Champions Online: just doesn't cut it.
By
Ael Rhiana,
Posted on: 2012-10-06 24:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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You mean like if you came back to COH without paying for it and couldn't use your Kheldians, Controllers, Masterminds, Crabs, IO's or Incarnate powers anymore? Or the Auction House? Or global chat channels? Or join Super Groups? |
Originally Posted by Sigium
It's probably already been said, or something similar enough, but I'll add my feedback (Sorry, everyone, I didn't read the entire thread.
 )I bought CO back in '09 when it first came out and I was... selectively pleased. The graphics were a step up, but everything felt either overpowered, gimped, or just clunky. Finally, when I tried to get back into the game in '12, I realized that almost half of the costume pieces I'd used and loved were made unavailable to me, as well as the characters I'd left behind. In confusion, I jumped to the forums and asked for help, where I was informed that I'd just been "renting" the costume pieces and freeform character slot for the price of their monthly fee. After paying their $50, I was in no better a place than those who had just downloaded the game that day. I sighed, told the community that this was not likely the game for me, and I left without looking back. It felt really shady to me. |
I think CO is less restrictive for free accounts, but unfortunately they also seem to have a community mentality that they don't want to pay for things. In COH the attitude has always been the "Shuddup and take my money" approach. In CO, they farm to convert in game money to CS money. They do surveys to get free CS money. This attitude is even perpetuated on their forums, and it makes me feel awkward. I've always been willing to spend money on games I like, because I'm happy to support something I enjoy. That always seemed to be the primary attitude here in COH, but not so much over there, which is puzzling. It really is a great game.
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When I went to buy Zen over there I discovered I was going to have to jump through more PWE security hoops to enable the ability to purchase the currency, and I was so weary from jumping through hoops to reenable my account and such that I decided I didn't need to give them more money that badly. |
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
In COH the attitude has always been the "Shuddup and take my money" approach. In CO, they farm to convert in game money to CS money. They do surveys to get free CS money. This attitude is even perpetuated on their forums, and it makes me feel awkward. I've always been willing to spend money on games I like, because I'm happy to support something I enjoy. That always seemed to be the primary attitude here in COH, but not so much over there, which is puzzling. It really is a great game.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Unfortunately one area where CO entirely surpasses CoH is making things unobvious, inconvenient, or both in its menus.
First there's the level 10 bit.
Then, when you can buy Zen, even if you go to the store from CO, you can't use that Zen until you go and transfer it to the game you clicked the buy Zen link from.
It's got gamepad support, sidekicking, and a costume creator so I'm going to give it a fair shake (it doesn't hurt that my favorite stalker was claws/wp and Night Avenger is basically that, just stuck with viper claws) even though it has tried its best to get me to go away at this early stage.
Secret World and my PCs did not agree, so I re-installed CO at the urging of @Shotty Mario...
The Good:
I was able to claim my global (@Neuronia) and name (Neuronia) and make a reasonable facsimile of my Mind Control (Telekinetic Blast/Assault) and Forcefield (Force) Controller, the costume is very nice too.
I love the textures, eye/face options, single/both leg options and so on. They add a lot of customization room.
The city looks like a city...Chinatown looks like Somerset St. over here, minus the ninjas and so on, of course. It really looks comic booky, which I love.
Lots of flexibility in character advancement and so on.
The Bad:
The map takes a while to get used to. Having been used to BIG GLOWING WAYPOINT, it took a lot of squinting to find the small (1) (2) (3) on the map, but I got used to it.
Lots of currencies...I thought City had gotten bad for this but boy, Police currency, local currency, global currency, sheesh!
Not a lot of grouping so far but I've joined some Alert teams and those have been really fun!
The Ugly:
Clipping when flying, haven't figured out how to look "frontal" (Page/Up, Page/Down weren't doing it).
Too many puns. Far, far too many puns. I like puns too but...yikes.
Level speed seems slower than CoH, where I would be 20 in no time while here I'm 15 after a few hours of play.
Overall I am quite enjoing Champions Online. It's much better than CoH in some respects (you "unlock" contacts by passing nearby, citizens offer you short missions, Alerts offer constant teaming) and a little unpolished in others (no skipping Tutorial looks like...) but so far having a great time. Already subbed for an additional month, no plans in stopping anytime soon.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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yea.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Someone who stopped their sub here and came back under Freemium conditions might've found themselves in similar (but probably a bit better in sum) straits. Knocked down to two characters, some of which wouldn't be unlockable due to having unpurchased power sets (or, potentially, locked ATs), and possibly equipped with unusable gear requiring a re-build and re-slot of the character.
