Quote:
Other publishers have cancelled many titles before, but probably not ones you would care about. Sony i think cancelled 5 that i know of, but only 1 (SWG) was something i would prefer to have kept going.
|
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
BTW, not only is NCSoft the only one to cancel that many MMOs, it's also the only one that comes to mind that kills a profitable MMO that is in the middle of heavy development.
|
Quote:
MMOs? Only MMOs they have canceled that I am aware off have been:|
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
Other publishers have cancelled many titles before, but probably not ones you would care about. Sony i think cancelled 5 that i know of, but only 1 (SWG) was something I would prefer to have kept going.
|
EverQuest Online adventure (A PS2 game they had no way to keep supporting.)
Star Wars Galaxies (shut down was decided by Lucas Arts in hopes that those players would move to TOR)
And Matrix Online.
Matrix Online is the only one they canceled due to low subscription numbers, and thats an excuse they had from the day they acquired the IP 5 years earlier when the original owner studio was closed.
They have other games they canceled, but these are not MMOs (Tanarus, Cosmic Rift and Star Chamber.) These other 3 were only "freebies" they tossed as bonuses for subscribers of their All Access plan. Despite their nature they lived enjoyed between 9 and 13 years lifespans.
Quote:
basically and it's really showing now.
|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
What NCSoft did was give CoH 5 more years of life.
What NCSoft did was give an extended sunsetting time frame compared to most MMOs that are closed down. Pretty convenient that people forget those two things. NCSoft did not screw over the CoH players...but you go right ahead and keep thinking that. I choose to look at it from a realistic stand point instead of an overly emotional stand point. CoH was not some thriving community contrary to what others want people to think. It was a small..declining group of players who couldn't be bothered with saving the game until it was too late. Things that led to this point: Inhospitable forums...way too many servers spreading the population thin...lack of advertisement...and a piss poor Hybrid model that encouraged people not to sub... Frankly I was always surprised CoH lasted as long as it did. Don't get me wrong.. I loved CoH the game, but the "community" I could have done without. Even now the supposed community has become nothing but spoiled brats whining about how NCSoft is evil and took their toys...all while forgetting that NCSoft saved this game when no one else wanted it. |
-Female Player-
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
Quote:
True. but I'm sure there was players that cared just as there are players here that may care. That probably go for any game that is getting canceled. This shutdown seems like a "big deal" to some because we are here. To most on the outside, it's just another game shutting down.
|
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
Other publishers have cancelled many titles before, but probably not ones you would care about. Sony i think cancelled 5 that i know of, but only 1 (SWG) was something i would prefer to have kept going.
|
-Female Player-
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Starsman
MMOs? Only MMOs they have canceled that I am aware off have been:
EverQuest Online adventure (A PS2 game they had no way to keep supporting.) Star Wars Galaxies (shut down was decided by Lucas Arts in hopes that those players would move to TOR) And Matrix Online. Matrix Online is the only one they canceled due to low subscription numbers, and that’s an excuse they had from the day they acquired the IP 5 years earlier when the original owner studio was closed. They have other games they canceled, but these are not MMOs (Tanarus, Cosmic Rift and Star Chamber.) These other 3 were only "freebies" they tossed as bonuses for subscribers of their All Access plan. Despite their nature they lived enjoyed between 9 and 13 years lifespans. |
Actually Cosmic Rift is defined as an MMO, but if you want to limit the other titles, then you also have to discount from NCSoft's list Exteel since that's a shooter...also leave out point blank and dragonica since those are still running, just not in all the regions it used to run.
That leaves 4 for NCSoft and 3 for Sony.
And SWG was not shut down "by" Lucas Arts. It was shut down by John Smedley (Sony) because he thought it would have difficulties once SWTOR is released.
Yes, their license agreements were expiring but because of various factors among which was the SWTOR launch and other things, Smedley decided to let the license contract lapse.
And much like CoX, SWG still had a small loyal fanbase that were outraged by the closure and held a campaign to save it.
Quote:
| "It was time to turn it off. We have a contractual relationship that's ending in 2012, The Old Republic launching, a bunch of other business things with LucasArts," Smedley said. "And then you look at the odds of a pretty large portion of the audience moving to TOR, which looks like a terrific game. I think that's going to be really well-received by the population." You can't deny Smedley's business sense there. |
Quit using logic they don't like that here
This is their home and their are unique butterflies and no one has ever had to experience this before.
For people that are so anti-NCSoft it makes you wonder why they bothered playing CoH in the first place.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
Actually Cosmic Rift is defined as an MMO, but if you want to limit it, then you also have to discount from NCSoft's list Exteel since that's a shooter...also leave out point blank and dragonica since those are still running, just not in all the regions it used to run.
