Why bother?
No one has been asking NCSoft to keep the game running, we've been trying to get them to sell it to another publisher or studio (the most optimal solution is selling it to Paragon Studios and letting them be their own studio, in the same way that CCP was allowed to split off and buy EVE from Simon & Schuster years ago and became their own studio and publisher). This is a HUGE distinction that people shouldn't be confused about this late in the process (especially because it might lead to other people being confused about it, too). There are ZERO efforts aimed at getting NCSoft to keep running the game.
What you're suggesting about US buying the game has already been discussed, a lot, here and on the Titan Network. Our ability to crowd-fund several million dollars has been a sticking point in every discussion.
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It is more complicated than that. Paragon Studios isn't a publicly traded company; you can't buy it unless NCSoft agrees to sell it. NCSoft has not yet given an indication that they are willing to do so, other than rumors of talks taking place with the Paragon Studios management.
I would love for NCSoft to name a price and allow us to try and crowdsource funds for it, but unless they do, you can't set a fund raising target because you don't know what they would actually sell it to you for. Further, you can't just fund raise as the playerbase; you need to incorporate as an entity that can actually do multi-million dollar deals, which means you have to found some type of corporation or non-profit entity. This requires legal resources and has tax implications that could severely burn those setting it up if they do it wrong, and takes time to do. Things get further complicated because everyone has a different idea of what exactly buying the game would entail and how it would be run post-acquisition.
And that is mostly why no credible attempts have been made to buy the game via crowdsourced funding--yet. I hope it gets a chance to happen, I have a decent chunk of cash blocked out from my budget in case we do get that chance, but am not holding my breath. I know I wouldn't want to be trying to set up a corporation to do this, so I am not terribly surprised noone else is either.
No one has been asking NCSoft to keep the game running, we've been trying to get them to sell it to another publisher or studio (the most optimal solution is selling it to Paragon Studios and letting them be their own studio, in the same way that CCP was allowed to split off and buy EVE from Simon & Schuster years ago and became their own studio and publisher). This is a HUGE distinction that people shouldn't be confused about this late in the process (especially because it might lead to other people being confused about it, too). There are ZERO efforts aimed at getting NCSoft to keep running the game.
What you're suggesting about US buying the game has already been discussed, a lot, here and on the Titan Network. Our ability to crowd-fund several million dollars has been a sticking point in every discussion. |
Which is different to what is happening here.
So I say, why not do something relatively unique. You claim you have a great community here so why not try something more community based. As a community BUY the game. BUY Paragon Studios. Put up the money via kick starter or indiegogo or one of those sites. Show that you mean business with hard cash and grab control of the game that is as much if not more yours as it is theirs. All you are doing currently doing is relying on other people to work out the stuff with their money. You want it. You buy it. That's capitalism and we now have tools to do it so why not? |
Buddy, go back to lurking. Seriously.
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It is more complicated than that. Paragon Studios isn't a publicly traded company; you can't buy it unless NCSoft agrees to sell it. NCSoft has not yet given an indication that they are willing to do so, other than rumors of talks taking place with the Paragon Studios management.
I would love for NCSoft to name a price and allow us to try and crowdsource funds for it, but unless they do, you can't set a fund raising target because you don't know what they would actually sell it to you for. Further, you can't just fund raise as the playerbase; you need to incorporate as an entity that can actually do multi-million dollar deals, which means you have to found some type of corporation or non-profit entity. This requires legal resources and has tax implications that could severely burn those setting it up if they do it wrong, and takes time to do. Things get further complicated because everyone has a different idea of what exactly buying the game would entail and how it would be run post-acquisition. And that is mostly why no credible attempts have been made to buy the game via crowdsourced funding--yet. I hope it gets a chance to happen, I have a decent chunk of cash blocked out from my budget in case we do get that chance, but am not holding my breath. I know I wouldn't want to be trying to set up a corporation to do this, so I am not terribly surprised noone else is either. |
Who would set it up is easy. I would assume one of the head developer.
There is also another strategy. Plan to develop a new game and start now, if you can't get CoH, the game, maintain the spirit. There is nothing that says that you have to raise the money to buy that game because what is really important is the dev team and community so set a goal based on that figure and if you can buy the IP and such, great, if not, sink that into a newer better venture that is the "spiritual" successor.
Game companies and various enterprises have already raised insane amounts of cash and to say that you're worried you can't while bragging about your community is pathetic. And any amount you would need to buy CoH would likely be enough, several times over to fund development for a new game.
What was the number of petitioners? 18,000? If each of them instead of signing that petition were to have donated to such a cause the VIP sub amount for 1 quarter it would 1.08million dollars and that is more than enough to get dedicated developers to working on something, but then I believe that this community is somewhat loyal and the devs do care enough to stay on with that budget.
The question really then comes down to are you about community and loyalty to the developers or do you just want your game.
"...if not, sink that into a newer better venture that is the "spiritual" successor."
Now this might not be the worst idea. I admit I have not kept up on ALL the efforts and whats going on, but have any of the Dev's said they would be willing, with start-up cash provided by the community, to do this?
