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I won't be putting any cash to NCsoft ever again - if they choose to hang on to the game IP.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Me either.
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I'm open to reconsidering that position should NCsoft do the right thing.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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I am a loyal COH player AND I will give them my money on future games if I like them - like GW 2
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Originally Posted by Matthew_Orlock
Just not anywhere that City of Heroes had a loyal playerbase.
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Each to their own.|
Originally Posted by American_Knight
I am a loyal COH player AND I will give them my money on future games if I like them - like GW 2
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I assume then that you agree with the course of action that NCsoft has taken with CoH and Paragon Studios?
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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Well, i can't speak for him, but no, i do not agree outright with the actions of Ncsoft concerning Paragon Studios.|
Originally Posted by Cobra_Man
Each to their own.
I assume then that you agree with the course of action that NCsoft has taken with CoH and Paragon Studios? |
But if i had done what other players *have* suggested, I would have never returned back to City of Heroes after they closed down Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa.
I would have never gotten involved with the EU CoX player meets. Christ, Kallandra and I would have never met in the 1st place.
*shrugs* As you said, each to their own.
But it is amazing what happens though if you don't cut yourself off.
side note: I have to admit that also being friends with several (now) ex-NCsoft staff did help me stay with the game.
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I appreciate what you're saying but I need to point out that Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa are not this game, and I had no dealing with either game.
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Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Well, i can't speak for him, but no, i do not agree outright with the actions of Ncsoft concerning Paragon Studios.
But if i had done what other players *have* suggested, I would have never returned back to City of Heroes after they closed down Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa. I would have never gotten involved with the EU CoX player meets. Christ, Kallandra and I would have never met in the 1st place. *shrugs* As you said, each to their own. But it is amazing what happens though if you don't cut yourself off. side note: I have to admit that also being friends with several (now) ex-NCsoft staff did help me stay with the game. |
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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Edit: To continue, would i support NCsoft if i liked Guild Wars 2? Yes, I would, and infact have done (2 copies in the house, possibly a 3rd for the family, depends on interest from the little sister...)
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Originally Posted by Cobra_Man
I appreciate what you're saying but I need to point out that Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa are not this game, and I had no dealing with either game.
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As I said earlier.|
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Edit: To continue, would i support NCsoft if i liked Guild Wars 2? Yes, I would, and infact have done (2 copies in the house, possibly a 3rd for the family, depends on interest from the little sister...)
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Each to their own.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind
fwiw, take a look at JayboH's posting history for the past few days before replying to him.
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Not sure what to make of this statement - all I know is that I am losing tolerance for those who disown others for not being as angry as they are over what is happening to the greatest MMO I've ever played. 
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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+1000|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Look, I'm angry, people.
I know NCSoft will succeed, I know they'll never read my post. City of Heroes may have helped them get to where they are today, but now we're collectively an ant beneath their big steel boot. So thanks for your precious little nuggets of reality, folks. Really, thanks. I'm sure you're really helping the world to be a better place, sprinkling these little glittering turds of wisdom everywhere, reminding us what a success story NCSoft will continue to be despite sacrificing our entire community and history on its quarterly altar. But you know what? Bite my shiny spandex. |
But, I'm reserving just a tiny silver of hope that somehow, lightning will strike three times on top of the same standing head of a pin, and NC will follow up with SOME kind of reasonable response for what they did, with some honesty, and heavy compensation in the form of free copies/credit of their products for COH's paying customers.
It sounds crazy and impossible, but I think it's more likely than COH reviving in any form - and it's also the only way I'll spend money with them in good conscience again.
..and I think something like that would take time, so I ask for that patience to be extended for another week or three.
@Kyuu
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I am sure they dont, but I feel the same. Much as I am angry with NCsoft, I am not silly enough to think that not giving them my money, will have any impact on them whatsoever. However, I am not going to cut off my nose to spite my face, and not play a really good MMO (GW2), just to prove a point.|
Originally Posted by Cobra_Man
Each to their own.
I assume then that you agree with the course of action that NCsoft has taken with CoH and Paragon Studios? |
Lets be honest, we all hope COH is gonna be saved, but if not, I want to have a game to play, and to my mind if I avoided the only other decent MMO, it would be me that is losing out, not NCsoft. I also happen to think that as an adult, that would also be a little childish in the real world. Sure we are all angry, but stamping our feet and throwing a paddy will solve nothing.
P.s Another point is that mosy publishers behave this way anyway, Sony have a bad rep from most players, as do EA etc... I we only bought games from companies with a conscience, then we would not have much choice.... Also if we all behaved that way, then we should have all quit COH when the closed down Tabula Rasa.... but we didnt, because we liked playing COH, so in all fairness our boycotting is a little selective...
