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There is always a lot of hands in the pot. (e.g. when you throw trash in Wal-Mart's parking lot, you don't hurt Wal-Mart, you hurt the little minimum wage employee who has to clean up the lot.)|
Originally Posted by Rabid_M
I'll admit, they made a little more off of me.
Why? Two words: Arena Net. They're a group of Developers that have poured their heart and soul into making an outstanding game, a game that's quickly showing itself to be something special. The community is small, but it's growing, and there are more than a few people that simply love the game. Their only sin is that they, like the people at Paragon Studios, worked with/for NC Soft. |
NCSoft, the company, may not be moral or caring about their former customers, but boycotting NCSoft not only hurts the company, it hurts all of the people who currently still work for them (e.g. plenty of good people, I'm sure.)
I definetly won't be feeling any trust in NCSoft to protect my interests when emotionally investing in an MMoG franchise of theirs from now on, but I do have a lot of respect for the good people who helped develop Guild Wars 2 and continue to support it, regardless of my feelings towards the parent company.
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Current Team Project: Pending
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I make replies to posts as I read them. The post you are referring to came later and it wasn't to me, whereas the one I quoted and replied to was.|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
So, why did you cherry pick that post in particular out of the thread? Why not one of the more recent posts, maybe my response to Winterminal? Would you rather have seen me stay in the frame of mind that produced this thread? Yeah? Nice try, but you've got to be quick if you want to catch me down on my luck.
Just a bit of advice, dude. Joining the ranks of Lulipop and Kitsune Knight is not exactly what you ought to be striving for right now. The rest of us have our sights set just a bit higher.  |
I don't know who Lulipop is and I haven't been paying attention to what Kitsune has been doing - I can only assume they aren't all rage/screaming/pain/tears/revenge and that makes them evil or something. Clarify what this means if you would be so kind.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
You know what? You're right.
Still hoping the mods will nuke this thread for me--I don't think it's helping, which means I wasn't helping by creating it. But if you see this, Winterminal--thanks. Exactly the swift kick in perspective that I needed. |
Something else to cogitate on.
Internet Attention Span. (Or more correctly Internet Attention Deficit Disorder.)
Due to the more or less instantaneous gratification provided by the Internet for various information and entertainment outlets, there's some expectation of rapid response from corporate entities to various social pushes.
Large, multi-million dollar corporations are amongst the slowest animals on the planet. Due to legal concerns, ongoing business negotiations, and the simple need for standard business continuity (coming in to work and getting all the busy-work done) it can take some companies astoundingly long times to actually respond to things unless they have a lawyer, a process server, or a police officer there.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Same here. I've said it before but it does bear repeating - NCSoft doesn't get my money. I don't care how shiny or beautiful the game - I cannot commit to it because I cannot TRUST them to be good stewards of it.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Me either.
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I'm sorry that you find pointing out efforts that are 100% wasteful is a bad thing. I would much rather the community be focusing on saving the game (and if we're especially lucky, Paragon) rather than temporary feel-goodery that actively hurts many of the efforts to save the game. The "I stopped the first 9/11" guy and the boycott!!! crowd being prime examples.|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Just a bit of advice, dude. Joining the ranks of Lulipop and Kitsune Knight is not exactly what you ought to be striving for right now.
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If a group is trying to use some story of stopping a terrorist plot as an example of whatever-the-hell, and then it's provided obviously false (or even just completely incapable of providing any proof), it'll be an absurdly large PR blow to something that's 100% PR. But people didn't want to ask the important questions, they wanted to just belieeeeeeve so much so they attacked someone trying to ask.
Likewise, the boycott crowd (the ones screaming it, specifically) is toxic to any player-lead efforts to talk to NCSoft, because they risk coloring the entire group. Fortunately, people seem to have backed off screaming for blood while ignoring the efforts to save CoH.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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I get where you are coming from, however as consumers we should voice out displeasure. I attempt to do so in a mature manner in most cases. With my friends in person I am not so... diplomatic.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
I'm sorry that you find pointing out efforts that are 100% wasteful is a bad thing. I would much rather the community be focusing on saving the game (and if we're especially lucky, Paragon) rather than temporary feel-goodery that actively hurts many of the efforts to save the game. The "I stopped the first 9/11" guy and the boycott!!! crowd being prime examples.
