Champions Online: just doesn't cut it.
By
Ael Rhiana,
Posted on: 2012-10-06 24:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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"15 minutes?" Doubtful. The most common estimate I've read on these boards and CO's is an hour.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
If you're not silver you can also skip the tutorial and start at level 6 though. Getting from 6 to 10 takes, what.. 15 minutes max?
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yea
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
That's all well and good on an end game build. But my free form character with basic gear drops in CO was soloing +3 level mobs in the equivelant of say, x5 groups at level 20. I've never made or seen a character in COH running only SO's that can comfortably solo +3x5 at level 20 (excluding Claws/Fire only running juiced up advantageous AE farm maps.) And CO doesn't even have inspirations. I soloed all the comic books and adventure packs from 20-25, again with basic gear. I've never soloed TF's in COH during that level range using only SO's, and even if I did it would have taken twice as long and been twice as tedious with less than half the production value in the content.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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Hmm interesting. From what I see on the boards, it's more than 15 min on average but some people may have done it in 15. It takes about 30 for me, never an hour yet, and some people probably take more than an hour. Given I was taking my time for 30 mins, I suppose that if a person get on it and go from mission to mission and not clowning around in between missions, then 15 is very doable. Someone might have done it in ten. Got some speed demons out there.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
"15 minutes?" Doubtful. The most common estimate I've read on these boards and CO's is an hour.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Speed demons are speed demons. They probably don't even read whatever briefing that even exists. Personally? I like to make sure I'm informed of everything going on and approach with a plan (if one's needed). One reason I've never liked speed runs in CoH.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Hmm interesting. From what I see on the boards, it's more than 15 min on average but some people may have done it in 15. It takes about 30 for me, never an hour yet, and some people probably take more than an hour. Given I was taking my time for 30 mins, I suppose that if a person get on it and go from mission to mission and not clowning around in between missions, then 15 is very doable. Someone might have done it in ten. Got some speed demons out there.
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You and me both.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Speed demons are speed demons. They probably don't even read whatever briefing that even exists. Personally? I like to make sure I'm informed of everything going on and approach with a plan (if one's needed). One reason I've never liked speed runs in CoH.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Well. once you play the first mission chain for the 50th time (since there's only one, and no DFB to use to skip to the more interesting stuff) you dont need to read the text.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Speed demons are speed demons. They probably don't even read whatever briefing that even exists. Personally? I like to make sure I'm informed of everything going on and approach with a plan (if one's needed). One reason I've never liked speed runs in CoH.
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I've made so many characters I have every mission, every map, every bug of Kodiaks arc memorized, and one a good soloable toon I can do it in the mentioned ~20 minutes. Give or take some time when I get depressingly bored of it.
Of course, thats with a soloable toon. Others take longer. Anything ranged thats not focused on high burst damage is a pain. Buffers are a pain. Surprisingly the Superstrength AT is sort of a pain since it's better powers come later. *shrugs*
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That's nice. Not all of us are going to be going through it the 50th time, though. And with as much stuff I read (I read lots of stuff), sometimes I need a refresher occasionally.
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Originally Posted by Vyver
Well. once you play the first mission chain for the 50th time (since there's only one, and no DFB to use to skip to the more interesting stuff) you dont need to read the text.
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Personally I never sit down and read everything in any game, I just scan the text enough to know what the objectives are if it isn't glaringly obvious (which nine times out of ten, it is.)
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Originally Posted by Scythus
That's nice. Not all of us are going to be going through it the 50th time, though. And with as much stuff I read (I read lots of stuff), sometimes I need a refresher occasionally.
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Currently my characters with slotted defensive passives feel as sturdy as if not sturdier than my tanks here.
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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
That's disheartening. The ability to get that sort of near-invulnerability is what I love about CoH melee classes. Superman and the Hulk don't require someone behind them casting healing spells on them in order to win fights, why should I have to?
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Just took a few more screenshots. I think the first really shows that all faces don't necessarily have to be identical. I did quite a bit of tweaking with the scales on this. The second is my armor-y costume for my tank build, and the third is my civilian clothes while I chill in my basement hideout.
A few thinks discussed in the last 2-3 pages
Pets:
There controllable and non-controllable pets. Aside from devices there are not human pets, maybe due to CO being a hero only deal, and the concept of henchmen sounds a bit out of place. While CoH structure might give some interesting results, CO freeform lets you to have some interesting combination:
Beastmaster: command animals, primal summoning(wolfs), artic wolf.
