Dear Devs, can you PLEASE throw us a bone here?

Well, I don't know. Maybe you can make the Titan Network and ML's redname friends stop and listen to reason, if you just keep flinging poo at them. Never give up! Heroes never quit!

That was sarcasm. This isn't: do more and do better to save City of Heroes than the Titan Network has done and is doing, and I'll jump ship in an instant. My respect, loyalty and cooperation will be yours to beckon. Until then, I can't take you seriously.

Fair enough, and as i have stated, I *DO* support the *goal* of Titan Networks. Their methods, not so much.

I have been doing my bit, to spread the word about the game, among my friends and family. Unfortunately, I am not made of money, so being able to buy capes/masks to spend (especially in this tight economy, and after already going to the EU CoX player meet, where stuff was said/discussed already).

*shrugs*

Different strokes for different folks.

((Side note: And to be fair, I would find it hard to match the momentum/background of TonyV and the titan networks... especially in this environment, where he already had the backing of *many* players. One day 1, he already had a practically insurmountable advantage.. which is all his to lose. If he does screw up though, I am sure that will be the time for someone else to pick up the mantle. Starting something similar now? Splitting of effective resources)).

As someone who has a bit of an inside view, that's not true. Everything is taken with a grain of salt, especially when it's claimed to be inside info that isn't supposed to leak out. If I were Brian Clayton, I'd be careful about what I said to someone, even a friend, who I knew was going to turn around and post it publicly.

ML is passionate, driven, and tends to be a little loud about her opinions. She also is quick to leaping without looking as a result of that. She doesn't represent the entire movement by herself -- even though to outsiders it may appear that way because of sheer post volume. What she says isn't taken as gospel beyond question, by any means.

Also, dissenting opinions are welcome so long as they are constructive and don't degenerate into petty bickering. Tony's made that clear a couple times, including asking some of the more rabid supporters to back off.

The Titan forums have always been relatively quiet, so the sudden explosion in traffic is taking some time to get used to. We've never really had to moderate anything other than spammers before -- all I can I ask is for people to be patient while we try to find the right balance.

Now where would they get that idea from? Perhaps from forum accounts created AFTER the shutdown notice that have been used for nothing but pathetic trolling attempts with every single post made since the account was created? (*cough PPCGunner cough*)

Surely such a thing would never occur.

Thanks, I appreciate what you have said here. I really do. I think I am more concerned and worried about *wrong* information from getting out of the Titan Forums than anything else. I know I sound (and sometimes am) really abrasive, and that my posting style could be better, but when someone posts something that I find to be untrue, I will question it in public. If it was posted in public, it is prepared to be discussed in public in my mind. And if something is later found to be untrue, then it can make the whole movement and ML look extremely foolish.

If anything, if ML just took a few seconds to *think* about she is saying (especially in an opening statement, or an introduction of "facts", and had evidence to hand to back up a lot of them), I would be more amenable to her.

Red names follow her for updates on how the negotiations are going? That is great. It is one thing that I *am* willing to believe her on (with an extreme pinch of salt. To be honest, it is hard to pick up evidence either way without having an ear in the room).

The rest though... which i have picked up on, and pointed out in the relevant threads over on the Titan Forums, she seemed to be very defensive about her stance, and not willing to be proven wrong (or that instead a better phrasing would have been better in the initial statement).

Sure, this is her method of saving face, but surely it wouldn't take much for her to admit that she was incorrect, or that something should only be posted as "hearsay", especially if she is unable or unwilling to back it up.

As do I, but posting history doesn't lie.

Very true, and I wasn't talking about your usage of the term. I've just seen it thrown around a lot lately in cases where it sometimes applies, and sometimes doesn't.

Stop and think for a second.

Why would NCSoft pay good money to quash efforts to save CoH? They are presumably not mustache twirling fiends who shut the game down for teh evuls. If the people over at Titan really think that, why are they even trying to deal with them at all?

Do you honestly think ignoring efforts to save CoH is hurting NC in some way that rather than give people what they want and take their money or just ignore them and shut down the game down anyways, they need concoct a scheme that's costs them money to silence them?

