Why Do All the Other Superhero MMOs Have to Suck?

Sigh, it really sucks having no where to go. Champions online was boring. I played that for like 2 weeks and was bored outta my mind. DCUO was one of those 'get to top level and raid over and over and get leet gear' and I hate that kind of setup. And now I just looked at the thing Marvel is releasing and it looks godawful. Basically Marvel Alliance in MMO form. Why is CoH the only game to get it right? And why is it being shut down while the others stick around (well, minus the Marvel one, which hasn't come out yet)? I hope Matt can round up at least some of the Paragon City devs and kickstart another super hero MMO. Nothing else compares to what they have done. About a month left and I'm gonna have no where to go. Right now, I should be playing my Bio Armor/Dark Melee tank, not be in a state of mourning...

Basically CoH is the best because (in no particular order):

• Approachable devs who actually listen to their player base
• It's been worked on the longest
• It just got LOTS of stuff right out of the gate.
• It wasn't having to try and avoid "look and feel" issues that later superhero MMOs did.
• Easily picked up mechanics.
• A relatively unobfuscated/abstracted UI. Yeah, some of the parts of the UI in CoH can be downright byzantine, but for the most part, it delivers what you need to know to play the game with a minimum of pointless flash. Look at the interfaces for the others. Lots of "Ooh! We're more artistic than CoH!" Well, yeah, and most of that art asset brings NOTHING but screen clutter to the game.
• The community. Not saying that CO doesn't have a decent community. But let's face it. CO is the Jan Brady of Superhero MMOs. It's always going to suffer in comparison to CoH and its community knows it and is sensitive about it (Marcia Marcia Marcia!).

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

Can't argue much with what Hyperstrike said at all!

I was thinking though... I think one aspect that might trip companies/designers up is trying to get clever/fancy - "Hey, let's do this genre... but do it differently somehow!"
Maybe because CoH nailed the fundamentals so well (in my opinion) the other attempts thought they'd do better to steer away from them? I'm not convinced it was really due to CoH's existence though. I just think that it's a common failure to shoot for special things without taking care of the bare bone basics (or even recognizing them to begin with).

In this case, what would be most appealing about a comicbook/superpowered mmorpg? (For me) 1) A character you truly connect with (looks, story, immersion) 2) straight-up confident and simple start to super combat 3) a world that is there for you when you want it to be (without asking you to bend your life around for it. We want to pick up that comicbook, tv show, miniseries, toy when we have a break from reality and we don't want to feel like it's a chore or a draining commitment).

Now, maybe those aren't truly the basics and fundamentals of a super-powered/comicbook mmorpg for everyone, but that's what comes off the top of my head when thinking about it (travel powers fit somewhere into each of those aspects, really).
Now, don't get me wrong, I believe in trying to break ground and try new things (and I am not saying that CoH was perfect!), but I just suspect that some people (in most endeavors, honestly) try and shoot for being different before they have a solid base of good fundamentals to start with and build from.

Some may think "generic" is a terribly bad thing, but (in this sense) I believe it to be a great thing.
I see CoH as being somewhat generic at the core and I find it to be one of its greatest strengths. A generic base to start from (in art style and in thematic approach) lends itself to adapting to all the different ways people will want to push and pull it.
Stylize it too much... and you end up feeling more forced into someone else's view, rather than being given something that allows you to make your own imaginings come alive.


Just my opinions...

And, honestly, I think the games out there are lacking, regardless of the genre.

The problem is that none of the other developers understand that we want a place were we can BE superheroes! We want a place to live, a place where our creativity can be expressed in a living world that we can interact in. We want to be thinking about our game even when we are doing other things in real life. We have all seen a name somewhere in print or on TV and thought, "Man, that would make a great superhero name". You would run home, jump on CoH and try to flesh out that very character. We want that level of addiction that was "ok" to have. We want a game that lets no corner of the superhero world unexplored, letting us mix it up with different concepts that even we had never thought of.

What we are getting is something akin to throw-away games that you can take or leave with no real impression left on the player. More and more developers don't trust the idea of the "long-term player" and are trying to get your money as quickly as possible before you attention turns elsewhere. I personally think this has nothing to do with player attention span as much as it does with the quality and scope of the game out there. The anomaly that was WoW has skewed the concept of a successful MMO to where 5 million players is a standard for a monthly subscription game. I feel that OUR game is coming, but it will take risk and a bold vision with a long term outlook and input from players who love the superhero genre.

"aspects of community, immersion and deeper layers to get lost in"


Mind if I use this for a future pitch?

I was watching an interview with one of the designers for Marvel's upcoming MMORPG.

He basically said "Why would you want to play as "Captain Firepants" when you can play as a "known" superhero, like Spiderman".

He ... just ... doesnt ... get ... it.

I'd much rather play as Captain Firepants - because he is MY creation. Because he is an extension of my personality and expression of my creativity.
I dont want to be locked into someone elses superhero design and be just like everyone else.

As for DCUO, I think the biggest problem with that game, for me, is the complete disconnect between the character mechanics and the superhero genre. It's like they designed the core functionality of the game before knowing what to do with it.

It just baffles me that you'd design a system like this if you knew you were making a DC comic book game.

Its hard to learn from history.

I'm going retro, I am playing Diablo 2 now.

Because being a super hero with regeneration/invulnerability isn't good enough, You have to smash a guy in the face with his gun that somehow hurts you, dig around his unconscious person, grab a shiny pair of gloves, and wear them before you will be able to regenerate enough.


The gear concept was never fun for me, If i pick a power, i want that power to get gradually better without the help of "Gear"

Hell, I like the enchancement system, The only "Obsolete" enchancements are ones from five levels ago, And getting new ones literally just takes 5 minutes at a shop.

IOs are a whole new league, but were simple and rewarded you for knowing your strengths and weaknesses.

I really hope Matt starts another MMO, with the experience of CoH and his Veteran status among the dev team, he knows what we hate, what we like, and isn't likely to follow the WoW formula many games, Including SWTOR did.

I simply disagree with that. Co* was so much better 'out of the box' than any of the others were/are at 3 years. Heck, I dare say it was better at age 1 or even .5 than CO is today, and the others too.

Co* is just that awesome and unique. I may be biased, but what drives me *away* from the other MMOs is either ludicrous amounts and variety of things to do just to do things (which sounds odd saying it, but you know what I mean) or the interface is just so piss poor, and unavoidably so, that I get frustrated that someone actually thought the UI was a *really* good idea and kept it that way.

Co* never, ever, felt this way. It felt, with just a simple amount of tweaking for the invert mouselook, correct out of the box. And the way you can customize which power goes with the number keys, and move them around at will? AND bind them easily?

Go do what we could do at age .5 to 1 with any other MMO as quickly as we did.

The Devs were just simply wizards at what they did, and no other MMO that I've played comes close to the UI, much less the rest of the game. The UI is the thing. It's like a cool looking pair of shoes... if they fit poorly, you still gonna wear them every day? Nope, gonna get the right pair of shoes. That's where those other MMOs are... STO, CO, etc, all look nifty, but they make my feet hurt.

Sorry. Got me a little riled there. Point is, CO is NEVER going to 'grow up' like CoH did, because it's already too far screwed up to get there.

IMO, of course.

Mike