If a group is trying to use some story of stopping a terrorist plot as an example of whatever-the-hell, and then it's provided obviously false (or even just completely incapable of providing any proof), it'll be an absurdly large PR blow to something that's 100% PR. But people didn't want to ask the important questions, they wanted to just belieeeeeeve so much so they attacked someone trying to ask. Likewise, the boycott crowd (the ones screaming it, specifically) is toxic to any player-lead efforts to talk to NCSoft, because they risk coloring the entire group. Fortunately, people seem to have backed off screaming for blood while ignoring the efforts to save CoH. |
Regardless of the closing, ALL of this has been handled poorly on their part. The message, the lack of communication over remaining paints and time. It is just all so unprofessional.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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Aye, captain.|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
I now believe my earlier statements to be incorrect. I do not believe NCSoft deserves my patience or respect, or the patience or respect of investors. I do not believe NCSoft's "internal discussions" are anything but a ploy to exploit our patience and lay our community efforts to waste, while the former members of Paragon Studios disperse and scatter into the workforce. After all, these are the same criminals who forged Richard Garriott's 24 million-dollar letter of resignation.
NCSoft's management has lost face. And they did it to themselves. They are a disgrace to the entire industry. Their silence shows that they are incompetent, lacking in both strategic finesse and business skills. But most importantly, their disrespectful treatment of their honorable, loyal customers shows how diseased and rotten their hearts are. November 30th will not be our loss, NCSoft. There are ways for us to continue playing City of Heroes without your permission. Instead, November 30th will be NCSoft's loss, because Paragon Studios fans and MMORPG players across the world will not soon forget what NCSoft stole from us. NCSoft KNEW they would shut the game down and yet CONTINUED to encourage subscriptions and in-game market investments by pushing the creation of new content and new issues, and then cut Paragon's employees loose while Issue 24 was almost out of the oven. NCSoft's management is criminally ruthless and I will never trust them again. |
However badly we view NCSoft, though, it was not they who implied there were talks going on. It was Paragon Studios, first announced in-game by a red name and quoted on these forums by Golden Girl.
And I KNOW in my heart Paragon would never lie to us like that, especially as they were even more vested in the game than any of us, and more lifted by the outpouring of community spirit that has ensued. And Golden Girl I have found to be quite positive, honest and a voice of reason here throughout this whole mess: She wouldn't make it up. Nor has Zwill, whom I've seen logged on almost constantly, said one thing to deny or debunk it.So fear not. Whether or not anything comes of it (and I can't help but think that if MORE players wrote emails to those Korean head honchos, they would take us MORE seriously in light of the natural protesting that routinely goes on in Korea, instead of it appearing to their normally-vocal minds that we just don't care because we are holding back)...well, if nothing comes of it, at least we know that we, and Paragon Studios, really tried to get CoH sold.
Maybe we should be putting our frustrated energy into finding investors to take CoH and Paragon Studios to the next step in CoH's evolution, when we're not too busy still keeping the noise going and raising awareness of the situation in the mainstream media.
fwiw, take a look at JayboH's posting history for the past few days before replying to him.
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Yup.|
Originally Posted by Atlantea
Same here.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Fortunately, people seem to have backed off screaming for blood while ignoring the efforts to save CoH.
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It's pretty apparent you're just as frustrated as Captain-Electric. Either of you arguing on the forums is way less useful than running a task force or hero tips team on your server. People are dropping like *flies.*
Btw, if either of you have artistic or social media skills, we could use your help in the project coordinators. Drop TonyV a line. And one of the things I'm going to be starting up uh... tomorrow? is either a separate pic thread or an in-thread picture drive for the Masks and Capes campaign. So photo your paper, plastic, or (in one of my friends' cases) crocheted superhero masks now!
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Originally Posted by Rabid_M
I'll admit, they made a little more off of me.
Why? Two words: Arena Net. They're a group of Developers that have poured their heart and soul into making an outstanding game, a game that's quickly showing itself to be something special. The community is small, but it's growing, and there are more than a few people that simply love the game. Their only sin is that they, like the people at Paragon Studios, worked with/for NC Soft. |
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Yep. We may not find anything out for another two weeks. Or another two months. Or, brace yourselves, past November 30th. That's just how it is. They're not working on our time, and they have no need to work on our time.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Something else to cogitate on.