"We'll show them what we do to those who try to convince us to continue taking their money! Send in the forum SPIES!"

Or perhaps:

"Ug! We cannot throw the switch to shut down the servers until we break their spirit, otherwise the Power of Love will keep them spinning!"


Now, if you're trying to imply that true, unaffiliated trolls have come out just for the trolling because the misery at the game shutting down is like blood in the water to them, then I'd agree that's probably the case. But to imply they're on somebody's payroll and that it's part of an astroturfing scheme, that's just both paranoid and delusional.

Unless...I'm also an astroturfer!



.

Well, NCSoft's mods are gone, Zwill's rode off into the sunset, and the rest of the rednames are poking in when they can. So its pretty much open season on the forums now.

Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader

Entropy Legion * Hyperion Force * Hero Heights

I don't know about never, but i do know of at least one instance where that notion was erroneous since a few posters just in recent months has accused me of some sort of corporate espionage because most of the topics i chose to participate in involved CoX's number status.

It would've been amusing if it wasn't so outrageous.

Does it ever happen? Maybe.

But it's not like this the first time there was a fanbase campaign to save an mmo...it's not even the first time in NCSoft's history. Auto assault had a save AA campaign also, and as in both cases, they (NCSoft) have the advantage of control.

I don't know if CoX's closure is even news in Korea.

As for ML, displaying passion towards a cause is fine...but if the method used is to reform facts around an obvious bias, that would probably be more harmful than good. It's not just that she has relayed some erroneous information but that she used that to fortify her position.

When she claimed that NCSoft never gave refunds before (which is false) that can be dismissed...no one is expected to know everything. But she used that to solidify the notion that they are having a favorable effect because of it. Just as she is now saying they are still having an effect because NCSoft is supposedly sending troll infiltrators to squash their rebellion.

It sort of reminds me a bit of Fox News personalities to be honest.


Then again, Fox News does have high tv ratings...hmm.

Cuz it costs so much money to create an account for this game and log on to the forums for a few posts a day.

Do I think a grand conspiracy is afoot? Nope. Do I think it highly probable that some individuals would take it upon themselves to troll a dying game's forums for a wide variety of reasons? Yes.

Nah, regardless of how low my opinion of you has always been, I don't think that.

Looks like I did blow his mind, and more than a few of the bits and pieces leaked out.

Einstein, heres a little something for you. They own these boards. They have all the tools to do whatever they want with them and the right to do whatever they want with them. If they wanted to astroturf they could just take inactive accounts and use them or create accounts with whatever post count they want them to have.

If they cared at all what was going on here they could just shut down the forums

On these boards ? That boat sailed long ago.

Nice post history.

Sure is. Can you dispute what I said or is that all you got ?

tl dr version: Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

I'll let you in on a secret. My biggest fear isn't that the save CoH movement fails... it's that the whole thing succeeds for like six months or less... and afterwards we the players find ourselves in the exact same situation we are now. After the self congratulatory hoopla wears off on how "we" pulled off a "miracle", the reality of the situation sets in in terms of what remains of CoH playablity, player population demographics, competition from other, newer games versus what CoH offers and the resources available to apply CoH improvements.

Nobody seems to want to talk about these factors and a "we will jump off that bridge if and when we get to it" attitude prevails. The mere mention that CoH may have already been irreparbly harmed from NCSoft's injustice is met with: "Stop urinating in my cereal" personal attacks and "I'm trying to save the game and you suck". And yet logic would seem to dictate that if things were not so rosy before that fateful Friday, they will most certainly be much worse after November 30th for some time to come.

Staying power survivability is a legit concern. I'll also point out that with the exception of that fateful Friday, I did not see from where I sat that NCSoft was especially dictatoral in their handling of Paragon Studios. And whoever comes next faces far greater challenges to make things work long term. Here's another secret: the "Freem 15" era was not really the "good old days" in terms of game development

Some people will stick with CoH if all it is is a website dedicated to recalling better times for the game. I admire that in a way. But more than anything I dread this type of announcement in our future: "It's been a great nine years. Thank you for all the blood, sweat, tears (and of course money) that went into making City of Heroes what it was. We gave it one heck of ride but it's not working out. Time for us to ride off into the sunset cause you know... in the end we are heroes that's what heroes do." That would hurt a lot of people more than a graceful Nov 30 exit ever will.