That leaves 4 for NCSoft and 3 for Sony. And SWG was not shut down "by" Lucas Arts. It was shut down by John Smedley (Sony) because he thought it would have difficulties once SWTOR is released. Yes, their license agreements were expiring but because of various factors among which was the SWTOR launch and other things, Smedley decided to let the license contract lapse. And much like CoX, SWG still had a loyal fanbase that were outraged by the closure. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Where am I going? Gone. I just can't find the motivation.
I'm playing GW2, Skyrim (again), SWtOR, Path of Exile, DA1, and both X-Com and BioShock Infinity are on my wishlist.
I'm actually thinking of finding a new group to play those MMOs with since my current group simply don't. That's the saddest part of it all for me. Gotta move on and try to keep in touch.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
I dont play any other MMORPG games. Non of them really add up to coh.... i tryed to play other MMORPG game but there boring and nowhere near the fun i have on coh. So i guess im back to only playing online FPS games. If i was to ever play a MMORPG game again it will NOT be published by NCsoft. There dead in my gaming book.
LONG LIVE CITY OF HEROES!!!
Quote:
Gah. If you haven't already, don't. Go with Torchlight 2.
|
Originally Posted by Steelclaw
CoH is the only game I've played for the past five or so years. Once the numbness wears off I'll probably go try DCU simply to see if it satisfies my super hero fix.
Guess I'll finally get around to buying/trying Diablo 3. |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
Quote:
People keep stating profits but it was revenues that were up slightly for one quarter due to Freedom, we have NO idea about the games profits. We can make guesses based on the reported size of Paragon Studio's staff but there is no published information dealing with a breakdown of profits by any of NCSoft's games or regions. Just revenue.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
I think you are making up facts. CoH profits went slighlty down after going F2P but it was in a slight increase compared to the previous year quarter. There was potential for at worst a couple more years of steady profits or even an increase in profits.
|
I'm going to compare NCSoft's 2009 yearly numbers to 2011's, in KrW.
By Region
NA - 69403 - 27383 - down 60.5%
EU - 47997 - 17928 - down 62.6%
Taiwan - 23287 - 17856 - down 23.3%
Japan - 88095 - 85020 - down 3.5%
Korea - 356773 - 404144 - up 13.3%
so meta region
Not Asia - 117400 - 45311 - down 61.4%
Asia - 468155 - 507020 - up 8.3%
It's safe to say that CoH falls into the Not Asia region for revenues. In 2009 that was 22909 and in 2011 it was 12086 or down 47.2%. Hey we beat the trend for the region at least. Which means the rest of their products including their bread and butter MMOs are down even more that that in NA and EU.
The first half a 2012 is even worse for the "Not Asia" regions, down 32% from the first half of 2011 (Asia is down only 10.6%). Now during all this NC Interactive, which Paragon Studios is listed under in NCSoft's worldwide org chart, went from a 3600 KrW loss in 2009 to a 24744 loss in 2011 and a 14207 loss for the first half of 2012. Of all of NCSoft's subsidiaries, NC Interactive represented 73.6% of the losses from losing subsidiaries in 2011 and 65.2% in the first half of 2012. I should also point out that NC Europe is the 2nd largest loser. I'll note here that Arenanet is it's own subsidiary and is not part of NC Interactive and Carbine Studios is listed under the parent company NCSoft Corporation.
So where would you cut to move your company back into profitability? Gee how about the subsidiaries in the regions where you had the largest declines in revenues which, surprise, have also shot up their losses in the past 2 1/2 years. And here's the problem. They want/need NC Interactive to translate and market their big 3, well now 2 but soon 3 MMOs in NA, so that group is pretty much off the table when it comes to cuts which sadly left Paragon Studio and CoH.
Sorry Charlie. The axe fell on Paragon and us.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
Oh, not shutting down a successful MMO was "giving it 5 more years of life" and an "extended sunsetting time frame". Gotcha. What color is the sky in your fantasy world?|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
What NCSoft did was give CoH 5 more years of life.
What NCSoft did was give an extended sunsetting time frame compared to most MMOs that are closed down. |
Quote:
| CoH was not some thriving community contrary to what others want people to think. It was a small..declining group of players who couldn't be bothered with saving the game until it was too late. |
Quote:
| Things that led to this point: Inhospitable forums... |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
You may want to look at how long most MMOs get for a sunset...On average 30 days and what did we get??? 90 days. (Please note I said average and not all before saying X MMO got 60 days or Y MMO got 90 days)
If it weren't for NCSoft CoH would have died in 2007.