Internet Attention Span. (Or more correctly Internet Attention Deficit Disorder.) Due to the more or less instantaneous gratification provided by the Internet for various information and entertainment outlets, there's some expectation of rapid response from corporate entities to various social pushes. Large, multi-million dollar corporations are amongst the slowest animals on the planet. Due to legal concerns, ongoing business negotiations, and the simple need for standard business continuity (coming in to work and getting all the busy-work done) it can take some companies astoundingly long times to actually respond to things unless they have a lawyer, a process server, or a police officer there. |
So you can either rant at the winds, or you can continue to work positively in letting the MMO industry know that we have money and we're willing to spend it on a quality superhero MMO like City of Heroes. Even if NCSoft doesn't hear us, that doesn't mean someone else isn't listening. Don't give up.
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
"I am angry"
You and another few hundreds of precious little snowflakes who feel they are so important they each have to create a new thread instead of joining one of the many, many existing topics about NCSoft "appreciation".
Spam is spam. I'd wager people who react negatively are mildly annoyed rather than amused.
Hey Captain.
I was lucky enough to bump into you last week when you and I were both in Ouroboros, having a bit of fun and we got into a nice extended conversation about the state of play here with this game. For your reference, I'm with the Gods of the Golden Age and was wearing the green/yellow outfit.
Your positivity that night buoyed me no end, I have to say. I'm not as upset as yourself or as others may be simply because...well...in my real life I've had the loss of family members, and in the grander scheme of thing, this doesn't stack up quite as much, at least to me personally.
But it's good to vent and it's good to express your anger at the situation, trust me on this. I am however quietly confident that something will occur, as these things often do. Social media is a powerful tool, and even NCSoft can't help but notice that their public image is just a wee touch tarnished.
My first hero in this game was a tank, and the motto often is first one into the fight, last one standing. I intend to take that attitude here. If you need a sounding board, hit me up.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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Didn't EA and BioWare respond to the "Mass Effect 3 ending" debacle pretty quickly, though?
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Large, multi-million dollar corporations are amongst the slowest animals on the planet. Due to legal concerns, ongoing business negotiations, and the simple need for standard business continuity (coming in to work and getting all the busy-work done) it can take some companies astoundingly long times to actually respond to things unless they have a lawyer, a process server, or a police officer there.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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still took roughly 2 weeks from the launch of the game to announcement from Dr. Ray Muzyka (21st March).|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Didn't EA and BioWare respond to the "Mass Effect 3 ending" debacle pretty quickly, though?
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The announcement of the Extended cut was June 22nd.
QR
Anger, hurt and pain are all understandable and justifiable reactions to the way NCSoft has gone about "refocusing" it's business objectives at our expense.
If we cannot express those emotions here, on the official boards of the game we love so much, what does it really say about our community?
Just asking.
Thelonious Monk
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The bloodshed will only start if NCSoft refuses to be reasonable.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Fortunately, people seem to have backed off screaming for blood while ignoring the efforts to save CoH.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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It's not about the devs badmouthing NCSoft. They weren't doing that at all yet they about quadrupled their number of posts in that first week. Yet this last week there's been almost total silence. Posi was going to try to have a "reveal all" thread last week and it didn't happen, and (to my knowledge, although I could easily have missed such a post) not even a "sorry, maybe next week" post. Granted it is entirely possible, and the most likely explanation, that they are too busy job hunting, or even have found new jobs, to post, but it is kind of odd and gives us some small bit of hope that things are going on they can't talk about.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
True but that's not to say that they would talk about it anyway. In general it's good policy not to talk smack about a former employer in public even if there's no legal restriction on doing so. It's the sort of thing that can make other employers decide not to hire you since they know that you may well decide to talk smack about them in the future.
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@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
There is one thing people who want boycott and death to NCSOFT need to start thinking about. If they go out and do what they feel in their heart and rebell...all the "level heads will prevail" people will blame them for anything bad that happens. So really its a lose lose.
I don't think anyone that is talking on these forums know what is going on with NCSOFT and City of Heroes (red names dont seem to be saying much). So thinking of a plan of attack and saying someone else has bad ideas is crazy and just puts us against each other.
Playing on Freedom
Do you think they may have suspended red name forum posting privileges?
