent I would have to hit healing flames every time when I engaged 2/8s solo but after getting I can go though a fights easy without having to heal.
Enjoy,
Cipher
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As far as I know, only Dark Armor can do this (complete softcap to positional) with one of the sword sets. | ~45% to all. This isn't generally possible for Scrappers that don't have some defense to start with unless they're using Broadsword/Parry or Katana/Divine Avalanche to cover the melee position and loading up on Blessing of the Zephyr to get the other two positions. If you can do this on top of other mitigation types, you've got something really, really strong to play with. |
Fire and Electric can get to around 38-40% but I couldn't squeeze in enough defense without Cloak of Darkness (gives the same value as Weave)
I've tried all 3 resistance sets. Invuln is fairly easy (since you want typed rather than positional anyway) Neither Fire or Electric can softcap to everything on any build I have ever seen or attempted.
If you manage to pull it off, please share how you did it, because I would like to see it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Nope, I haven't. I didn't mean to suggest it's possible for arbitrary sets using Katana or Broadsword. I think I just merged two semi-related thoughts: it's not generally possible, but it's possible with Katana | Broadsword. I should have been more clear that even then it's not always possible.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I haven't done it, but I suspect it is possible. What I'm thinking is that you soft capped Dark Armor without the PvP +3% defense. So there's 3% of the 6% we're trying to make up from losing Cloak of Darkness. Yeah, it's tough to pick up another 3%, but there ARE options. For instance, drop Fitness for Hover. Figure out how to power everything with Conserve Power and Physical Perfection. Pop blues in long fights. Might not be an ideal build, but it sounds possible and playable.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
If you manage to pull it off, please share how you did it, because I would like to see it.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Originally Posted by Werner
I haven't done it, but I suspect it is possible. What I'm thinking is that you soft capped Dark Armor without the PvP +3% defense. So there's 3% of the 6% we're trying to make up from losing Cloak of Darkness. Yeah, it's tough to pick up another 3%, but there ARE options. For instance, drop Fitness for Hover. Figure out how to power everything with Conserve Power and Physical Perfection. Pop blues in long fights. Might not be an ideal build, but it sounds possible and playable.
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CJ+Hover+Manuevers+Weave.
Works frighteningly well on a WP, and might be almost as nice on an Elec or Dark.
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Hm, that cuts out both Hasten and Stamina.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Works frighteningly well on a WP, and might be almost as nice on an Elec or Dark.
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My new DB/Regen is sans Stamina, and I bailed on Maneuvers in my build once I saw the change to the +Recovery uniques. (Right now just Numi, but I suspect Miracles are on the horizon.) With just PP, two PShifters, QR and both +Recovery uniques, I was borderline on my end burn. Maneuvers would have pushed me places I didn't want to go.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Yes it does. Hasten kills your end, and does nothing for your defense. Defense specced scraps need to give up something, and it's perfectly doable to make a workmanlike attack chain with four attacks without hasten or even much in the way of global recharge.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Hm, that cuts out both Hasten and Stamina.
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| My new DB/Regen is sans Stamina, and I bailed on Maneuvers in my build once I saw the change to the +Recovery uniques. (Right now just Numi, but I suspect Miracles are on the horizon.) |
? Have I missed something?
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| With just PP, two PShifters, QR and both +Recovery uniques, I was borderline on my end burn. Maneuvers would have pushed me places I didn't want to go. |
Problem solved.
In all seriousness, defensive oriented scrappers are wonderful teaming toons, they serve as extremely effective buff magnifiers. Plus, having the leadership pool for manuevers makes YOU a buffer too! Win!
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For that I just take one of the builds that's got around 30% defense and let the buffers get the rest. I'd far rather be pretty tough but a sustained killer solo and unkillable on a team, than unkillable but low recovery while solo and want end/recovery buffs on a team.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
In all seriousness, defensive oriented scrappers are wonderful teaming toons, they serve as extremely effective buff magnifiers. Plus, having the leadership pool for manuevers makes YOU a buffer too! Win!
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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On live right now you can enhance the buff from the recovery uniques by slotting them in powers you also enhance with endmod. On test, that's "fixed" for Numina (only).
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Have I missed something?
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
On a Dark Armor, you don't need Hover to pull it off, so you can take Fitness. On an Electric Armor, you get Power Sink. On a Fiery Aura, you get Consume. Wasn't really thinking about that when I was thinking they'd have endurance problems. So yeah, might be practical to skip Fitness for Hover, though I haven't actually plugged in a build like that to see how it looks. But you might be able to pull off a soft-capped Katana/Electric or Katana/Fire without horrible compromises. Not sure if it's the best approach, even just for survivability, but it's an interesting thought.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
CJ+Hover+Manuevers+Weave.