Your subscriber numbers are a little off. The BEST guess off revenue is that CoH had... 50-60k subs since Freedom. Who cares what it had PRE Freedom because that was a year ago and not NOW. 50-60k subs is not a thriving game no matter how you look at it; especially with most of the Dev team working on Project X. Working on a new project when you have the smallest number of subs since launch; probably not the best use of funds.
I really don't care if people never purchase an NCSoft title again - it doesn't affect me LOL. I just get tired of all the "NCSOFT is evil" BS when if it weren't for them this game wouldn't have been here. MMOs die - get over it already. Go join Plan Z (lol) or the emulation project.
MOST Gaming forums are just like these....nothing special or pleasant about the CoH forums from my experience on SWTOR, CO, DCUO, GWII etc....
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Oh, not shutting down a successful MMO was "giving it 5 more years of life" and an "extended sunsetting time frame". Gotcha. What color is the sky in your fantasy world?
A subscriber base that never dropped below 100k subscribers before it went free to play isn't a "small..declining group of players" by a long shot. Unless you're comparing everything to WoW numbers. You also have a very naive idea of "inhospitable forums". If you think these forums are inhospitable, you can't have much experience with internet forums, ESPECIALLY gaming forums. These are downright pleasant. Just because people tell you when you're wrong doesn't mean they're being "inhospitable"... |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Quote:
What do you base this off of?|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
You may want to look at how long most MMOs get for a sunset...On average 30 days and what did we get??? 90 days. (Please note I said average and not all before saying X MMO got 60 days or Y MMO got 90 days)
If it weren't for NCSoft CoH would have died in 2007. |
Quote:
| Your subscriber numbers are a little off. The BEST guess off revenue is that CoH had... 50-60k subs since Freedom. |
Quote:
| Who cares what it had PRE Freedom because that was a year ago and not NOW. 50-60k subs is not a thriving game no matter how you look at it; |
Quote:
| MOST Gaming forums are just like these....nothing special or pleasant about the CoH forums from my experience on SWTOR, CO, DCUO, GWII etc.... |
By the way, beginner forum etiquette 101: Quote top, reply bottom if not splicing within the quote.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
Obviously the profit was not reasonable for NCSoft; which is their business decision
CoH was not bringing in what NC wanted and they shut it down - that does not make them evil it makes it a business decision - a smart one imo.
I did not find those communities any more vile than this community; maybe that's because I looked at it objectively and not with rose colored sunglasses on as a CoH fan. Then again when someone/something is dying we tend to only remember the good things and tend to make it seem like it/they were more special than they truly were.
I always quote bottom....
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
What do you base this off of?
I didn't say anything about "since Freedom"... So, where are my numbers off? For a f2p game that has income from other micro-transactions, it's not bad at all. Subscriber games hang on with significantly less than 50k subscribers. The fact is the game was still pulling a reasonable profit... That alone is a success. Then your bias is showing. Most of those communities can be downright vile. Not Blizzard forums vile, but still pretty bad. By the way, beginner forum etiquette 101: Quote top, reply bottom if not splicing within the quote. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Quote:
Cutting a profitable project when you're keeping failing projects alive is a smart business decision? Remind me never to invest in any companies you may start.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Obviously the profit was not reasonable for NCSoft; which is their business decision
CoH was not bringing in what NC wanted and they shut it down - that does not make them evil it makes it a business decision - a smart one imo. |
Quote:
| I did not find those communities any more vile than this community; maybe that's because I looked at it objectively and not with rose colored sunglasses on as a CoH fan. Then again when someone/something is dying we tend to only remember the good things and tend to make it seem like it/they were more special than they truly were. |
Quote:
|
I always quote bottom....
|
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
If my bottom quoting bothers you that much...LOL
I have ALWAYS bottom quoted - it's not something against you or anyone it is simply how I reply on forums. Comparing it to a real life disgusting habit is uhmm weird. If my reply format bothers you as much as someone farting... LOL
I'll say it again: CoH forums are not unique or special...kinda like the CoH community. You thinking they are does not make them so. I have read stories on other forums how X game has helped autistic children cope with their autism, how games have helped people come out of a deep depression, how couples have met/married/had kids, etc etc... These are not unique to CoH. At the core of most MMOs is a supportive player base and to think it is only a CoH thing is nothing short of conceited.
If you consider my posting style to be rude and use that as justification to act rudely that is your choice. I consider my posts to be realistic and blunt. If you want to be rude go ahead it won't affect my opinion of you or this community...that opinion has been the same for quite some time. I didn't play this game because of it's community...I played it because I liked the game. I don't let other people's rudeness/politeness dictate my experience.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Cutting a profitable project when you're keeping failing projects alive is a smart business decision? Remind me never to invest in any companies you may start.
