Posi Confirms: COH Largest and Most Active MMO Ever Shut Down
By
Adar_ICT,
Posted on: 2012-10-29 18:54 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I'm surprised you were able to remove your head from someone else's rear long enough to look that up.|
Originally Posted by Codewalker
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem
An example: "Oh, hey, Shillig finally showed up. Now the trifecta is complete." |
There's another.
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Well from what I gather about the posting, I thought it would not be of any benefit to them. And as I said i nthe first posting about the topic, I dont see a game company making games where they dotn feel the risk would be worth it or to no benefit for them especially if a game doesnt go as well as they thought and end up losing everything with no form of compensation with that law.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Hyperbole should only be wielded by competent individuals.
Probably nothing. But that has nothing to do with anything I posted. Again. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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More evasion and ad hom.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
On the contrary, I'm pretty sure my point was conveyed with a high degree of precision. The fact that you judge it to not be so is not especially noteworthy.
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Bravo.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
I'm surprised you were able to remove your head from someone else's rear long enough to look that up.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
More evasion and ad hom.
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Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
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I was just demonstrating to Codemoron that I knew what an ad hominem was.|
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
On the same page even.
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Just to, you know, follow up his.
Oh look, there's another.
I love you too, man.
I always find discussions using both Deductive and Inductive reasoning rather amusing. Especially when those using Inductive reasoning believe they're using Deductive reasoning, when they're blatantly not.
Carry on.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Who cares what's in it for them, how MMOs work is NOT how video games traditionally work even for PC games. It's a relatively new thing to not be able to play games offline as far as history of video games goes. How MMOs are run seems like a den of snakes are in charge most of the time doing shady business practices to get the best tax write off.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
OK. So again. What is in it for the company to keep a game running, even if it's hurting their profits, or want to use the resources elsewhere or want to cut back? |
It really gives the video game industry a bad name and I hope to hell it changes soon but if not console gaming has hit the dream age for online play so I'm set.
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Again, you're forgetting the entire issue of this particular game being (and why we're having this conversation within this particular thread) the most active game to be shut down.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Yea shouldnt just avoid countries with Aparteid (the shutdown) but whats going on here is not that aparteid is a problem but the real question is why wasnt it an issue when it was happening to other games in other parts(other ncsoft games that have been shutdown) of ther country(NCSoft) but is a big problem when it happens in this part of the country(COX)?
Why wasnt the issue addressed then? Or why no speak out against it then like now? Why was apathy appropriate then but not now? This what makes it seem lees so than people caring about NCSoft done and more so it's only a problem because how dare them shutdown the game they are currently playing. If aparteid was THAT much of a big deal and so wrong then it should have been addressed a long time ago instead of not giving a crap as long and treated as if it was the proper thing to do but when it happens here it's the most villainous thing that could ever happen to a person. |
This game was going well. The Developing company was pounding out things (that the paying customers were quite excited to receive) like the end was certainly no where near.
The other games, from what I understand, were not doing well.
That is the main point that should not be dismissed every time people begin to argue other specifics.
As for myself, I was not informed/educated about what NCSOft was doing anywhere else. I don't know jack about pretty much any other game these days. I just played CoH and mostly had blinders on to everything else.
Regardless, from what I understand, other games failed pretty much from the get-go. There didn't seem to be a major problem with the shutdowns. There may have been... but it wasn't widely known, at the very least.
We've certainly brought attention to questionable behavior with the closing of CoH though. Whether or not there were problems before this and whether any other communities deserved better does not, for one second, make any attempt to do the right thing now less sensible or right.
No one cared before, so why bother now? Hehe, that's just silly.
I understand if you're trying to pain people here as simply being selfish and not caring about other games and other communities, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who only followed my own game.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
[Note: This message is not From LadyGrim, but rather the original owner of the account. She left the game and forums as she stated. I've just seen enough to put my two cents in here.]
What I don't understand is why we have this little collective of individuals that seem to think it is their place to tell us, over and over in several posts, that we are wrong for being upset over the closure of the game.
NcSoft made a business decision, yes. They handled that decision's execution poorly. Like it or not the day they handed out the news is suspect. Augst 31st was the first full weekend of Guild Wars 2 (preorders only played the weekend before). It was also Labor Day Weekend and PAX. By Tuesday the announcement was buried under coverage. Was this a wise business tactic, yes. For the players and Dev team though, it's bad because it didn't allow for the closing news to get the voice it could have had.
Stating over and over that it's just a game, move on, is not helping matters and it makes you look rather small and petty. Yes, it was a game, but it was a game doing well, in its own right and the communtiy surrounding it (which includes the Devs) is hurt because it "is" (whether you like it or not) like part of our family was permanently injured.
