I honestly hope we haven't given up already. Have you given up?
By
Ael Rhiana,
Posted on: 2012-11-08 17:31 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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If the same thinking the naysayers apply to saving CoH were applied here though, that would be pointless. As certain people are so fond of pointing out, the CoH community is too small to be of any relevance.
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
It would make sense, actually. I had never heard of this Lackey chick before everyone said "omg! Mercedes Lackey wants CoH saved!" But now I'm aware of her existence. And I'm sure a lot of goodwill will be going towards her after CoH dies, and that may just translate to higher book sales. It's a good marketing scheme, if true.
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
It would make sense, actually. I had never heard of this Lackey chick before everyone said "omg! Mercedes Lackey wants CoH saved!" But now I'm aware of her existence. And I'm sure a lot of goodwill will be going towards her after CoH dies, and that may just translate to higher book sales. It's a good marketing scheme, if true.
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I've read enough of the Titan Forums to know that Ms. Lackey's love of COH is genuine. And it's not like there are so many COH fans that'd be worth faking it.
My COX Fanfiction:
Blue's Assembled Story Links
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The number of CoH fans is like light, if you make a "insignificant" statement, the community is insignificant, if you make a "significant" statement, the community is significant. So like light is both a particle and a wave, the CoH community is both insignificant and significant at the same time.
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Originally Posted by BlueBattler
I've read enough of the Titan Forums to know that Ms. Lackey's love of COH is genuine. And it's not like there are so many COH fans that'd be worth faking it.
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We're talking about sheer numbers here. People laugh at CoH fans efforts to save the game because they are too few to be worth it for NCsoft to sell to. Why would it be any different for an author?
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Originally Posted by Ogi
The number of CoH fans is like light, if you make a "insignificant" statement, the community is insignificant, if you make a "significant" statement, the community is significant. So like light is both a particle and a wave, the CoH community is both insignificant and significant at the same time.
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Honestly... yeah I have kind of given up. The final nail in the coffin was when I learned that all of the game's staff have moved on and gotten jobs elsewhere. Once you hit that point, there isn't any coming back.
TPN trial guide video / MoM trial guide video / DD trial guide video / BAF trial guide video
/ Lambda trial guide video / Keyes trial guide video / Magisterium trial guide video / Underground trial guide
I am not saying ANYTHING bad against ML with this statement - it is a GENERAL statement.
If I were not a well known author and I sold X amount of books... X+100 would still be more books I sold and more money in my pocket. Free advertising is the best advertising because even if it only gains you 1% in sales...it still cost you nothing. So yeah "advertising" to a small group of people would/could make a minor or significant impact on sales depending on how many books you were already selling.
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And NO I do not think ML is using the CoH "movement" to advertise her books. I did look her up when the whole SAVE movement started to see what kind of author she was as I had never heard of her.
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
We're talking about sheer numbers here. People laugh at CoH fans efforts to save the game because they are too few to be worth it for NCsoft to sell to. Why would it be any different for an author?
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Because the person making the "point" needs there to be enough to make their "point" credible (the validity of the point itself aside, a digital distribution only niche author might have been a better subject, one that has dead tree versions that listed on best seller lists... not so much).|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
We're talking about sheer numbers here. People laugh at CoH fans efforts to save the game because they are too few to be worth it for NCsoft to sell to. Why would it be any different for an author?
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| I had never heard of this Lackey chick before everyone said "omg! Mercedes Lackey wants CoH saved!" |
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I've been reading her novels for about ten years now. (I have two of her Valdemar trilogies, Arrows of the Queen and the Mage Storms)|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
It would make sense, actually. I had never heard of this Lackey chick before everyone said "omg! Mercedes Lackey wants CoH saved!" But now I'm aware of her existence. And I'm sure a lot of goodwill will be going towards her after CoH dies, and that may just translate to higher book sales. It's a good marketing scheme, if true.
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She also has her name on several of the "Developer's Choice" AE arcs. She is definitely a long-time player, and even has a series of stories based on her CoH characters (the Secret World Chronicles, not to be confused with the unrelated MMO The Secret World).
When a petition to Save CoH is sitting at less than 22k signatures after 2 months....I can see why people are saying that the movement is small. 22k people is not a large number for a game that has had what... 500,000 total players in it's life? So only 5% of the people who have EVER played CoH could be bothered to go click a few buttons in a 2 month period? Even with the "massive" amounts (their words not mine) of coverage the movement has had...directing people to the petition...still 22k??