This isn't a new perception of mine since the announcement that the game was closing. It's one I've held since day 1. Odd how I'm the one not being objective because my opinions don't line up with yours. My own experience aside, I've heard similar complaints of hostile communities from those games. Few to none regarding this community with the possible exception of those who come here spouting severe negativity and aren't welcomed with open arms. But that happens in any gaming community. Stop it. You're not being "unique" or "cute" or "clever". Just obnoxious. It breaks the flow of the conversation. This is like when someone complains about you farting at a tea party just responding "I always fart at social events". It's a small thing, but it's basic netiquette. Your dismissive indifference only shows a complete lack of respect that tells me I'm wasting my time trying to be reasonable with you. It might also be an example of an attitude that would explain why you might be treated less warmly than most people here. You act rude, expect to be treated rudely in return. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Quote:
Do it even matter where the quote is? |
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
If my bottom quoting bothers you that much...LOL
I have ALWAYS bottom quoted - it's not something against you or anyone it is simply how I reply on forums. Comparing it to a real life disgusting habit is uhmm weird. If my reply format bothers you as much as someone farting... LOL I'll say it again: CoH forums are not unique or special...kinda like the CoH community. You thinking they are does not make them so. I have read stories on other forums how X game has helped autistic children cope with their autism, how games have helped people come out of a deep depression, how couples have met/married/had kids, etc etc... These are not unique to CoH. At the core of most MMOs is a supportive player base and to think it is only a CoH thing is nothing short of conceited. If you consider my posting style to be rude and use that as justification to act rudely that is your choice. I consider my posts to be realistic and blunt. If you want to be rude go ahead it won't affect my opinion of you or this community...that opinion has been the same for quite some time. I didn't play this game because of it's community...I played it because I liked the game. I don't let other people's rudeness/politeness dictate my experience. |
Either way someone will always complain.
I kind of like the bottom quote. You read what the person has to say first then followed by what they are replying to.
-Female Player-
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Quote:
You guys buddies, a couple or the same dude dual boxing the forums? |
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Do it even matter where the quote is?
Either way someone will always complain. I kind of like the bottom quote. You read what the person has to say first then followed by what they are replying to. |
If neither, you guys should consider the first two. 
I actually looked on the interwebs about this LOL! I have been posting in forums for about 16 years now and have always done what is called "Top Posting" where your post is on top of the quote. There is no ONE way that is considered acceptable online is what I have discovered. Some people prefer Top Posting (me) while others prefer Bottom Posting (Tyger) BUT there is nothing saying either is considered universally correct; nor is either way considered universally offensive.
Here is one of the "reasons" Top posting is more common now than it was say when Usenet etc were the main "forums":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_posting
Quote:
So while some may think it's rude; others do not...but I am pretty sure most people consider farting at a tea party rude. I was bored at work and looked for the netiquette surrounding this and basically found that it is about personal preference. Netiquette regarding forums is the usual; don't spam, don't swear, read the forum FAQ etc: http://forum-services-review.toptenr...ette-tips.html| Top-posting is a natural consequence of the behavior of the "reply" function in many current e-mail readers, such as Microsoft Outlook, Gmail, and others. By default, these programs insert into the reply message a copy of the original message (without headers and often without any extra indentation or quotation markers), and position the editing cursor above it. Moreover, a bug present on most flavours of Microsoft Outlook caused the quotation markers to be lost when replying in plain text to a message that was originally sent in HTML/RTF. For these and possibly other reasons, many users seem to accept top-posting as the "standard" reply style. |
So I will continue to Top Post until 11/30 because that is how I have done it for 16 years now and it is my preference. If that bothers anyone SO much that they choose to ignore my posts, ignore me, etc... uhmm that's their issue not mine
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Do it even matter where the quote is?
Either way someone will always complain. I kind of like the bottom quote. You read what the person has to say first then followed by what they are replying to. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
No clue who Evil is. The friends I had in-game do not post on the forums.
Already happily coupled up with someone else hehe
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Starsman
You guys buddies, a couple or the same dude dual boxing the forums?
If neither, you guys should consider the first two. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Quote:
Buddies? Me and Toast? I guess you never seen any of our prior run ins with each other and most are not even around anymore, but through all of that, I always had respect for Toast.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
You guys buddies, a couple or the same dude dual boxing the forums?