Statements that the Devs knew it was coming are wrong because of what was stated at the beginning of this thread. Any speculation to the contrary is merely conspiracy theorim unless one of the many Devs that has stated otherwise comes forward suddenly to retract that they weren't as surprised as the players.
Bad mouthing SaveCoH when it has done so much for charities because of all this is, to me, a horrendous travesty. SaveCoH has been lauded for its maturity in its actions. And before you bring up emulators, they have also stated, over and over, they are not working on it in conjunction with Plan Z and they are even distancing themselves from it, at this point.
As to why we trusted NcSoft after what they've done to other games, we haven't. We trusted Paragon Studios. If NcSoft had replaced the Dev team when they bought the game we probably wouldn't be here discussing any of this at the moment. The Paragon Devs asked for our trust, not NcSoft, and they never steered us wrong. And before the snide comment about "until the closure of the game", again, they were taken as surprise as we were.
Your opinions are, just that, yours. Tauting them over and over and over in every thread you can find a spark is tantamount to ridiculous and severely lacking in character. If you're happy with NcSoft's decision, fine, let it drop. Go play their other games. Spouting your opinion on the matter won't change the minds of this community or SaveCoH. Stop trying to portray us as "whiney brats" when several sources have praised us for our actions, including our work for charities in the face of the closure.
We are losing an MMO home and while it's true we could simply move the community, sadly, that won't happen. Some will go to other MMOs, others will stop playing MMOs, and a few will stop gaming all together. And that's what hurts. The heart of our community, the Devs, was ripped from us and we're being told (again by a select few) it's not okay to grieve, it's not okay to try and get the game in someone else's hands, it's not ok to considder it an injustice. Well to that select group, it's your opinion, and if you're fine with it, please, just move on.
And yet people still buy MMOs...millions of people. So it only matters when it affects their game...or?
Did people really think CoH was going to be around 20 years? I consider 8 years to be quite an achievement personally; especially when compared to the life of some other MMOs. I HIGHLY doubt either CO or DCUO will see as much life; I fear their time is coming much sooner than people want to think/admit.
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
Who cares what's in it for them, how MMOs work is NOT how video games traditionally work even for PC games. It's a relatively new thing to not be able to play games offline as far as history of video games goes. How MMOs are run seems like a den of snakes are in charge most of the time doing shady business practices to get the best tax write off.
It really gives the video game industry a bad name and I hope to hell it changes soon but if not console gaming has hit the dream age for online play so I'm set. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Interesting points.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Again, you're forgetting the entire issue of this particular game being (and why we're having this conversation within this particular thread) the most active game to be shut down.
This game was going well. The Developing company was pounding out things (that the paying customers were quite excited to receive) like the end was certainly no where near. The other games, from what I understand, were not doing well. That is the main point that should not be dismissed every time people begin to argue other specifics. As for myself, I was not informed/educated about what NCSOft was doing anywhere else. I don't know jack about pretty much any other game these days. I just played CoH and mostly had blinders on to everything else. Regardless, from what I understand, other games failed pretty much from the get-go. There didn't seem to be a major problem with the shutdowns. There may have been... but it wasn't widely known, at the very least. We've certainly brought attention to questionable behavior with the closing of CoH though. Whether or not there were problems before this and whether any other communities deserved better does not, for one second, make any attempt to do the right thing now less sensible or right. No one cared before, so why bother now? Hehe, that's just silly. I understand if you're trying to pain people here as simply being selfish and not caring about other games and other communities, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who only followed my own game. |
And maybe many more didnt know the about the other games until after the fact. Very much possible yes.
So really the only true odd game that wasnt dead yet that they killed was COX?
It did come off as selfish actually like the only reason they are downing NCSoft every other thread is because they killed "this" game. Prior to the announcement any negative comment about NCSoft was shouted down by many of the same people that is on their case now, especially when it can to talking about NCSoft past. My, how times has changed. Hmm, that clears somethings up. Thanks for answering the questions without the insults. Appreciate it.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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It's a two way street and you're right we have a right to opinion even if it's against SaveCOH. Want people to stop trying to portray you all as whiney brats, we would appreciate it if you all stop trying to portray anyone who dont go along and join saveCOH and praise them is a troll, NCSoft employee, and calling us every name under the sun that they can think of for also stating our opinion. |
Originally Posted by LadyGrimrose
[Note: This message is not From LadyGrim, but rather the original owner of the account. She left the game and forums as she stated. I've just seen enough to put my two cents in here.]