I know I would drop a lifetime sub for something that I knew was going to have the same feel and flair of CoX, but under a different name. That cash would fly from my wallet so fast it would make my wifes head spin. And I'm talking sight unseen with the game even. Just lemme know that the folks at Paragon were putting together a new hero game, and Im there.
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All you are doing currently doing is relying on other people to work out the stuff with their money.
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As a community BUY the game. BUY Paragon Studios. Put up the money via kick starter or indiegogo or one of those sites. Show that you mean business with hard cash and grab control of the game that is as much if not more yours as it is theirs.
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is about as wrong as can be. Thus far, NCSoft has made no indication whatsoever that they'd be willing to sell CoH and Paragon Studios - to anybody - rather than just can the whole lot, despite currently ongoing negotiations with the Paragon Studios leads. That doesn't mean there's not a chance of it still happening mind you, but it's nowhere near as 'easily handled' as you believe. The business world is a lot more complex than you realize, and frankly I find it insulting that you're mouthing off with this attitude when you clearly have no idea what's going on.
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and obviously your so-called 'watching' is extremely limited in scope, otherwise you wouldn't be saying things like:
So I suggest you do some actual watching, which will quickly show you that your 'unique idea' of: |
is about as wrong as can be. Thus far, NCSoft has made no indication whatsoever that they'd be willing to sell CoH and Paragon Studios - to anybody - rather than just can the whole lot, despite currently ongoing negotiations with the Paragon Studios leads. That doesn't mean there's not a chance of it still happening mind you, but it's nowhere near as 'easily handled' as you believe. The business world is a lot more complex than you realize, and frankly I find it insulting that you're mouthing off with this attitude when you clearly have no idea what's going on. |
Oh and I never said anything about the negotians with NCsoft. Don't know. Don't care. My comment was to how to handle ownership if you were to make a player own company which would require contracts and such, but that's not really all that hard to do.
I My comment was to how to handle ownership if you were to make a player own company which would require contracts and such, but that's not really all that hard to do.
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/breathe deeply
Hahahahahahahahahahahahha!
Yeah, it would be so simple. Gosh people what were you thinking???????
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
"...if not, sink that into a newer better venture that is the "spiritual" successor."
Now this might not be the worst idea. I admit I have not kept up on ALL the efforts and whats going on, but have any of the Dev's said they would be willing, with start-up cash provided by the community, to do this? I know I would drop a lifetime sub for something that I knew was going to have the same feel and flair of CoX, but under a different name. That cash would fly from my wallet so fast it would make my wifes head spin. And I'm talking sight unseen with the game even. Just lemme know that the folks at Paragon were putting together a new hero game, and Im there. |
I never said the idea is unique. I said that the event would be unique.
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First of all, It's always amazing that people don't realize the power of slapping the million down over saying that you can do it, and this uncertainty of "I'd do it! I really really would, but I don't know how much you want...so I can't" is utter idiocy.
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Do you not understand that the action alone would draw so much more attention from media and other companies that would go "oh hey if they will do that that how can we get in on that."
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Oh and I never said anything about the negotians with NCsoft. Don't know. Don't care.
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Well hey then, why don't you go ahead and get started on that so that if we get NCSoft to sell (and to us, not one of the other companies we're trying to get interested in Para...oh wait, you said you didn't care about that, nevermind), we'll have all the 'contracts and such'?
"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
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Why would a community do that? They care about the game. Not the dev team, which should really make any creative person sad.
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What turgid, trog infested rock did YOU crawl out from under? Kindly get back there and go back to sleep. It's better for everyone that way.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
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Someone who's familiar with Durakken, please tell me if we're being trolled.
All I remember about him is when he made that City of Heroes Lore wiki (and worked his butt off on it for a couple weeks before forgetting about it and eventually letting the domain lapse). Fortunately, all of that content made it over to the Titan Network's Paragon Wiki, because I loved what Durakken managed to pull together. His master timeline was and is epic.
But then I see this and it's like seriously, main screen turn on what is this I don't even know???
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Someone who's familiar with Durakken, please tell me if we're being trolled.
All I remember about him is when he made that City of Heroes Lore wiki (and worked his butt off on it for a couple weeks before forgetting about it and eventually letting the domain lapse). Fortunately, all of that content made it over to the Titan Network's Paragon Wiki, because I loved what Durakken managed to pull together. His master timeline was and is epic. But then I see this and it's like seriously, main screen turn on what is this I don't even know??? |
See a topic.
Think of a completely contrarian stance on said topic.
Make a long winded, unrealistic, weak and uninformed argument for your stance.
Make sure and argue no matter how many facts, stats or truths are stated by others. Never give in no matter how silly you look.
Make some type of insult implying people's intellectual inferiority confuses you.
Ignore anything remotely factual, truthful, level headed, reasoned or correct.
Rinse. Repeat in as many threads as possible.
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Oh, you already answered that then. You do not understand how things like this work and that they have to be carefully negotiated. Got it.