If neither, you guys should consider the first two. |
It just he is saying exactly what I have been saying and or would of said anyways. And I'm not a dude. And unlike many I dont only reply to post I disagree on or looks for post to call someone stupid or idiot because I dont agree with them. If I see a post and it's in me to post I will, even if it's something I agree with. And his current idea in his posts, regardless of past relationships and even if he still hates my guts, the idea and statement is what I agree with. I leave personal feelings out of it when replying to an idea whether I agree or not unless someone attacks me first and make it personal. Thus far, you havent nor anyone outside the regular few, thus, I stick to the idea.
Although I'm not too keen on the implying that we are both dudes, which I'm not, and are a couple, which we are not, but meh, I think the wink means joking or something so no harm no foul. I see the intentions and dont look liek it was meant to be mean.
I think I've been talking about how rude this forum has been for a while, according to one person or two. I think we finally just crossed paths with the same idea and now know it isnt just me that noticed it as many have implied in the past.
I noticed that people will always find something to complain about in a post whether it's spelling, grammar, format, length, subject, word choice, view, opinions, facts, evidence, lack of evidence, truths, lies, quotes, and now even placement of quotes. There is no way to please everyone or else there would be no way to make a post so might as well do it as the poster sees fit. Either way, someone isnt going to like it.
Plus placement of quoting is a very small issue not even worth bring up in my opinion, but others feel differently.
Nettiquette? What nettiquette? This forum hasnt shown nettiquette or even so much as ettiquette as a whole in a while and even less in recent times since the famous announcements.
-Female Player-
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Quote:
basically.
|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
I actually looked on the interwebs about this LOL! I have been posting in forums for about 16 years now and have always done what is called "Top Posting" where your post is on top of the quote. There is no ONE way that is considered acceptable online is what I have discovered. Some people prefer Top Posting (me) while others prefer Bottom Posting (Tyger) BUT there is nothing saying either is considered universally correct; nor is either way considered universally offensive.
Here is one of the "reasons" Top posting is more common now than it was say when Usenet etc were the main "forums": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_posting So while some may think it's rude; others do not...but I am pretty sure most people consider farting at a tea party rude. I was bored at work and looked for the netiquette surrounding this and basically found that it is about personal preference. Netiquette regarding forums is the usual; don't spam, don't swear, read the forum FAQ etc: http://forum-services-review.toptenr...ette-tips.html So I will continue to Top Post until 11/30 because that is how I have done it for 16 years now and it is my preference. If that bothers anyone SO much that they choose to ignore my posts, ignore me, etc... uhmm that's their issue not mine |
-Female Player-
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Quote:
Getting subscriber numbers is a bit murky since most don't give that out but one can get a "ballpark" guesstimate from revenues.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
A subscriber base that never dropped below 100k subscribers before it went free to play isn't a "small..declining group of players" by a long shot. Unless you're comparing everything to WoW numbers.
|
With a 100k subscribers, one can expect (very roughly) that there would be around $3.6 million in revenues (assuming all players on $12/mo - yearly plan...unlikely) to maybe $4.5 million ($15/mo - monthly plan).
With that in mind, the last time CoX's actual revenue came close to $3.6 mil was back in 2Q-3Q 2009. Exception to 3Q 2010 $4.8mil mainly because that number is skewed by GR sales.
Immediately after Freedom's sales spike, CoX revenue in 1Q 2012 was $2.6 million. Which might place VIP numbers somewhere in the vicinity of 58k - 72k subscribers *.
* Of course also using the assumption 100% of revenues is only from subscriptions which is unlikely even before F2P, so it's likely to be less than that.
Personally, i would lean towards the lower end range subs.
Quote:
I'm not saying the other forums haven't done the good stuff. That doesn't make them not a hostile place overall. The good doesn't automatically nullify the bad. I just know I see a LOT more venom and hate toward other posters on other forums than here.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
If my bottom quoting bothers you that much...LOL
I have ALWAYS bottom quoted - it's not something against you or anyone it is simply how I reply on forums. Comparing it to a real life disgusting habit is uhmm weird. If my reply format bothers you as much as someone farting... LOL I'll say it again: CoH forums are not unique or special...kinda like the CoH community. You thinking they are does not make them so. I have read stories on other forums how X game has helped autistic children cope with their autism, how games have helped people come out of a deep depression, how couples have met/married/had kids, etc etc... These are not unique to CoH. At the core of most MMOs is a supportive player base and to think it is only a CoH thing is nothing short of conceited. |
Quote:
| If you consider my posting style to be rude and use that as justification to act rudely that is your choice. |
Quote:
| I consider my posts to be realistic and blunt. |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
I decided to go back to Anarchy Online for my MMO fix.
Sure, AO is old (prehistoric if you want) and has accumulated a lot of broken promises over the years (profession rebalancing, new engine) but the "twinking" gameplay and the math it involves is interesting for me.