I guess I'm not surprised to see that this thread is still chugging along, after two requests to have it nuked. (Hint: not surprising because our red-named allies in Paragon are just a little bit busy these days. 
)
At this point, they might as well leave it up. But for the record, those requests weren't owing to me wanting to take back what I wrote in the OP. I wrote what I felt; and what I still suspect: that these "talks" are merely related to the services cessation process; and that our kindness and patience has been exploited by NCSoft's NDA gagging of the Paragon team, while the Paragon team bleeds out into the workforce at large--and that we should have been more ruthlessly aggressive in our media-grabbing antics these past two weeks, not kinder and gentler.
But the problem with creating a thread like this is that it doesn't help cause ACTION. It becomes a meeting place to vent (and waste) steam. Like protesting in a park right outside NCSoft's iron fortress, when the park is completely concealed by trees.
Shining a spotlight on my anger is not wrong, per say, and several of you have written in support of my expression. And I'm not refusing you, but I want to acknowledge those who have taken me to task for this. Yes, even those who came bearing insults. I wouldn't have regretted posting the OP if we truly knew, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that our strongest displays of unity had been in vain and that we truly had nothing left to lose. But what we need right now is not a spotlight on our grief, which we'll have all the time in the world for if we fail as a community. What we need is a laser-like focus on our purpose: Saving City of Heroes.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, this really started to dawn on me the moment I pressed 'Submit New Thread'. 99 percent of what I type around here is straight-up encouragement for calls to action. Now? Straight-up rabblerouser. People have short memories, which is the other problem with creating a thread like this: words immortalize you at the specific point in time in which they're typed. Always a good idea to keep in mind when you're in the heat of a moment.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
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It didn't affect me directly then, and Tabula Rasa was still a bit young. |
Originally Posted by saviour123
Also if we all behaved that way, then we should have all quit COH when the closed down Tabula Rasa.... but we didnt, because we liked playing COH, so in all fairness our boycotting is a little selective...
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Though, I should have learned something then. I also do not rule out the forgery accusations.
@Kyuu
I figured it was just another 'misery loves company' display.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
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A lot of those sales came before this debacle.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Guild Wars 2 sales refutes that statement since it's sold in the same countries as CoH.
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CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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Originally Posted by saviour123
I am sure they dont, but I feel the same. Much as I am angry with NCsoft, I am not silly enough to think that not giving them my money, will have any impact on them whatsoever. However, I am not going to cut off my nose to spite my face, and not play a really good MMO (GW2), just to prove a point.
Lets be honest, we all hope COH is gonna be saved, but if not, I want to have a game to play, and to my mind if I avoided the only other decent MMO, it would be me that is losing out, not NCsoft. I also happen to think that as an adult, that would also be a little childish in the real world. Sure we are all angry, but stamping our feet and throwing a paddy will solve nothing. P.s Another point is that mosy publishers behave this way anyway, Sony have a bad rep from most players, as do EA etc... I we only bought games from companies with a conscience, then we would not have much choice.... Also if we all behaved that way, then we should have all quit COH when the closed down Tabula Rasa.... but we didnt, because we liked playing COH, so in all fairness our boycotting is a little selective... |
I'm not being funny, but boycotting is always selective.
AA and TR had nothing to do with me. I don't play EA or Sony games.
I play CoH, and that's a different ball game, now that I feel we as a playerbase are getting a raw deal.
But ... as I've said, if NCsoft allow the game IP to move on I will happily buy their games on merit.
I think that's fair.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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Sounds a bit familiar. |
Originally Posted by Cobra_Man
I appreciate what you're saying but I need to point out that Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa are not this game, and I had no dealing with either game.
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Here is Pastor Martin Niemöller's poem as it was originally written in German, then as it was translated into English.
Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.
Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.
Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.
-----------------------------------------------------
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
after all I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
after all I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
after all I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
---------------------
There have been several variants of this over the years, but the core idea is the same.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Which is also why the Blade and Soul and Guild Wars 2 fans should be ranting and raving in our corner right now, picking up banners alongside us, impassioned alongside us, called to action alongside us. For those who are--I salute you.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Sounds a bit familiar.
Here is Pastor Martin Niemöller's poem as it was originally written in German, then as it was translated into English. [...] |
For those who are telling the rest of us to just get over it? I'll only join your future self, when we're both smacking you upside the head.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Quote:
Lots of GW2 people are on our side. I see stuff in map chat about it every SINGLE day. Heck, I found out about the closure in GW2 map chat. People are not blind as to what this means for the entire stable of NCsoft's western games.
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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Which is also why the Blade and Soul and Guild Wars 2 fans should be ranting and raving in our corner right now, picking up banners alongside us, impassioned alongside us, called to action alongside us. For those who are--I salute you.