Works frighteningly well on a WP, and might be almost as nice on an Elec or Dark. |
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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...does that count the Gladiator unique? Ehn, the price on that....|
Originally Posted by Werner
On a Dark Armor, you don't need Hover to pull it off, so you can take Fitness.
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On a Dark, might be worth it. Stamina is teh nice, although it is becoming less so.
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| On an Electric Armor, you get Power Sink. On a Fiery Aura, you get Consume. Wasn't really thinking about that when I was thinking they'd have endurance problems. So yeah, might be practical to skip Fitness for Hover, though I haven't actually plugged in a build like that to see how it looks. |
Hover is really, really nice.
Heck, simply having the OPTION to skip Fitness is teh nice.Quote:
| But you might be able to pull off a soft-capped Katana/Electric or Katana/Fire without horrible compromises. Not sure if it's the best approach, even just for survivability, but it's an interesting thought. |
I haven't refined this to make it playable... but here's a quick demonstration of what's possible.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Scorch -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(5), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(5), T'Death-Dam%:40(11)
Level 1: Charged Armor -- GA-3defTpProc:50(A)
Level 2: Cremate -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(17), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(23), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(27), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(27), T'Death-Dam%:40(29)
Level 4: Lightning Field -- Oblit-Dmg:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(37), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), Oblit-%Dam:50(43)
Level 6: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(7), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(7), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(9), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(9), GSFC-Build%:50(11)
Level 8: Conductive Shield -- Aegis-ResDam:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(46), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(48)
Level 10: Static Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Boxing -- RzDz-Acc/Rchg:30(A), RzDz-EndRdx/Stun:30(13), RzDz-Acc/EndRdx:30(13), RzDz-Stun/Rng:30(15), RzDz-Acc/Stun/Rchg:30(15), RzDz-Immob%:30(17)
Level 14: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
Level 16: Grounded -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Hover -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(19), Zephyr-ResKB:50(19), HO:Enzym(21), HO:Enzym(21)
Level 20: Energize -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Weave -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(23)
Level 24: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(25), Zephyr-ResKB:50(25)
Level 26: Incinerate -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(29), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(31), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(34), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(34), T'Death-Dam%:40(36)
Level 28: Lightning Reflexes -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Group Fly -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(31), Zephyr-ResKB:50(31)
Level 32: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(33), Zephyr-ResKB:50(33), HO:Enzym(33), HO:Enzym(34)
Level 35: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(36), Zephyr-ResKB:50(36)
Level 38: Power Surge -- Lock-Acc/Hold:50(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg:50(39), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(39), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(39), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(40), Lock-%Hold:50(40)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:50(42), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg:50(42), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(42), RedFtn-Def:50(43), RedFtn-EndRdx:50(43)
Level 44: Fire Sword Circle -- Oblit-Dmg:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(45), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46), Oblit-%Dam:50(46)
Level 47: [Empty] -- Empty(A)
Level 49: [Empty] -- Empty(A), Empty(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Code:
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Edited to add data chunk because links never work for me.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
Nice job! If it's possible without Parry or Divine Avalanche on an Electric Armor, then it's probably possible on any combination. Advisable is a different question, but possible, definitely. And it looks like you left a lot of room for tuning in the build. Might even be enough room left to make it practical.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
lol @ enzymes in CJ
thats a bug im guessing?
looks like its giving def its not rly sposed to in mids
Quote:
Mid's is accurately representing what slotting enzymes in defense powers do in game.
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Originally Posted by Wuigly Squigly
lol @ enzymes in CJ
thats a bug im guessing? looks like its giving def its not rly sposed to in mids |
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
shred you are hax.
I am PL in RL.
Freedom- Magnet Man, Hott Sauce, Stand-Up Comic
Hi all,
Im getting close to 28 percent smashing/lethal defense and 30% melee on my fire/fire scrap.
I will have tough and healing flames to soak up some damage, however my ranged defense (and some others) is negligible.
I know a lot of ranged attacks will have a smashing and lethal component to them so I may be safe.
Is my current defense and resist enough to make me ok in all aspects of PVE?
If not what % defense should i shoot for?
I am PL in RL.
Freedom- Magnet Man, Hott Sauce, Stand-Up Comic