If I were a company interested in purchasing CoH that alone would make me become disinterested. Need more proof that the CoH base has eroded to even smaller numbers... look at the Real World Hero charity this year compared to last year..or the year before. Look at the number of people logged into Titan at any given time: Most Online Ever: 247 (February 15, 2011, 11:39:49 pm)...This isn't me being a jerk - it is me showing you the truth of the situation: the numbers just aren't there. A huge percentage of the player base has moved on and the game isn't even closed. A huge percentage of the player base has no interest in Titan or their efforts. So yeah sheer numbers tell the true story.
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
We're talking about sheer numbers here. People laugh at CoH fans efforts to save the game because they are too few to be worth it for NCsoft to sell to. Why would it be any different for an author?
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
And people just cruise by the question I asked.
They say "Find another game! CoH just stole stuff from other games! You'd be surprised how much CoH was just stealing the bad stuff from those games!" Then I make a list of what I enjoyed about CoH and would want in a replacement, and ask what game they're talking about, the one that does all those things better than CoH. And then those same people suddenly stop responding to me. Did you think the question was rhetorical? It wasn't. If you point me to a game that does even half of that list better than CoH (and runs on a Mac - that item on the list is not optional) I'll happily go check it out. |
No lie, that question looks a set up for someone to suggest a game and for you to shoot it down immediately.
If you are serious about the question, I would say Champions Online, but there is no super villains and a few minot features are missing. But some of the stuff you listed there doesnt seem to describe COX. I guess it depends on how it is looked at and personal preference.
But it's look like you are not looking for a replacement but another games that is exactly like COX down to the teeth which isnt going to happen even if COX is recreated or Plan Z comes to fruitation. But majority, of those thing CO does better.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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That is the real nail in the coffin. If you were to buy CoH now you would need to staff up and then spend at least a good 3-6* months while the new people learned the codebase, before you could even start moving forward.|
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
Honestly... yeah I have kind of given up. The final nail in the coffin was when I learned that all of the game's staff have moved on and gotten jobs elsewhere. Once you hit that point, there isn't any coming back.
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*Yes I am an incorrigible optimist.
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I think you missed my point. The implication was that Mercedes Lackey was trying to cash in on the CoH campaign in an effort to sell books. Considering the size of the community, that just doesn't make sense. It might for a noob author trying to get established, but that is not Mercedes.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
When a petition to Save CoH is sitting at less than 22k signatures after 2 months....I can see why people are saying that the movement is small. 22k people is not a large number for a game that has had what... 500,000 total players in it's life? So only 5% of the people who have EVER played CoH could be bothered to go click a few buttons in a 2 month period? Even with the "massive" amounts (their words not mine) of coverage the movement has had...directing people to the petition...still 22k?? [snip]
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Makes my point that we had a case of the gamblers con going on*. You had a very large base come in and what was left were just the people that didn't see failures as failures. |
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
When a petition to Save CoH is sitting at less than 22k signatures after 2 months....I can see why people are saying that the movement is small. 22k people is not a large number for a game that has had what... 500,000 total players in it's life? So only 5% of the people who have EVER played CoH could be bothered to go click a few buttons in a 2 month period? Even with the "massive" amounts (their words not mine) of coverage the movement has had...directing people to the petition...still 22k??
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*The gamblers con, is a swindle where you make yes/no predictions to an initial large amount of people. You always divide the set of marks in two groups and make opposing predictions to each group. At the end, you have a group of devout believers who are easily fleeced.
Well she is no Stephen King, Danielle Steele, Dean Koontz etc... you know authors most people have heard of. I had never heard about her before the Save movement. And like I said: I am not saying she used the Save movement to sell books. BUT like I also said for any author more awareness; even from a small group of people, is still more awareness. If I have a product that only 20,000 people know about but then just by showing up somewhere 100 more people are aware of it; that's potentially 100 more people buying my product. Sure that may seem small to some people, but if half of those people buy my product...that is still 50 new customers. I am aware (thanks to wkikipedia) that she is not a noob author, but she is also not a million+ per book author - so any advertisement is good advertisement if it brings in a few more book sales.
(AGAIN I am not saying that is why she is involved in the Save movement...just stating that ANY advertisement or awareness of her; no matter how small, can only help her book sales). Heck I almost bought one of her books, but in the end decided not to due to it not really being the genre of books I like to read.