What I don't understand is why we have this little collective of individuals that seem to think it is their place to tell us, over and over in several posts, that we are wrong for being upset over the closure of the game. NcSoft made a business decision, yes. They handled that decision's execution poorly. Like it or not the day they handed out the news is suspect. Augst 31st was the first full weekend of Guild Wars 2 (preorders only played the weekend before). It was also Labor Day Weekend and PAX. By Tuesday the announcement was buried under coverage. Was this a wise business tactic, yes. For the players and Dev team though, it's bad because it didn't allow for the closing news to get the voice it could have had. Stating over and over that it's just a game, move on, is not helping matters and it makes you look rather small and petty. Yes, it was a game, but it was a game doing well, in its own right and the communtiy surrounding it (which includes the Devs) is hurt because it "is" (whether you like it or not) like part of our family was permanently injured. Statements that the Devs knew it was coming are wrong because of what was stated at the beginning of this thread. Any speculation to the contrary is merely conspiracy theorim unless one of the many Devs that has stated otherwise comes forward suddenly to retract that they weren't as surprised as the players. Bad mouthing SaveCoH when it has done so much for charities because of all this is, to me, a horrendous travesty. SaveCoH has been lauded for its maturity in its actions. And before you bring up emulators, they have also stated, over and over, they are not working on it in conjunction with Plan Z and they are even distancing themselves from it, at this point. As to why we trusted NcSoft after what they've done to other games, we haven't. We trusted Paragon Studios. If NcSoft had replaced the Dev team when they bought the game we probably wouldn't be here discussing any of this at the moment. The Paragon Devs asked for our trust, not NcSoft, and they never steered us wrong. And before the snide comment about "until the closure of the game", again, they were taken as surprise as we were. Your opinions are, just that, yours. Tauting them over and over and over in every thread you can find a spark is tantamount to ridiculous and severely lacking in character. If you're happy with NcSoft's decision, fine, let it drop. Go play their other games. Spouting your opinion on the matter won't change the minds of this community or SaveCoH. Stop trying to portray us as "whiney brats" when several sources have praised us for our actions, including our work for charities in the face of the closure. We are losing an MMO home and while it's true we could simply move the community, sadly, that won't happen. Some will go to other MMOs, others will stop playing MMOs, and a few will stop gaming all together. And that's what hurts. The heart of our community, the Devs, was ripped from us and we're being told (again by a select few) it's not okay to grieve, it's not okay to try and get the game in someone else's hands, it's not ok to considder it an injustice. Well to that select group, it's your opinion, and if you're fine with it, please, just move on. |
It's two way street. Just as you are tired of us talking about SaveCOX, we are just as tired of them talking insultingly about NCSoft every thread and quite frankly in my opinion again, acting pretty ungrateful for them giving this game a total of 8 years, longer than most MMOs would ever see.
I think it is ok to grieve but I dont think it's ok to troll peopel that dont grieve or take it as hard as saveCOX. Want us to get off your back? Then stay off ours.
It is very possible to have difference and still act sensible but there is no point in not shooting back if the other party automatically shoots first because we are not slipping into depression, didnt feel the game saved our lives, understand the buisness aspect, think it's just a game, or not cursing at NCSoft at every turn. Everyone reacts different and some 7 year vets are torn apart, and that is cool to express, while others is another game dowen the tube and will move on after Nov. 30th. I just got fed up with being called names and everything just because I dont understand what's the big deal and have no intentions on joining TonyV crew. If you do that is fine. But dont insult us for not choosing to just follow because you feel like someone stepped on your heart with golf cleats and we just so happen to not. It's fine that saveCOX is giving to charities, now, and doing good things but that is no right to insult people that dont agree and then dont expect something in return.
I guess right here, for the last month can be the cross road. Either we can continue at each other, a split twisted communit yat each other throat because the other side wont see the view and cant because it's hidden behind the insults and calling other people's views dump or stupid. Or we can at least spend this last month going out somewhat like heroes.
I'm an extending this truce to the saveCOX people. If they stop with their tactics against us, I wont bother them. If they continue to continue to state their opinion in the matter that have been, riddled with insults to anyone that dont agree with them or I think the insult of the week for us is NCSoft employees or is it NCSoftfangirls, I lose track with which one we one, then we wont have to return the favor.
This is our home too and dont automatically become the sole domain for SaveCOX just because the game is ending. You have a right to your opinion and want them respected, then respect ours. It's not going to work expecting us to always respect you opinion but not giving a simple crap about anything that dont fit the saveCOX view. Just Of course I cant speak for anyoen but me, but I think this is a good junture to say this and try to end this on good terms even if we dont agree on views.