For those who are telling the rest of us to just get over it? I'll only join your future self, when we're both smacking you upside the head. |
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Indeed. I am less inclined to play GW2 and develop an attachment to the game and my characters after all this. I've now been playing a lot more EVE Online as a consequence - a game that has been around longer than CoH and is still going.
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Originally Posted by Feycat
Lots of GW2 people are on our side. I see stuff in map chat about it every SINGLE day. Heck, I found out about the closure in GW2 map chat. People are not blind as to what this means for the entire stable of NCsoft's western games.
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CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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That's because CCP (EVE's studio) did something unique (and smart) several years ago: they bought Eve Online from their publisher Simon & Schuster, and never had to ask for permission for anything again, or beg S&S and compete with rival studios for funding. I wish more studios would have been taking that risk in the previous years--the landscape might look different today. Imagine a world where friggin' Origin was still around! |
Originally Posted by CatMan
I've now been playing a lot more EVE Online as a consequence - a game that has been around longer than CoH and is still going.
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CCP has made its share of dumb mistakes, but they were able to bounce back. I played EVE a lot before City of Heroes and I applaud the risks those guys took. They've been well-rewarded and are well-loved for it. Publishers ought to have been made into dinosaurs by now. One of their biggest promises is always funding for advertising (ADVERTISINGLOLOLOLOL). Yeah, right. We know better. Why don't more studios go their own way? I wish Paragon Studios would just stick together, even if it meant making a new game. Maybe there's some angel investors out there. Well, a guy can wish.Quote:
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Originally Posted by Feycat
Lots of GW2 people are on our side. I see stuff in map chat about it every SINGLE day. Heck, I found out about the closure in GW2 map chat. People are not blind as to what this means for the entire stable of NCsoft's western games.
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Maybe GW2 is good for something after all.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Quote:
Yeah, Origin was great in the day. |
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
That's because CCP (EVE's studio) did something unique (and smart) several years ago: they bought Eve Online from their publisher Simon & Schuster, and never had to ask for permission for anything again, or beg S&S and compete with rival studios for funding. I wish more studios would have been taking that risk in the previous years--the landscape might look different today. Imagine a world where friggin' Origin was still around!
CCP has made its share of dumb mistakes, but they were able to bounce back. I played EVE a lot before City of Heroes and I applaud the risks those guys took. They've been well-rewarded and are well-loved for it. Publishers ought to have been made into dinosaurs by now. One of their biggest promises is always funding for advertising (ADVERTISINGLOLOLOLOL). Yeah, right. We know better. Why don't more studios go their own way? I wish Paragon Studios would just stick together, even if it meant making a new game. Maybe there's some angel investors out there. Well, a guy can wish. |
More to the point: If anybody has shown that you don't need a publisher at any stage of the game it is Minecraft.
Excellent point about CCP buying itself out - I had forgotten that.
edit to add link to Origin information - not to be confused with EA's Origin.
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
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Helpful link
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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Maybe GW2 is good for something after all.
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My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom
Quote:
Now that is just wrong... simply wrong. Like hitting a man below the belt.
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Originally Posted by JayboH
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CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
Quote:
Godwinned! Thread is over.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Sounds a bit familiar.
Here is Pastor Martin Niemöller's poem as it was originally written in German, then as it was translated into English. Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten, habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Kommunist. Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten, habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat. Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten, habe ich nicht protestiert; ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter. Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte. ----------------------------------------------------- When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; after all I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; after all I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; after all I was not a trade unionist. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out. --------------------- There have been several variants of this over the years, but the core idea is the same. |
Also, that poem could be argued the other way around too.
I know you're trying to lighten the mood, a bit of brevity goes a long way and I get where you're coming from but if you really are angry/upset/annoyed and feel the need to vent, then here is probably the best place on the planet to do exactly that.
Get it out of your system amongst people who understand you, who get it, who sympathize (sometimes) and who share that pain. That's part of the grieving process, and you know, it's perfectly ok for people to do that if it works for them.
I'd argue it's FAR BETTER doing it here, in a relatively safe environment amongst your peers and colleagues than to rant elsewhere where one might be in danger of sounding a tad strange.
How unhelpful is it really gonna be? If NCSoft are monitoring these boards, then that's great - and they will see the strength of the ire against them. But I'd frankly be amazed if they are so it's behind closed doors.
Let the anger out and then get on with being productive. Hindering that process is only going to make things worse
Again. I'm not saying you're not allowed to vent.
If you absolutely GOTTA, go ahead.
If you get some sort of catharsis out of it, fine. More power to you.
I'm simply saying that, if saving the game (in some form) is your ultimate goal, then it's not helping anything.
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