Why bother?

Ah, so all this is because you are BORED. Good to know; now please go back over to WoW or whatever it is you play now, content that you are superior to everyone in the City.

Generally speaking, one thing that greatly amuses me when reading the responses to our efforts, is the supposition by WoW players that their game is somewhow superior and they will never face a sunset. *splutter* yeah right "CoH is old, it needs a sunset. WoW is great!" as if WoW isn't even older than this game.

The two are not really extricable. This game's recent improvements are a function of its dev team. It would not be what it is without them. Which is, naturally, one of the concerns we all have knowing the core team was laid off and need to be out looking for other jobs.

If a miracle shows up and the game as it exists now gets to continue and/or restart somewhere else, I would play it. I would be concerned about where it would go from there without at least some of the existing development team behind it.

Beyond that, I do care about this dev team because they have been fantastic at engagement of their game's community. They not only made overt, direct use of our feedback, many of them communicated their own thoughts and intentions back to us on a scale unique in the MMO scene as far as I can tell.

The fact that NCSoft is no longer going to be the publisher of CoH doesn't mean they simply want CoH to dry up and blow away. This is why there are actually talks going on right now with NCSoft about the future of the game.

If NCSoft was actually trying to kill the game, they'd have rebuffed talks on the subject.


Yes. No. Maybe. Corporate strategy and politics are as murky as their public bretheren.

Yes. Some day, CoH will probably be turned off for good. At this point, it's not because it wasn't making money. And, if NCSoft and the people talking with them can come to terms, it won't be in the near future either. And, if and when that day comes, hopefully a worthy successor product by the same studio is already in use.

Nobody is asking for NCSoft to remain the publisher. A new publisher is needed, someone with a more personal stake in the game.

It is damaged by the closure announcement. Had NC let people at Paragon know they were considering closing the title before making the announcement, the dealings we're currently talking about could have happened out of the public eye and there simply would have been an announcement that Paragon Studios had been spun off into its own entity.

Still, a LOT of advertising "hay" can be made of a game that was saved by the heroes it spawned.

That's if NCSoft were to remain the publisher. That's not going to happen. And that's really not in their or our best interest. A new publisher needs to be found (or formulated). Again, said publisher should have some kind of personal tie to the game.

Easier said than done.

Again, easier said than done. Both sides have rules about how their funding systems may be used. Something like that could inhibit a kickstart campaign.

Also, how do you legitimately assign ownership when essentially one person is in charge of the funds?

Also, are you stepping all over any possible dealings by Paragon to rescue themselves?

Coordination like this doesn't come easy or fast.

Also, did it occur to you that NCSoft might be interested in things besides just raw dollar signs?

Wow. Now we need a business version of the standard code rant.

Sorry, but armchair-exec'ing here doesn't help.


You've glossed over so many "brass tack" issues it's not even funny.




Setting up a corporation is relatively easy. Sure.

Actually setting up a business organization to RUN things is harder.
And negotiating with a property holder who has demands beyond the strictly monetary harder still.

Never assume.

And, honestly, you don't want your developer as the person in charge of the business aspect of the game. Sorry. You just don't. You hire someone who knows how to run a business. Who actually can sit down and count the beans when necessary. Not the guy who goes "I have code to get out, maybe later."

Hit up the Titan forums. Something like this is already in the planning stages.

Okay straight question for you. Do you, you Durakken, know how much it costs to start up a studio? Do you know what's INVOLVED in starting up a studio?

Yes. Some of the things involved can be made to go away simply by throwing money at it. Others can't.

You're forgetting there has to be coordination between the developers and the community for something like this to happen.

Going out, buying something, and then giving it to someone else and telling them "here, get to work" doesn't always fly.

Also, what happens the first time they make a decision one of these people doesn't like?

Again, it's not always a matter of just throwing money at something.

Not that hard to do? The reek of bovine feces is overwhelming me here.

Okay, you've just proved you know jack squat about the dev team.

What's the term? Oh yeah. "Willfully ignorant."

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

Actually I think this is more along the lines of the posts he used to make in the old SGU threads where he makes uninformed comments about an episode from what he saw briefly in the advertisements for the next weeks episode. Then someone that actually watched the episode would post excerpts from the script along with a time stamp where it could be located during the episode (at 23:14 characters say . . . or "x" happens) proving him wrong.