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Well hey then, why don't you go ahead and get started on that so that if we get NCSoft to sell (and to us, not one of the other companies we're trying to get interested in Para...oh wait, you said you didn't care about that, nevermind), we'll have all the 'contracts and such'? |
Durakken, obvious trolling aside, it was said at one point (by a redname, IIRC - Zwill?) that a Kickstarter campaign can't be used here, because this is an established, owned property, and Kickstarter doesn't allow that kind of funding.
A Pay Pal account would be the only feasible way, but I can't imagine a community of private citizens has the kind of liquid capital that would be needed.
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
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Uh...I'm sorry, what? What guff is this that you're pulling out of your rear end?
What turgid, trog infested rock did YOU crawl out from under? Kindly get back there and go back to sleep. It's better for everyone that way. |
Wow. Thank you for telling us what we do and don't care about. Please stop now.
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Did you stop taking your meds or are you actually retarded?
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Someone who's familiar with Durakken, please tell me if we're being trolled.
All I remember about him is when he made that City of Heroes Lore wiki (and worked his butt off on it for a couple weeks before forgetting about it and eventually letting the domain lapse). Fortunately, all of that content made it over to the Titan Network's Paragon Wiki, because I loved what Durakken managed to pull together. His master timeline was and is epic. But then I see this and it's like seriously, main screen turn on what is this I don't even know??? |
Point blank, while I do like CoH. CoH is only as great as it is because of great devs working around a system that they need to revamp anyways. And I don't consider myself part of this community for certain reasons that people know about and I have been proven right about. I am more laughing at this than anything because to me it is a matter of reaping what you sow, but that's besides the point. I made peace with the death of CoH about a year ago now. That however doesn't mean that I won't get bored and push you fools into doing something that could be totally awesome... and that is not to save a 8 year old game with a hacked apart engine. And if nothing else at least 1 person saw what the right strategy is to do that which could change so much.
Durakken, obvious trolling aside, it was said at one point (by a redname, IIRC - Zwill?) that a Kickstarter campaign can't be used here, because this is an established, owned property, and Kickstarter doesn't allow that kind of funding.
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A Pay Pal account would be the only feasible way, but I can't imagine a community of private citizens has the kind of liquid capital that would be needed. |
You guys do realize I was being sarcastic there right? Probably not. My point is that you should be loyal to the dev team, not the game. Loyalty to a creative team will always be more rewarding and better in the long run than holding on to whatever it is they last worked on. You say this is a great community and great devs but all I see being focused on really is "how do we save the game" which in my opinion really doesn't matter. |
And no, I'm loyal to my wife and on good days my immediate family. While I think the layoffs sucked a lot and won't ever give another dime to ncsoft because of the way this whole thing was handled, I'm not delusional enough to think that Paragon Studios will suddenly pop back into being. It's dead, Jim.
That leaves saving the game. IF a new studio is created, manages to purchase the IP and it hires 75% or more of the old dev team to come back, Awesome. They can get to work on CoH2 and I'll buy it opening day and play this one until they get it done. But to answer the underlying question, I am far more pissed off about a whole studio's worth of people getting canned than I am about the game being shut down.
Be well, people of CoH.
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So I've been watching this since I heard about it and i don't get why people are bothering with it. No, I don't mean I don't know why you are feeling bad and trying to save this game. I mean why bother trying to get NCsoft to change their position when regardless of why they are doing this the reality of the matter is that this keeps happening over and over again with CoH. Loyal fans and Dedicated (well mostly dedicated) developers are great at what they do be damned.
The idea that CoH had to be cut to make up for lost money elsewhere is ridiculous. MMORPGs pay for themselves after they've got to a certain point in their life cycles and until they fall below a certain point. Are you really believing that one of top most subscribed to games in the world is below the point of self sustainment? That is just foolish. So why would NCsoft do it? I have no idea. Most actions that people take look dumb to me.
The fact is, let's say you all get this saved and celebrate, given the track record, what makes you think that this isn't just going to happen again? What makes you think that CoH as a product in the hands of NCSoft isn't damaged to a large degree already? This matters because if it is, then that will be used for the next argument to shut it down. Your subs are slipping again. So now they have a reason and now it looks like you're just complaining for the sake of complaining and all this outreach will have been wasted.
So I say, why not do something relatively unique. You claim you have a great community here so why not try something more community based. As a community BUY the game. BUY Paragon Studios. Put up the money via kick starter or indiegogo or one of those sites. Show that you mean business with hard cash and grab control of the game that is as much if not more yours as it is theirs. All you are doing currently doing is relying on other people to work out the stuff with their money. You want it. You buy it. That's capitalism and we now have tools to do it so why not?
Obviously there would have to be something worked out for the ownership and control and all like that, but that should be easily handled by anyone with a keen enough business mind. My point is. Put your money on the table and show them you want it. Many of you pay months ahead and that's a big amount of money quarterly. The worst that can happen is it doesn't work out, but if it does. You've then done something amazing and unique that no other community can say they've done and you essentially have control over the game and don't have to worry about these things that keep cropping up every few years.