Robotic master: munition bots, healing bots, toy bots, arcane summoning(magic robotical creatures)
Tanking:
Tanking is more complicated in CO, especially with no tanking aura. Getting aggro on all mobs is recommended and there are several AoE powers that tends to do the trick if there is no loose cannon on the team.
The survivability of a tank is dependent mostly on the build, dodge/avoidance(big bosses), defense(crowds of minions) or a combination. My tank is pretty sturdy in most situations except a few bosses with deadly poison or reflect damage.
It is true that lairs cannot be done easily by doing herding or mass crowd control, it goes more to the traditional trinity.
Notes: there are no inspirations but there are buffs that appears on the floor and there are devices for healing/defense/shield.
Having finally hit 10 with a character and opened up a lot of stuff (including being able to throw money at them to try the AT I thought might be one that'd get me to throw more money at them) I have to say, what the hell were they thinking locking all those costume parts (and everything else) behind level 10?!?
I may be the oddball in this case but if there's a free trial, I do that, then if it I like it I might subscribe, not subscribe and then see if I like it (or are golds locked until 10 as well?). The costume creator is the first thing you see, why you'd limit that part so much (but then shortly toss you into talents, specs and power abilities with little useful explanation of ratings and whatnot) is beyond me.
While not the same type of claws as claws, the Night Avenger has claws and stealth and acrobatics is basically ninja run, so at this initial stage, I am happy with my money thrown in Cryptic's direction. I would have been a lot happier if I could have just done so from the start. Seeing that the gear is six slots I'm a bit less apprehensive of that aspect. My windows install might be getting some use again.
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And I'll never understand why anyone can do that. The story (motivation) is as important to me as the task.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Personally I never sit down and read everything in any game, I just scan the text enough to know what the objectives are if it isn't glaringly obvious (which nine times out of ten, it is.)
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I just like gameplay, but environment is important to me. Story is sort of relevant to that- I like the superhero world, I don't like dragons or epic asian quest worlds. But I also don't care about the involved lore or bad guys, lol. I play games for fun. In CO, I like beating up guys in purple hats, I like beating up robot cowboys, I like beating up mechanical sharks. It's campy and fun. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
And I'll never understand why anyone can do that. The story (motivation) is as important to me as the task.
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The general gist of the story is summed up in the cut scenes anyways. This isn't exactly Kierkegaard- You're a super hero and you fight generic evil bad guys for great lol's, comical moments and entertainment.
I've always been annoyed by the COH lore crowd, even though I love COH. I mean, to me, it's a fun super hero game. The intelligent, involved aspect of the game has always been end game character building since I started playing. I think I have a decent understanding of COH lore, but I only picked it up by accident while playing a fun video game. It's just not important to me.
If I wanted to become involved in the content of great walls of text I would be reading Kafka, not the dialogue in super hero video games. At least CO doesn't make the mistake of taking itself too seriously in that respect, and I'm very grateful in that respect. It's a tremendous breath of fresh air.
I was one of those silly, misguided people who bought a lifetime subscription to CO back when it first launched. I obviously had high hopes for it but after a couple of months I stopped playing and haven't really logged into it since. The end of CoH might motivate me enough to try it again, but I'm honestly not too optimistic about it. *shrugs*
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yeah.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I just like gameplay, but environment is important to me. Story is sort of relevant to that- I like the superhero world, I don't like dragons or epic asian quest worlds. But I also don't care about the involved lore or bad guys, lol. I play games for fun. In CO, I like beating up guys in purple hats, I like beating up robot cowboys, I like beating up mechanical sharks. It's campy and fun.
The general gist of the story is summed up in the cut scenes anyways. This isn't exactly Kierkegaard- You're a super hero and you fight generic evil bad guys for great lol's, comical moments and entertainment. I've always been annoyed by the COH lore crowd, even though I love COH. I mean, to me, it's a fun super hero game. The intelligent, involved aspect of the game has always been end game character building since I started playing. I think I have a decent understanding of COH lore, but I only picked it up by accident while playing a fun video game. It's just not important to me. If I wanted to become involved in the content of great walls of text I would be reading Kafka, not the dialogue in super hero video games. At least CO doesn't make the mistake of taking itself too seriously in that respect, and I'm very grateful in that respect. It's a tremendous breath of fresh air. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Are you implying an immersive story can't be fun? As a frequent reader of fiction and aspiring author, I have a major bone to pick with you if you think so. I like to know what the evil robot cowboys and sharks have been doing to cause my hero to be called in to pound them. Which brings us to....|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I just like gameplay, but environment is important to me. Story is sort of relevant to that- I like the superhero world, I don't like dragons or epic asian quest worlds. But I also don't care about the involved lore or bad guys, lol. I play games for fun. In CO, I like beating up guys in purple hats, I like beating up robot cowboys, I like beating up mechanical sharks. It's campy and fun.