Frankie says it best.
Na. Dr Aeon posted today.
Playing on Freedom
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Not saying you can't.|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
QR
Anger, hurt and pain are all understandable and justifiable reactions to the way NCSoft has gone about "refocusing" it's business objectives at our expense. If we cannot express those emotions here, on the official boards of the game we love so much, what does it really say about our community? Just asking. |
Honestly, I have exactly zero power to make people STFU, short of finding out where you live and focusing the killsat.
I'm just asking, as civilly as possible, to try and stay positive about our situation.
However, if you quite simply can't stand to not go up in a ball of nuclear fire, again, I can't stop you. I'm simply saying that it's not productive at this time.
Understandable? Sure! The abrupt nature of this is aggravating as hell. Especially when we've had so much open communication from Paragon in the past.
But hulking out (verbally or physically) and finding the nearest NCSoft exec to play "Puny God" with, while emotionally gratifying, isn't productive or helpful.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I for one am hoping that he's not doing the "reveal-all" thread because he's going to need those secrets in the near future and doesn't want to spoil it all. When he offered to do that thread/AMA, there was no hope. Now, there may be enough that he doesn't want to spill all the beans anymore.|
Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
Posi was going to try to have a "reveal all" thread last week and it didn't happen, and (to my knowledge, although I could easily have missed such a post) not even a "sorry, maybe next week" post. Granted it is entirely possible, and the most likely explanation, that they are too busy job hunting, or even have found new jobs, to post, but it is kind of odd and gives us some small bit of hope that things are going on they can't talk about.
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To me, when he does that thread, that's when I know that our devs at least will not be coming back.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Not saying you can't.
Honestly, I have exactly zero power to make people STFU, short of finding out where you live and focusing the killsat. I'm just asking, as civilly as possible, to try and stay positive about our situation. However, if you quite simply can't stand to not go up in a ball of nuclear fire, again, I can't stop you. I'm simply saying that it's not productive at this time. Understandable? Sure! The abrupt nature of this is aggravating as hell. Especially when we've had so much open communication from Paragon in the past. But hulking out (verbally or physically) and finding the nearest NCSoft exec to play "Puny God" with, while emotionally gratifying, isn't productive or helpful. |
I wouldn't agree with much of what you've said here bud.
I know you're trying to lighten the mood, a bit of brevity goes a long way and I get where you're coming from but if you really are angry/upset/annoyed and feel the need to vent, then here is probably the best place on the planet to do exactly that.
Get it out of your system amongst people who understand you, who get it, who sympathize (sometimes) and who share that pain. That's part of the grieving process, and you know, it's perfectly ok for people to do that if it works for them.
I'd argue it's FAR BETTER doing it here, in a relatively safe environment amongst your peers and colleagues than to rant elsewhere where one might be in danger of sounding a tad strange.
How unhelpful is it really gonna be? If NCSoft are monitoring these boards, then that's great - and they will see the strength of the ire against them. But I'd frankly be amazed if they are so it's behind closed doors.
Let the anger out and then get on with being productive. Hindering that process is only going to make things worse
Thelonious Monk
If you had a large negative press campaign hurled against your office door, wouldn't you want to do something about it? Because NCSoft haven't which means one of two things; they either don't give a toss about us (or the Western market overall if reports are to be believed) or they have their fingers in their ears singing La-la-la-****-you.
Waiting two weeks deliberately would be a fools errand.
Frankie says it best.
We know that the Devs have heard us. They have yet to disappear off of the map, which means they have most likely seen our frustration as well. But they have given us no information other than to notify us that Paragon management was in discussions (and only discussions) with NCSoft and investors. [source]
Given the relationship between us (the community) and the Devs/Community team, I firmly believe they would have told us by now if they, too, had received nothing but silence from NCSoft. Because they would be able to; no response means no NDA about discussions. While they would not badmouth NCSoft, they would have the decency to tell us that a wall had been hit, and give us the opportunity to focus our energies towards solutions that did not involve NCSoft (few as they may be).
So let's give our Dev team a little credit: As many of us forum-frequenters know, the quieter the Devs and Community team are, the harder they tend to be working.
I think we just need to keep positive, keep doing things like the rallies, playing the game, buying the devs dinner and getting the word out. There's still a long way to go, no need to get discouraged yet.