So what I believe we are seeing is Durakken saw something in passing or observed a part of a conversation in the game, and as usual he let his imagination fill in the rest without doing any further research and then he proceeded to post following the example MentalMaiden provided.

And of course since in his own mind he can't possibly be wrong he's instinctively defensive.

Bam.

Yup. We don't care enough to buy them buy them dinner last night! I believe that over $1,000 was raised by this community in about 90mins for the dinner.

Yup we don't care at all.

and now here is a llink

Considering you said earlier that you "never said anything about the negotians with NCsoft. Don't know. Don't care." (your exact words there), I'm having a somewhat hard time believing you there. Not to mention that, y'know, the facts don't support your statement there.

Like I said before: if it's so simple, go ahead and get started. I doubt you'll succeed, but I'm man enough to admit I can be wrong. So go ahead. Show me I'm wrong. Put your money where your mouth is, as they say.

Why ask why?

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

It's not that. What we're getting bent out about is Durakken belittling the efforts of the people who are trying to save this game by saying things like that it would 'so easy' to do it by 'just' getting a pile of money together and tossing it at NCSoft. He doesn't understand that the business world doesn't work that way and is insulting the people putting in the effort to organize things (like negotiating with NCSoft to convince them to let the IP go) by telling them he knows better and their work is a waste of time. That's what we're getting bent out about here.

I'd slash my own wrists, the proper way od slashing a wrist. No "help me" cuts. If that was my situation that is. I couldnt live a few months left and knowing that is the end. I'd just check out early.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Try Bud Dry.

On second thought, don't. While I haven't personally tried it, I can't imagine it's any good. But I'm not a beer drinker.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

why bother?

That's what you got out of what I said and while it is a waste of time in my opinion, because it is only postponing the innevitable and wasting money on something that could be spent in other places, but if that's what you want to waste time and money on. Go right ahead.

There is nothing "valuable" in my estimation about the game other than nostalgia, history, and brand name. And while those are nice to have sometimes, it is not the should be focused on. Are you really telling me that the devs can't create a newer better engine? or newer better lore? or newer better mechanics? i don't buy that for a second, but that's what trying to save this game really does. You're fighting for something that could be outdone in short order if you were to allow them to move on as a team.

For bringing in new capital that a start up needs to get going the only thing that is valuable out of those 3 things is the brand name which holds only a small amount of value, but even that with enough of a loyal fan base word of mouth would spread that it is the same people and thus in that sense isn't that valuable either. The only value then of buying the IP is the lore. And while it is cool it'd be like saying that an artist should just keep painting their first painting because it's so awesome as it is, rather than taking those skills and creating something altogether new and likely better.

Skip the buying the IP which will cost all that money, keep the team together, and create a new IP with the funds that you would spend on something that has relatively little value for what you'd pay for it. And maybe you find this all insulting that I would say your efforts are in folly, but they are. No matter what the result is, the best you can hope for is paying several million dollars for a game that due to these hits will continue to lose money likely only lasting a few more years before the numbers become too low to maintain anything more than the lights on with 2 of the 4 or 5 years left the game likely has left (now that it was hit with this) being in the red. And then where does this start up go from there? Nowhere because it doesn't have the money so it either dies or needs new investors and you are back at this same situation, pushed 5 years down road, working with a system that wasn't all that great to begin with from everything that is said.

If you take the money you'd pay for the IP and dump it into a new IP you might be in the red for the same amount of time, but the game "should" be better, you have a clean slate with new fans, and the IP is likely better and you will have a lot more profit in the end.

Assuming people follow the dev team with what they do Buying the game gives you a steady decline while building a new game the risk is virtually the same but it has a much higher RoI for an investor because there is always that spike of new people that are curious.

So in the end all you are doing is wasting time and effort if you are looking for the best possible product and profit. If you're goal is simply to tarnish NCSoft... You're doing a decent job. Or if your goal is to get your game back it's a crap shoot, but I'd bet your largely wasting your time and even if it works out you're going to get a much diminished product.

Congratulations, you just repeated what I'd already said in a much less eloquent manner. Good job.

Again, I heartily invite you to put your money where your mouth is. Right now, you are doing nothing useful. You're just telling the people who are trying to do something that you know better - so show it. Do something. If you really do know better, it'll obviously work, right? So why are you still here instead of enacting your amazing plan?

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Some things never change!