So we can either respect EACH OTHER VIEWS or continue the way it's been going in the past. I leave that choice up to you and your saveCOX people. And I'll at least have my answer next time I post my opinion on a topic and see if they can refrain from insults and calling the view stupid dumb idiotic, NCsoft employee and etc, and stick to the topic, then I know we are good. If not, then I guess then it wasnt meant for be even in the last leg.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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I honestly don't know, as I really don't know much about CO at all. It is an interesting thought though. Not one that matters ot me or anything, hehe, but yeah... Personally I've always felt like these games should have an offline mode.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
You think that CO will end up being stand alone? It seems to be already set up for it with the solo centric gameplay and content, more so than COX. Not to mentioned it was once developed with game console in mind. I wonder if that is what they are planning on doing after CO shutters the doors?
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One of the first I ever tried was a beta of wwiionline. It was a pretty advanced and rather ambitious project that combined flight sim, tank sim, boat and submarine sim along with foot soldiers, combat, regular vehicles all within the same exact playing field.
They had an offline mode that was just called training mode. So, you could fly/drive/run around to learn things without messing up your country's chances, I suppose, haha.
I always thought that was the way it should be (knowledge and knowhow of making such possibilities a reality for each and every mmorpg completely foreign to me, of course!).
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
But with that question there is interesting. You think companies at least should give a warnign if things are nothing going well as they like before announcing closure that way players can guage whether their "hard work" (always thought a point of a game was for fun not work) and love can be measured and they know whether or not it's enough or not and a chance to at least try to fix it. With this much zeal over the closing think there would be this much zeal into either spending more, or getting more to join if a warning was given?
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This situation (which is all I really have to go by) certainly felt like it called for such communications. (Then again, according to NCSoft the changes were not entirely financial. No doubt, there are numbers that'd make closing down unthinkable, but I don't know how realistic those numbers may be/may have been.)
Here's the one thing that has bothered me about this shutdown that I haven't really expressed, I don't think (although, it's common, I'm sure).
People were very willing to give more money than the monthly subscription because they felt like it was going towards Paragon Studios and the health of this game.
And they really didn't see any writing on the wall that it'd be ending any time soon. Some people tossed hundreds of dollars so that they could unlock the VIP Tiers and get those costumes/unlockables (and have an enormous pile of Paragon Points to buy things at the store as well).
While that is certainly a buyer-be-ware situation (as I certainly was not willing to shell out that kind of money for such things, but, hey, we all have our different levels and limits), it's also a situation that makes such a quick shutdown all the more harsh.
Sure, we had three months, but - Three months is not all that long of a time and those three months are just three months of fun... they're three months after being told your favorite game is going bye-bye for no good reason other than that the publisher is refocusing their vision/products. That's a bummer and makes those three months unfun for many (not everyone, but possibly most).
And it was really unseen and a complete surprise to most everyone.
The fact of the "fix everything" upcoming issue being just about ready for release... not to mention knowing that the developers had the following issue planned and surely had things pretty well pegged for the one after that as well (as we'd been told they do and as they'd drop mentions of different features and tweaks that'd come down the line in those later issues) really made the sudden (and quick) shutdown shocking. Plus the fact that they gave the development team no time to at least push those things to live.
This was not a grand sendoff to a loyal community.
And, just as individuals deserve fair treatment, so do communities. There may not be laws to tell us some of these things (and, in many cases there actually, are), it is often times pretty obvious when someone is being shady and/or someone is being treated poorly.
Anyway, stuff happens, no doubt... but, sometimes, the people causing that stuff to happen deserve to be reprimanded and/or made to make it happen in a better way.
I think I drifted off tangent there, mayhaps, hehe. Just wanted to try and answer your questions (as much as I could, at least).
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I'm still not entirely familiar with all of the shutdowns, but, as far as I understand, they were all not doing so well. I could be wrong about that though (heh, there are plenty of people who likely believe the same about CoH).|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Interesting points.
And maybe many more didnt know the about the other games until after the fact. Very much possible yes. So really the only true odd game that wasnt dead yet that they killed was COX? |
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
It did come off as selfish actually like the only reason they are downing NCSoft every other thread is because they killed "this" game. Prior to the announcement any negative comment about NCSoft was shouted down by many of the same people that is on their case now, especially when it can to talking about NCSoft past. My, how times has changed. Hmm, that clears somethings up. .