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
I think you missed my point. The implication was that Mercedes Lackey was trying to cash in on the CoH campaign in an effort to sell books. Considering the size of the community, that just doesn't make sense. It might for a noob author trying to get established, but that is not Mercedes.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Hey, if a hundred more people read my books because I galloped around on a white horse trying to use my "fame" - such as it is - to "save CoH", that'd be time well spent. I bet I could at least get a few Subway sandwiches out of it.
| I think you missed my point. The implication was that Mercedes Lackey was trying to cash in on the CoH campaign in an effort to sell books. Considering the size of the community, that just doesn't make sense. It might for a noob author trying to get established, but that is not Mercedes. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
yeah.
But we are missing the My little pony pics. |
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Curse you.
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Originally Posted by Black Zot
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Ok, I think Plan Z isn't going anywhere, but I think you are just having fun now.
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Hey, if a hundred more people read my books because I galloped around on a white horse trying to use my "fame" - such as it is - to "save CoH", that'd be time well spent. I bet I could at least get a few Subway sandwiches out of it.
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My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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In case you're not aware of this, she actually has been playing CoH for years. She, like a lot of us, is upset that NCSoft suddenly shut the game down. Just because she's a New York Times Best Selling author, doesn't mean that she can't work towards getting CoH back because she enjoyed playing it..|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
It would make sense, actually. I had never heard of this Lackey chick before everyone said "omg! Mercedes Lackey wants CoH saved!" But now I'm aware of her existence. And I'm sure a lot of goodwill will be going towards her after CoH dies, and that may just translate to higher book sales. It's a good marketing scheme, if true.
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And I've been buying her books for decades.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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As one of the people who agrees with NCsoft's decision to get rid of a game that was profiting, you're only making yourself look like a hypocrite.
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Hey, if a hundred more people read my books because I galloped around on a white horse trying to use my "fame" - such as it is - to "save CoH", that'd be time well spent. I bet I could at least get a few Subway sandwiches out of it.
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Ah now we have everything.
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Originally Posted by Black Zot
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Two points.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
It took you how long to finally say that? Well hope you feel better getting thta off ya chest. Should of grew some nuts a long time ago and just come on out and said it instead of waiting until the end like a coward. Well, better late than never.
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1: No balls. I am female.
2: Unlike you, I have standards with what I say, even online. Also, I have standards with the amount of grammar in my posts. But more to the point: I care about my image online. I care about what people think of me (to a degree). And, most importantly, I care about this community.
I don't think you care about this community. I think you are a waste of space in these forums. Every single post of yours is either wrong or inflammatory.
I love this community. I hate what you do to us.
@Rien
I am Lord Omi. Now and forever. They can take our City, but they can't take me.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Ah now we have everything.
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apparently then, you havent read all of my posts only the ones that you find wrong. Says a lot about you. And talk about standards, I guess your standards went out the window all of a sudden? Where is your so called standards now? I dont think you had any to begin with. |
Originally Posted by GreatRock
Two points.
1: No balls. I am female. 2: Unlike you, I have standards with what I say, even online. Also, I have standards with the amount of grammar in my posts. But more to the point: I care about my image online. I care about what people think of me (to a degree). And, most importantly, I care about this community. I don't think you care about this community. I think you are a waste of space in these forums. Every single post of yours is either wrong or inflammatory. I love this community. I hate what you do to us. |
Then I guess the proper term would have been, "why didnt you have the sand to say this earlier?" Your standards no longer apply? Says alot about your standards. Funny you mention about me being inflammatory but your first response to me, when I wasnt even talking about you, or to you, is inflammatory. Go figure. Is being a hypocrite part of your standards? Lecture someone abiut being inflammatory and how you dont like them but turn around, out of the blue, and do the same? If those are your standards there, I'm glad I dotn have your standards you can keep them.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Given up on CoX being saved? Absolutely. The Monday after it was announced it became too late to save it. Folks were already looking for work and some had likely already found potential employers.
People have said that they won't buy another NCSoft product, etc, etc. So, would you go back to work for them?
I'm playing SWtOR (going F2P shortly), Rift, and I play WoW with a close friend (which is the only reason I play it at all). Do any of them come close to CoX? No, but they all have things that are individual reasons why I stuck with CoX for as long as I did.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8