And after getting all that sorted out, the game gets shut down on them, so maybe not better in sum after all... That we're just "renting" in these MMOGs is an unfortunate truth. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
Has melee become viable in CO? I only tried the game for like a month when it launched and I seem to recall anything ranged I tried completely owning anything melee I tried. Unless I was just "doing it wrong". Unfortunately, my favorite CoH characters are Stalkers. In CO, I think I ended up playing dual pistols when what I really wanted was a sword-wielding Samurai Ninja Robot Cowboy. Was that too much to ask?
Cause CoH had it covered.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
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Once you clear the tutorial with one character, you'll have the option of skipping it with any new ones you create. The 'skip' button does tend to hide down from the tutorial button though, so its hard to tell at first.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
(no skipping Tutorial looks like...)
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Originally Posted by Zem
Has melee become viable in CO? I only tried the game for like a month when it launched and I seem to recall anything ranged I tried completely owning anything melee I tried.
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Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
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Yeah. If you click to activate one of the missions, you get a blue waypoint arrow floating above your head, pointing to your mission area. This can sometimes be corn-fusing as some of the mission "doors" are actually INSIDE buildings.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
The map takes a while to get used to. Having been used to BIG GLOWING WAYPOINT, it took a lot of squinting to find the small (1) (2) (3) on the map, but I got used to it.
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| Lots of currencies...I thought City had gotten bad for this but boy, Police currency, local currency, global currency, sheesh! |
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| Not a lot of grouping so far but I've joined some Alert teams and those have been really fun! |
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| Clipping when flying, haven't figured out how to look "frontal" (Page/Up, Page/Down weren't doing it). |
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| Too many puns. Far, far too many puns. I like puns too but...yikes. |
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Level speed seems slower than CoH, where I would be 20 in no time while here I'm 15 after a few hours of play.
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| Overall I am quite enjoing Champions Online. It's much better than CoH in some respects (you "unlock" contacts by passing nearby, citizens offer you short missions, Alerts offer constant teaming) and a little unpolished in others (no skipping Tutorial looks like...) but so far having a great time. Already subbed for an additional month, no plans in stopping anytime soon. |
Just hoping like hell that PW isn't in the middle of abandoning the game. It has potential. But they need a real dev crew to work on it. What they have right now is barely enough to keep the game in maintenance mode.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I actually pulled CO through Steam. It's pretty much brain-dead. Fill my Steam Wallet with the cash I want to spend. Then buy the things in CO with funds from my Steam Wallet. Fairly straightforward.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
When I went to buy Zen over there I discovered I was going to have to jump through more PWE security hoops to enable the ability to purchase the currency, and I was so weary from jumping through hoops to reenable my account and such that I decided I didn't need to give them more money that badly.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Re: Currencies in CO. I felt that way at first until I thought of a way to compare/understand relative to COH.
-Resources --> inf.
-Recognitions are various forms of merits. MCPD-->Reward merits, Primus-->Vanguard merits, UNTIL-->Astral merits.
-Questionite --> Empyrean merits (or alignment merits?)
Now obviously these aren't totally accurate, but thinking along these lines helped me make sense of them a bit when I was first starting out (not that I've been playing for very long, but you get the point.)
Re: level speed. I feel like I level MUCH faster in CO, especially considering I've been soloing 99.9% of the way. Having the level cap 10 levels lower helps with that too of course.
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Hold down left mouse to spin the camera around.| I don't know that you can camera pan around while flying. If you go into your options you can turn off the "always face forward" thing so you can rotate your camera around and get screenies. |
Oh, and here's another cool picture of my guy meditating by a volcano. Just because.
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Yeah I level much faster solo to solo in CO than COH. Solo to even 15 takes some time while it's done very swiftly in CO. Teaming wise, not sure, haveing teamed in CO for any significant amounts of time, and teaming at low levels, assuming with a brave team that handles +2 or at the very least +1, then it's quick. Given that it seems the reward bonus for teaming is not much CO side, it would seem teaming to level is where COH have edge. Solo, CO have the edge hands down. And even more so in later levels.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Re: level speed. I feel like I level MUCH faster in CO, especially considering I've been soloing 99.9% of the way. Having the level cap 10 levels lower helps with that too of course. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Champions Online cuts it for me.
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Even old dogs die eventually. But seems to some this one was put down early.
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Originally Posted by Xiang Shao
Champions Online cuts it for me.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Yeah, I think melee has improved a lot since then.|
Originally Posted by Zem
Has melee become viable in CO? I only tried the game for like a month when it launched and I seem to recall anything ranged I tried completely owning anything melee I tried. Unless I was just "doing it wrong". Unfortunately, my favorite CoH characters are Stalkers. In CO, I think I ended up playing dual pistols when what I really wanted was a sword-wielding Samurai Ninja Robot Cowboy. Was that too much to ask?