Anybody wanna discuss that and allay my fears here? Or is a cheapshot personal slam on how it's really people like me that's destroying CoH (even though I've been with this game through thick and thin for several years) more appropriate?

Indeed.

My list of 'Ideal Outcomes That Will Probably Not Happen' in order of most ideal:


1. NCSoft sells the IP to what remains of 'Paragon Studios'. They reform with as many of the old devs as they can. They work on getting i24 out the door. Then they crunch hard to make i25 the 'sunset' issue; wrap up everything as nicely as they can and then CoH goes into 'maintenance mode' supported by VIPs who continue to pay a monthy fee for..well something. The ability to ride other players and the I Win Button. Whatever.
The servers stay up as long as income covers the cost of keeping the boxes online but no more development is made to the game. Instead, they get their butts in gear on City of Heroes 2.

2. NCSoft will not budge on selling the IP to anyone. What remains of Paragon Studios reforms and ditches CoH and instead develops a new superhero IP and game and never speaks of NCSoft again. CoH becomes a happy memory and hopefully we have a new game to look forward to in the future. Zwill returns with new hats!

3. Someone else entirely develops a new superhero MMO, all the devs find great new jobs, some of them with this studio. Valve swindles NCSoft in a buyout deal and NCSoft finds themselves having paid billions for an actual steam valve. NCSoft upper management take the honorable exit. The end!



.

Kind of sound like what Titan Network is trying to do. Like they are trying to create an image that they are god's given savior to this community and only hope while anyone else that dont agree with their methods, opinions, rumors, theories, and etc. in every detail is against them in every manner and should not be considered a valid part of this community.

To me that is kind of counter productive to the goal. Sure, Im sure TonyV thinks it's nice to be surrounded by people that would agree to everything he says or do and basically wordship him, and yes they might create another game. But how far can a game go on a community only about 10-20% of the size of this community, and in the log run how long will it last if it's a game only made for and by TonyV and his inner circle? People talk about how NCSoft is uncaring to their customers and this community and only care about themselves but TitanNetwork is doing the exact same thing and methods. Only under the thinly guise of "they are here for the effort of everyone." when actually it seems he only doing it for himself and his close friends. Yet I might just be totally off, but that is the way it seems thus far.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Lol. yea Tony made it clear alright. As long as that dissenting opinion isnt opposite of his high hope happy view put your entire life into saving the game view. Mention one time that "Well, I'm not sad but will help save the game." and he'll jump down your throat so fast... in fact he already has a couple of times. Even going as far as calling people trolla or against the COX movement for not having his enthuse and exact goal as his. He says one thing and then do another.react in another way. He says he dont mind opposite opinions but call anyone a troll that does agree with him. LOL. Yea that is VERY accepting of dissenting views.

I remember when back a couple of weeks ago me and a couple others mentioned that it may be slim chance that NCSoft will reverse their decision. Boy did him and his cronies jump on that as being pessimistic, negative, against saving COX and called all type of stuff. Ironic, a few days ago he posted on Titan that it's a slim chance at this point that NCSoft will reverse decision. Well, no one jumped on him and said he was negative. Why? Because he's KIng TonyV that's why and his view is always correct and the only way to go and when he change his mind, then everyone else can change their mind. But better not do it before him or else he'll get you.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Link please.

Figures.

Now I bet if I blow that off like ML did then it would be WW3.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

It's a consequence of limited human intelligence. There is never enough time for a person to process the input they have so people use heuristics (shortcuts) instead of actually rationally examining things. It gets to be a problem when the shortcuts get defended to the point rationality wont penetrate.

Wouldn't take it personally.

As to the agent provocateur stuff going on don't sweat it, maybe it will go away. The worst thing you can do with that is try to fight it.