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| The general gist of the story is summed up in the cut scenes anyways. This isn't exactly Kierkegaard- You're a super hero and you fight generic evil bad guys for great lol's, comical moments and entertainment. |
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| I've always been annoyed by the COH lore crowd, even though I love COH. I mean, to me, it's a fun super hero game. The intelligent, involved aspect of the game has always been end game character building since I started playing. I think I have a decent understanding of COH lore, but I only picked it up by accident while playing a fun video game. It's just not important to me. |
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| If I wanted to become involved in the content of great walls of text I would be reading Kafka, not the dialogue in super hero video games. At least CO doesn't make the mistake of taking itself too seriously in that respect, and I'm very grateful in that respect. It's a tremendous breath of fresh air. |
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No, I'm saying that it doesn't entertain me in this format. I love literature, I read quite a bit. It's sort of hard to go from Infinite Jest to "Defeat the super villain on screen bad guys" and still presume to take the latter seriously.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Are you implying an immersive story can't be fun? As a frequent reader of fiction and aspiring author, I have a major bone to pick with you if you think so. I like to know what the evil robot cowboys and sharks have been doing to cause my hero to be called in to pound them. Which brings us to....
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| Actually I always thought super heroes fight villains because the villains were breaking the law or threatening the world, not because they wanted to have an "lol" and be entertained. |
When Captain States-'Merica gets killed by that level 20 contact in the purple jumpsuit, you actually think it carries emotional weight?
When Sister Psyche takes an arrow to the knee.. er, chest, you're actually more concerned about her dying than you are about how in the HELL she managed to "threaten the lives" of everyone in Paragon city when:
A.) You can't even target citizens!
But even if you could...
B.) She was WAY past the target cap!
COH thinks its stories matter. I like that CO knows better.
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| Well, unfortunately I prefer more depth than... "I beat up villains because I can." That's why the story is important to me. I wouldn't bother with a lot of games if it wasn't for the story. Heck, even the old game Donkey Kong had a plot (albeit very limited): save the girl from the big gorilla. |
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| CoH's story is hardly on the level of Kafka. That's comparing apples and carrots. |
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| CoH is no more deep than the comic book medium it's inspired by. I view skipping the CoH writing as skipping the word balloons in comics and just looking at the pictures. |
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Well, it doesn't need to be taken seriously on the same level. But I'd still like to understand what is going on and why my hero needs to stop this. Otherwise my character is just a robot without personality.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
No, I'm saying that it doesn't entertain me in this format. I love literature, I read quite a bit. It's sort of hard to go from Infinite Jest to "Defeat the super villain on screen bad guys" and still presume to take the latter seriously.
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I actually view it more like going from reading Infinite Jest to reading something lighter like Conan or some other classic pulp story.
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| So when Bad BaB chugs a beer and flexes his muscles, you actually take it seriously? :| |
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When Captain States-'Merica gets killed by that level 20 contact in the purple jumpsuit, you actually think it carries emotional weight? When Sister Psyche takes an arrow to the knee.. er, chest, you're actually more concerned about her dying than you are about how in the HELL she managed to "threaten the lives" of everyone in Paragon city when: A.) You can't even target citizens! But even if you could... B.) She was WAY past the target cap! |
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COH thinks its stories matter. I like that CO knows better. Well then maybe you should start reading books. I'm sure you'll be able to appreciate video games more when you need a break from literature. |
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| This just in: The sky is also blue! But for the record, it's more like comparing the most pristine fruit in the world to something that anyone could make a strong case for being inedible. |
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| I never got into comics myself. I did grow up on super hero cartoons though, and I've always thought it was a neat environment. I'm sure that Freud would have an explanation for this. |
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Originally Posted by Scythus
"15 minutes?" Doubtful. The most common estimate I've read on these boards and CO's is an hour.
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Well, with CO you can pick up multiple missions from CO, and some of them overlap.
Like Kodiak. You have one to be up X number of Purples and another one to rescue shopkeepers (who're being attacked by Purples).