Cause CoH had it covered. |
My early memories were of running slowly towards enemies who trotted backwards at the same speed while shooting at you, and it was generally a pretty miserable experience.
This time round I've got a mainly Superstrong Brick-type character to 40 no worries, and a Martial Artist who relies on putting enemies down fast to the lower 30s without much frustration.
(Both character have a ranged attack for tagging runners, btw)
Melee Energy Builders now have a taunt when used at range, which stops the AI from kiting the way they used to. That, and the game just seems a bit easier with the gear thats given out at level 6, and some overall tweaks such as making offensive passives better.
Plus, I may have got better at playing this time round.
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Really?|
Originally Posted by Xiang Shao
Champions Online cuts it for me.
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Sorry, you set yourself up for that one...
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Melee's pretty viable.|
Originally Posted by Zem
Has melee become viable in CO? I only tried the game for like a month when it launched and I seem to recall anything ranged I tried completely owning anything melee I tried. Unless I was just "doing it wrong". Unfortunately, my favorite CoH characters are Stalkers. In CO, I think I ended up playing dual pistols when what I really wanted was a sword-wielding Samurai Ninja Robot Cowboy. Was that too much to ask?
Cause CoH had it covered. |
You want to take some sort of closing attack early on if possible. This basically is some sort of leap attack that jumps you right up in an enemy's face. Otherwise just running around at base speed, you get plinked to death eventually.
Also, Melee has Accelerated Metabolism, so other attacks besides your primaries can build energy (just not as dependably) for you. Tossing it in Havoc Stomp is great.
You have a couple types of attacks. Straight, click-and hit type powers and some "builder" type powers. You hold the button down and get an energy bar. The more you allow it to build up the more damage it does and additional effects happen.
Havoc Stomp:
By itself it does "okay" damage and can be spammed one after another, basically earthquaking your opponents to death.
Allowing it to build up makes it do significantly more damage (oneshotting some enemies) and some knock-up.
Allowing it to build all the way up tosses in a fairly decent mag KB as well.
Right now, my Hyperstrike analogue plays more like a Brute/Scrapper than a tank.
You want to get an AoE fairly early on as well. It makes taking on larger mobs much safer.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Hyper, AM in CO is largely considered a waste. Think of your advantage points like the slot crunch in COH, except at times more brutal. The goal should be to build your energy sustainability to a point that you don't need to rely on your energy builder at any point, and you can still use your attacks (obviously without AM) without depleting your energy, getting max damage out of them through either rank 3 or rank 2 with a good advantage- You can't maximize your attacks and still pick AM since there's a point limit per power. There are tons of advantages, and energy unlocks, that can help achieve that goal elsewhere in your build. I'm actually going to have to retcon quite a bit to get there on my character, but Molecular Self Assembly with INT as a superstat along with some other neat things like the force sheathe advantage in force shield, and then there's gear and characteristics/spec trees.
So, if I wanted to make a replacement for my Demons/FF MM in CO, what would I want to go for?
If there's no good pet set, then what's the closest I can get on the FF side?
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
Also, if you block in CO it will fill your blue bar, sometimes rather quickly too, at least on my behemoth it does. *though I hate that mechanic, it means your stuck not doing anything, I think*
Combat Kangaroos, Justice Server. First 50's
Jirra Roo Plant/Storm/Stone/Musculature Controller
Combat Kangaroo Rifle/Energy/Mace/Spiritual Blaster
Kung Fu Kangaroo Martial Arts/Reflexes/Body/Spiritual Scrapper
Tribal Arc Shield/Elec/Mu/Spiritual Tanker
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For Force Fields, grab Protection Field in Force - this allows you to bubble allies or yourself.|
Originally Posted by Rabid_M
So, if I wanted to make a replacement for my Demons/FF MM in CO, what would I want to go for?
If there's no good pet set, then what's the closest I can get on the FF side? |
You could also go with Inertial Dampening Field in Force and/or Aura of Radiant Protection in Radiant Sorcery as a slotted passive to make your pets tougher.
You get one slotted passive and one Form power, so pick these for some solid defence.
For Force field-ish attacks, try Force, or just go for the Sorcery attacks, depends what your concept is really.
Demon pets - Ritual of Ebon Summoning is the obvious one - gives you a pet demon who you can have permanently tagging along with the Unbound Ritual advantage.