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When I'd complain about "marketing", I generally felt like the real culprits were NCSoft. Now, none of this was huge, but I always felt like NCSoft was a necessary evil, if you will, hehe. Which, hey, the money-man/producer always will be, to some extent.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Thanks for answering the questions without the insults. Appreciate it
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@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
1. Telling people to move on is neither small nor petty - I fear SOME people are codependent on an MMO. MMO codependency is not uncommon. Personalizing a game by calling players "family" is a bit odd to me. I have friends from the game...we still talk regularly...but they are not family. In my 7 years of playing CoH I have seen it destroy people; divorce, loss of job, depression etc...ya don't hear about all that though because that doesn't make people want to play more. I know more people who divorced because of their addiction to CoH than got married because of CoH.
2. SaveCoH and charities? Uhmm The ExtraLife campaign was a Team CoH thing...not a Team SaveCoH thing. It was simply advertised on Titan and here. Team CoH did Extra Life last year as well.... What other charity are you referring to?? The dev dinner?
3. You tell people that repeating their opinions over and over is "ridiculous and severely lacking in character" but the funny thing is I see people on BOTH sides repeating their opinions over and over...
4. Emulator: It has already been stated/quoted/shown that people form Titan ARE working on an emulator. Heck TonyV stated it himself (emphasis mine):http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ic,5437.0.html
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Ya see there... reverse engineering AND a completely other plan.Plan Z. Anyone who tells you that they are NOT reverse engineering for an emulator is lying. | Still, at this point, at least for now, I think that our efforts should be fully focused on reverse engineering the game servers (which they are). I also highly suggest that you use the Sentinel+ Extractor character export tool to export your characters. Even if those data files aren't used directly by CoH-derived servers, I'm sure we'll figure out some use for them at some point in the future. And of course, we still have an active contingent of people looking to develop an entirely new game to follow in City of Heroes' footsteps. |
5. SaveCoH mature?? ARE YOU F***ING SERIOUS? As a Korean SaveCoH has APPALLED me with their complete and utter lack of maturity. They organized a kibun attack against NCSoft CEO! That is not MATURE it is HATEFUL! That action alone absolutely disgusted me. A lot of people on Titan know I am Korean..but did ANY of them ask me my thoughts on using a Korean custom meant to SHAME people? Nope. instead they took ill advised advice from someone because they did some research on the internet and decided as a group that it was a GREAT idea all the while laughing at how much shame they would cause.... SO MATURE! If NCSoft was a German company I'm sure someone would have thought sending Stars of David to them for "murdering" the community would be a GREAT idea! (And yes people have stated that NCSoft has "murdered" the CoH community). Want more maturity... look at some of the ideas floating around on titan atm..go ahead... comment bombing (Yeah that's mature) and has already started with some quite libelous statements in those "bombs."
I stood behind SaveCoH for a little over 6 weeks until their tactics went frickin postal after 10/2. The slogan "We are heroes...this is what we do" used to be a signature statement that showed we fought for things in a mature manner...side by side...for the greater good. Now? SaveCoH has turned into nothing but a smear campaign. SAVERS refuse to listen to realistic opinions, call people tr0lls, unicorns, NCSoft apologists, NCSoft employees, childish, etc etc... Instead of throwing poop maybe they should stop for a minute and see what kind of impression THEY are giving to people? You ever think the reason people say the SAVERS are acting like spoiled brats is because that is how they are representing themselves with their smear tactics??
I am Not PRO NCSoft
I am Not ANTI NCSoft
I am Not ANTI-CoH
I'm actually not ANTI Titan...I just refuse to be associated with their tactics.
I am not Pro Titan - I couldn't be after what they have done and what they have planned.
I am a realist and know there is no way to Save CoH any more. NCSoft will not sell...plain and simple..no matter how much people think that maybe just maybe they will...
I am anti emulator...morally I think they are wrong (GASP I HAVE MORALS!?!?!?)
I am anti Plan Z - One I don't think it has a snowball's chance in heII and two...It's not CoH.
I will continue to post whatever I like no matter how many times you..or anyone calls me immature/rude/etc etc...because as a Coher that is my RIGHT. If my posts or my fellow "NCSoft Apologists" posts offend you so much...put me on ignore. No one is forcing you to read what I type. I have just as much right to state what I believe as the next person. I am allowed to have an opinion; whether it is popular or not is of no consequence to me. I am not here to convert people away from Titan...I am here to say what I think; especially when I see things stated which I know to be categorically false.
And now it's time to go watch Project Runway... What?
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Originally Posted by LadyGrimrose
[Note: This message is not From LadyGrim, but rather the original owner of the account. She left the game and forums as she stated. I've just seen enough to put my two cents in here.]
What I don't understand is why we have this little collective of individuals that seem to think it is their place to tell us, over and over in several posts, that we are wrong for being upset over the closure of the game. NcSoft made a business decision, yes. They handled that decision's execution poorly. Like it or not the day they handed out the news is suspect. Augst 31st was the first full weekend of Guild Wars 2 (preorders only played the weekend before). It was also Labor Day Weekend and PAX. By Tuesday the announcement was buried under coverage. Was this a wise business tactic, yes. For the players and Dev team though, it's bad because it didn't allow for the closing news to get the voice it could have had. Stating over and over that it's just a game, move on, is not helping matters and it makes you look rather small and petty. Yes, it was a game, but it was a game doing well, in its own right and the communtiy surrounding it (which includes the Devs) is hurt because it "is" (whether you like it or not) like part of our family was permanently injured. Statements that the Devs knew it was coming are wrong because of what was stated at the beginning of this thread. Any speculation to the contrary is merely conspiracy theorim unless one of the many Devs that has stated otherwise comes forward suddenly to retract that they weren't as surprised as the players. Bad mouthing SaveCoH when it has done so much for charities because of all this is, to me, a horrendous travesty. SaveCoH has been lauded for its maturity in its actions. And before you bring up emulators, they have also stated, over and over, they are not working on it in conjunction with Plan Z and they are even distancing themselves from it, at this point. As to why we trusted NcSoft after what they've done to other games, we haven't. We trusted Paragon Studios. If NcSoft had replaced the Dev team when they bought the game we probably wouldn't be here discussing any of this at the moment. The Paragon Devs asked for our trust, not NcSoft, and they never steered us wrong. And before the snide comment about "until the closure of the game", again, they were taken as surprise as we were. Your opinions are, just that, yours. Tauting them over and over and over in every thread you can find a spark is tantamount to ridiculous and severely lacking in character. If you're happy with NcSoft's decision, fine, let it drop. Go play their other games. Spouting your opinion on the matter won't change the minds of this community or SaveCoH. Stop trying to portray us as "whiney brats" when several sources have praised us for our actions, including our work for charities in the face of the closure. We are losing an MMO home and while it's true we could simply move the community, sadly, that won't happen. Some will go to other MMOs, others will stop playing MMOs, and a few will stop gaming all together. And that's what hurts. The heart of our community, the Devs, was ripped from us and we're being told (again by a select few) it's not okay to grieve, it's not okay to try and get the game in someone else's hands, it's not ok to considder it an injustice. Well to that select group, it's your opinion, and if you're fine with it, please, just move on. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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This sounds familiar.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
3. You tell people that repeating their opinions over and over is "ridiculous and severely lacking in character" but the funny thing is I see people on BOTH sides repeating their opinions over and over...
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I agree that it is not inherently small or petty. Of course, one can make it small/ petty if one goes about it in a particular way. This is not an accusation.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
1. Telling people to move on is neither small nor petty
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Millions of people maybe for WOW and a few select others but that's average on best with games like the EA sports series who manage to milk their consumer base yearly with the various sports games they release. Difference I can still play my NHL 06 on my ps2 that still works so no hard feeling at EA for shutting the server off and oh ya I can buy their new one to continue playing online. |
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
And yet people still buy MMOs...millions of people. So it only matters when it affects their game...or?
Did people really think CoH was going to be around 20 years? I consider 8 years to be quite an achievement personally; especially when compared to the life of some other MMOs. I HIGHLY doubt either CO or DCUO will see as much life; I fear their time is coming much sooner than people want to think/admit. |
People might buy MMOs, but how WOW is to the rest of the crowd of the MMO market you know the giant 900LB gorilla in the room in aint got nothing on say Mario or Zelda or EA sports or Metroid or or or the list goes on. Console games are a million times more popular then MMOs and the most popular PC games are ports from consoles. It's cause people don't like paying monthly to access a game they bought and then on top of that have that game be taken away when ever who is in charge decides to.
The game could have been very profitable as long as you only included operating costs like the server hosting, bandwidth, customer support, the forums and the website. But as soon as you include Paragon Studio into the mix and can't see how it could be considered very profitable on sales of only $10-11 million a year. Unless of course people are suggesting that the numbers NCSoft reported as sales revenue are a fabrication.
Assuming the sales numbers are accurate, the game's revenues have been on a steady downward slope for several years now. Freedom hadn't reversed this trend but may have leveled it out for the time being. There was no hope for growth into NCSoft's most profitable region, Korea, as the game died in Beta there years ago.
It's been reported that Paragon Studio had spent time and manpower toward development of two new MMOs which NCSoft rejected in their early development stages. So all Paragon Studio had going for it was maintaining a game with near zero revenue growth with revenues that were now only 40% of what they were in 2009.
The NC Interactive subsidiary that Paragon Studio is organized under is hemorrhaging money big time, with a Q2 loss as large as what all of NCSoft reported for the quarter.
Yes it sucks our game is gone and the devs are now in the wind, landing at other studios but on the surface I can understand why NCSoft did what they did. Who else were they going to "take it out on"? NC Europe was already gutted a few years ago. Arenanet was on the verge of releasing their new game which rocked the early reviews, creating a lot of positive buzz. Carbine Studio is listed as being under the NCSoft parent company which was profitable last quarter. Blade and Soul got good reviews when it came out in Korea at the very end of the second quarter. Their bread and butter MMORPGs Aion, Lineage I and II are still raking in the big bucks in the Asian region.
So NCSoft killed off a studio in a foreign country that was behind a game which was rejected in NCSoft's home market, a game whose sales revenues have been declining over the years, a studio haven't shown you a new game idea that you liked and are part of the wholly own subsidiary that has been majorly in the red for the last several years. Sorry but from their point of view, it's the logical play to make if they want to show their investors that they are trying to reduce costs.
Saying this doesn't make me an NCSoft supporter or an apologist but a realist. They messed up, we payed the price. Is it fair to the employees of Paragon Studio or the players of CoH? Hell no. Is it the right move for NCSoft? Probably.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
+1
Reality
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
The game could have been very profitable as long as you only included operating costs like the server hosting, bandwidth, customer support, the forums and the website. But as soon as you include Paragon Studio into the mix and can't see how it could be considered very profitable on sales of only $10-11 million a year. Unless of course people are suggesting that the numbers NCSoft reported as sales revenue are a fabrication.
Assuming the sales numbers are accurate, the game's revenues have been on a steady downward slope for several years now. Freedom hadn't reversed this trend but may have leveled it out for the time being. There was no hope for growth into NCSoft's most profitable region, Korea, as the game died in Beta there years ago. It's been reported that Paragon Studio had spent time and manpower toward development of two new MMOs which NCSoft rejected in their early development stages. So all Paragon Studio had going for it was maintaining a game with near zero revenue growth with revenues that were now only 40% of what they were in 2009. The NC Interactive subsidiary that Paragon Studio is organized under is hemorrhaging money big time, with a Q2 loss as large as what all of NCSoft reported for the quarter. Yes it sucks our game is gone and the devs are now in the wind, landing at other studios but on the surface I can understand why NCSoft did what they did. Who else were they going to "take it out on". NC Europe was already gutted a few years ago. Arenanet was on the verge of releasing their new game which rocked the early reviews, creating a lot of positive buzz. And Carbine Studio is listed as being under the NCSoft parent company which was profitable last quarter. Blade and Soul got good reviews when it came out in Korea at the end of the second quarter. Their bread and butter MMORPGs Aion, Lineage I and II are still raking in the big bucks in the Asian region. So they killed off a studio in a foreign country that was behind a game which was rejected in your home market, a game whose sales revenues have been declining over the years, a studio haven't shown you a new game idea that you liked and are part of the wholly own subsidiary that has been majorly in the red for the last several years. Sorry but from their point of view, it's the logical play to make if they want to show their investors that they are trying to reduce costs. Saying this doesn't make me an NCSoft supporter or an apologist but a realist. They messed up, we payed the price. Is it fair to the employees of Paragon Studio or the players of CoH? Hell no. Is it the right move for NCSoft? Probably. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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And that right there is what it seems like and why the american market seems a bit unfamiliar to some game companies. In many of the gaming companies home town, one in particualr that we all know of, MMOs sell like hot cakes, the ones that take years to gain a level or two, and console games are out there but not talked about so much. Here, it seems like MMOs and PC games are on the decline especially since the console game have the capability now to easily to go online in itself. |
Originally Posted by Lucky666
People might buy MMOs, but how WOW is to the rest of the crowd of the MMO market you know the giant 900LB gorilla in the room in aint got nothing on say Mario or Zelda or EA sports or Metroid or or or the list goes on. Console games are a million times more popular then MMOs and the most popular PC games are ports from consoles. It's cause people don't like paying monthly to access a game they bought and then on top of that have that game be taken away when ever who is in charge decides to. |
Yeah you are right, many consumers will look and wonder why pay $15 a month or so for a game that goes belly up and become unplayable while I can spend $60 dollars, dont have to worry about computer specs graphic cards, sound card, etc and even if the game still go belly up I can play it for years? Sound logical to pick the console but if logic ruled 100% we would not be playing this here game at all now would we. There is something that a MMO on a PC offers that no console with a joystick can ever offer. But like anything, there are downsides. It all can become a part of history with a blink of an eye as far as MMO goes.
And it's ironic that those games you mentioned maybe besides the sports one, originated in Asia. Not sure about Zelda's Link but I would have pegged him for some Animae thing.
I'm still wondering why the hell isnt this game the 900lb Gorilla even without counting the Asian population (no offense), especially since it came to be prior to WoW. We had good devs, good concept, good communication between players and devs, frequent updates relatively, yet...what happened? Originally I thought that it just failed to pull WoW players away but this game seemed to have been here first.
Unfortunately as long as WoW stays the 900lb gorilla, I think that is what many game makers assume that is what we want. It's kind of hard to argue from looking on the papers. "Ok, we can make a super hero game people. How did the other super hero games perform?"
"Well sir, none peaked at over 200,000 players and COX was an exellent game."
"Ok, no super hero game. Too risky. Not enough interest. How about the usual fantasy stuff?"
"Well WoW still have millions of players, Everquest peaked at 1.1 million, and there is Everquest 2."
"Well boys, looks like gamers want fantasy and grind. Lets make one that they really want."
In reality, I think it's different story but when it do happen again, we have to show them everything we have with no holding back. Spend spend spend (for those that are willing to.) until there is no "Uhm meh they are making a profit but not much. Think we get more from taxes? Send a bootlegged letter to them and shut it down. It isnt that many fo them so dont worry much about PR. They wont make much fuss." but more "That game dont fit with the line up but they are racking up a fortune. Screw the lineup, we keeping it."
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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+1
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
The game could have been very profitable as long as you only included operating costs like the server hosting, bandwidth, customer support, the forums and the website. But as soon as you include Paragon Studio into the mix and can't see how it could be considered very profitable on sales of only $10-11 million a year. Unless of course people are suggesting that the numbers NCSoft reported as sales revenue are a fabrication.
Assuming the sales numbers are accurate, the game's revenues have been on a steady downward slope for several years now. Freedom hadn't reversed this trend but may have leveled it out for the time being. There was no hope for growth into NCSoft's most profitable region, Korea, as the game died in Beta there years ago. It's been reported that Paragon Studio had spent time and manpower toward development of two new MMOs which NCSoft rejected in their early development stages. So all Paragon Studio had going for it was maintaining a game with near zero revenue growth with revenues that were now only 40% of what they were in 2009. The NC Interactive subsidiary that Paragon Studio is organized under is hemorrhaging money big time, with a Q2 loss as large as what all of NCSoft reported for the quarter. Yes it sucks our game is gone and the devs are now in the wind, landing at other studios but on the surface I can understand why NCSoft did what they did. Who else were they going to "take it out on"? NC Europe was already gutted a few years ago. Arenanet was on the verge of releasing their new game which rocked the early reviews, creating a lot of positive buzz. Carbine Studio is listed as being under the NCSoft parent company which was profitable last quarter. Blade and Soul got good reviews when it came out in Korea at the very end of the second quarter. Their bread and butter MMORPGs Aion, Lineage I and II are still raking in the big bucks in the Asian region. So NCSoft killed off a studio in a foreign country that was behind a game which was rejected in NCSoft's home market, a game whose sales revenues have been declining over the years, a studio haven't shown you a new game idea that you liked and are part of the wholly own subsidiary that has been majorly in the red for the last several years. Sorry but from their point of view, it's the logical play to make if they want to show their investors that they are trying to reduce costs. Saying this doesn't make me an NCSoft supporter or an apologist but a realist. They messed up, we payed the price. Is it fair to the employees of Paragon Studio or the players of CoH? Hell no. Is it the right move for NCSoft? Probably. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Do you stop to read all of the agreements you have to click "yes" on just to get your computer operating the way you want it, let alone videogames? Not just read them, but understand them. And what if some part of it confuses you and you have questions? Who do you call, customer service? I doubt you'd get a satisfactory answer. I'm pretty sure if you tried to read all of that legal felgercarb, that would be the only thing you could do for quite a while.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
You know what they currently are. How you think they should be is immaterial, especially someone like you who can probably cite specific sections of the EULA from memory. You clicked "I agree," right? I really can't understand your whole consumer rights angle when you as a consumer agreed to conditions that you apparently didn't find agreeable. I think you should own your decisions.
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Stay classy, Arcanaville.
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