So for the various hunt-style missions it's it's easy to multitask.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I have to agree. If CoH was about wonderful story telling it would never have lasted the first 6 years of really awful stories.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
No, I'm saying that it doesn't entertain me in this format. I love literature, I read quite a bit. It's sort of hard to go from Infinite Jest to "Defeat the super villain on screen bad guys" and still presume to take the latter seriously.
So when Bad BaB chugs a beer and flexes his muscles, you actually take it seriously? :| When Captain States-'Merica gets killed by that level 20 contact in the purple jumpsuit, you actually think it carries emotional weight? When Sister Psyche takes an arrow to the knee.. er, chest, you're actually more concerned about her dying than you are about how in the HELL she managed to "threaten the lives" of everyone in Paragon city when: A.) You can't even target citizens! But even if you could... B.) She was WAY past the target cap! COH thinks its stories matter. I like that CO knows better. Well then maybe you should start reading books. I'm sure you'll be able to appreciate video games more when you need a break from literature. This just in: The sky is also blue! But for the record, it's more like comparing the most pristine fruit in the world to something that anyone could make a strong case for being inedible. I never got into comics myself. I did grow up on super hero cartoons though, and I've always thought it was a neat environment. I'm sure that Freud would have an explanation for this. |
Or lets look at some of the great story telling.
Original Positron: per war witch "We changed it so it doesn't suck anymore
Synapse a TF people have described as painful.
Citadel: Lets fight not quite Nazis in a cave.
Manticore: Well we put in all these bosses that when you are about to kill them they make you wait.
Numina: Pray there isn't an event happening during the hunt phase.
ITF: Well for some reason the real Nazis decided giant robots were needed to conquer a time period where the most advanced material was wood and high tech weapons were powered by animal sinew. You might thing Panzer of Tiger tanks would have worked. Oh why we are at it lets commit wholesale slaughter along the way.
Just how many Romans has this game consigned to perdition ?
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+1. I lost it.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Just how many Romans has this game consigned to perdition ?
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That segues into one major difference I've noticed between CO and CoX. Just look at the body count over the past two years:|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Just how many Romans has this game consigned to perdition ?
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Statesman, Psyche, Malaise (though well deserved), a good number of Midnighters, and then the thousands of sailors disintegrated aboard their ships.
The destruction in Galaxy City when the Shivans struck.
The destruction in Kings Row and Steel Canyon when Battle Maiden attacked.
The destruction in Skyway City when Fusion and Jane Tremblor dual-teched.
Whoever didn't make it out of Nova Praetoria before Tyrant threw his tantrum.
Not to mention the untold lost once Hamidon went after Praetoria again.
The untold number lost after Dark Astoria re-awakened.
CoX had good writing, to be sure. I still have yet to find as heroic an adventure anywhere as One Good Spider. A lot of it, though, was downright depressing. Sure, we saved the world several times over, only after a good chunk of good and innocent people lost their lives. And a good number of them lost their souls too. Over time, it kinda harshed my heroic groove. I still haven't had any of my alts actually complete the DA arc.
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It's probably already been said, or something similar enough, but I'll add my feedback (Sorry, everyone, I didn't read the entire thread. 
)
I bought CO back in '09 when it first came out and I was... selectively pleased. The graphics were a step up, but everything felt either overpowered, gimped, or just clunky.
Finally, when I tried to get back into the game in '12, I realized that almost half of the costume pieces I'd used and loved were made unavailable to me, as well as the characters I'd left behind.
In confusion, I jumped to the forums and asked for help, where I was informed that I'd just been "renting" the costume pieces and freeform character slot for the price of their monthly fee.
After paying their $50, I was in no better a place than those who had just downloaded the game that day.
I sighed, told the community that this was not likely the game for me, and I left without looking back. It felt really shady to me.
Yeah, exactly this. (Though replace "Vorpal" with "Ion"). With resistances on my Elec/Invuln Brute hitting 80% with Resilient Alpha (and 90% with Resilient Alpha and the new Set bonuses on the Test server), I feel like nothing (other than Psi and some Incarnate Trial bos
That's all well and good on an end game build. But my free form character with basic gear drops in CO was soloing +3 level mobs in the equivelant of say, x5 groups at level 20. I've never made or seen a character in COH running only SO's that can comfortably solo +3x5 at level 20 (excluding Claws/Fire only running juiced up advantageous AE farm maps.) And CO doesn't even have inspirations. I soloed all the comic books and adventure packs from 20-25, again with basic gear. I've never soloed TF's in COH during that level range using only SO's, and even if I did it would have taken twice as long and been twice as tedious with less than half the production value in the content.