Tyranon's Familiar and Void Horror also make good magical-looking permanent pets. Add in Air eleemtnal from the Air set if you can handle a genie tagging along.
The Ritual of Arcan Summoning gives you a Tron-ish looking robot ally, this is actually a Lemurian construct from the magic-using undersea kingdom, so tastes may vary.
Telepathy's Summon Nightmare is worth looking at - the pets here are temprary but change with rank, eg rank 1 gives you a static giant worm and a dog, Rank 2 is a dog and monster, and so on. Try this out in the Powerhouse - I found some things I liked in this set for my Martian Princess with a GL-style power ring.
You can defeinitely make a magical pet user who protects their pets. I find its best when transitioning a character to forget their CoX powers (which you didn't choose, after all, but were foisted on you as a whole set) and go back to the idea you had in your head.
Ego Choke or Ego Hold may suit you. Pyromancers Blade's (short lived fiery swords) may work for you, even though your CoX character couldn't do exactly that.
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You like Stalkers? ChO now has the slotted offensive ability for you! It's called "Night Warrior" I believe, and it gives you a stealth toggle and an assassin-strike-esque ability that can one-shot Super Villains. And when you're not one-shotting things from stealth I believe the passive also grants an overall damage bonus.
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Originally Posted by Zem
Has melee become viable in CO? I only tried the game for like a month when it launched and I seem to recall anything ranged I tried completely owning anything melee I tried. Unless I was just "doing it wrong". Unfortunately, my favorite CoH characters are Stalkers. In CO, I think I ended up playing dual pistols when what I really wanted was a sword-wielding Samurai Ninja Robot Cowboy. Was that too much to ask?
Cause CoH had it covered. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
Thanks. I may just have to try that.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
You like Stalkers? ChO now has the slotted offensive ability for you! It's called "Night Warrior" I believe, and it gives you a stealth toggle and an assassin-strike-esque ability that can one-shot Super Villains. And when you're not one-shotting things from stealth I believe the passive also grants an overall damage bonus.
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Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
Quote:
Night Avenger was the AT I wanted to try at the start (new silver here, stupid level 10 store restriction). As a non-free form, it can be a claws stalker (there's ranged options too, but no retractable claws options, just ones like the viper claws, take acrobatics and you've got a ninja running claws stalker in CO). The assassin's strike is stupid silly too good to be true powerful but at this point in time, I don't really mind some over powered silliness.|
Originally Posted by Zem
Thanks. I may just have to try that.
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The stealthed movement animation is a bit weird but I just leave my acrobatics on so I don't have to see the goofy default run.
My question is are all the paid (for silver) ATs more powerful than the free ones like the Night Avenger is or did I just hit the jackpot when I wanted to remake one of my favorites?
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Thanks for the info. That sounds like it may be just the information I'll need.
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Originally Posted by Dr Harmony
For Force Fields, grab Protection Field in Force - this allows you to bubble allies or yourself.
You could also go with Inertial Dampening Field in Force and/or Aura of Radiant Protection in Radiant Sorcery as a slotted passive to make your pets tougher. You get one slotted passive and one Form power, so pick these for some solid defence. For Force field-ish attacks, try Force, or just go for the Sorcery attacks, depends what your concept is really. Demon pets - Ritual of Ebon Summoning is the obvious one - gives you a pet demon who you can have permanently tagging along with the Unbound Ritual advantage. Tyranon's Familiar and Void Horror also make good magical-looking permanent pets. Add in Air eleemtnal from the Air set if you can handle a genie tagging along. The Ritual of Arcan Summoning gives you a Tron-ish looking robot ally, this is actually a Lemurian construct from the magic-using undersea kingdom, so tastes may vary. Telepathy's Summon Nightmare is worth looking at - the pets here are temprary but change with rank, eg rank 1 gives you a static giant worm and a dog, Rank 2 is a dog and monster, and so on. Try this out in the Powerhouse - I found some things I liked in this set for my Martian Princess with a GL-style power ring. You can defeinitely make a magical pet user who protects their pets. I find its best when transitioning a character to forget their CoX powers (which you didn't choose, after all, but were foisted on you as a whole set) and go back to the idea you had in your head. Ego Choke or Ego Hold may suit you. Pyromancers Blade's (short lived fiery swords) may work for you, even though your CoX character couldn't do exactly that. |
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
In confusion, I jumped to the forums and asked for help, where I was informed that I'd just been "renting" the costume pieces and freeform character slot for the price of their monthly fee.
And after getting all that sorted out, the game gets shut down on them, so maybe not better in sum after all...
That we're just "renting" in these MMOGs is an unfortunate truth.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound