How do you define player skill?

I define a skilled player by the fact that s/he's not killing or annoying (powers wise, not personality wise) me or the team/league*. If s/he's not doing those, then they're skilled enough for me and I don't need to take it any further.




*I'd prefer it if they didn't kill themselves along with it, but if they can handle their own rezzing, or we have enough rezzing to cover their suicides, I don't care.

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Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

They rock their respective build to the fullest of it's capabilities and demonstrate proper situational awareness while demolishing the enemy and supporting the team.

For me, the difference between good players and bad players largely revolves around their mindset and not the sum of the individual skills they have (game knowledge, reflexes, min/maxed builds, etc.) If someone shows that they have a willingness to learn, adapt, work with other players, patience and so forth, they will naturally develop "skills" that improve their game play with time and experience. Personally, I'd rather team with players with those attributes on a build with SOs than someone with a min/maxed build that refuses to co-operate with a group.

I define Player Skill as something that no one should bother spending time defining.

I judge it by a combination of how easily and how well a person accomplishes something that they set out to do... Whether that be:

• reducing an enemy's hit points faster than their own (and their team/league-mates') are reduced
• putting together a costume
• creating and/or portraying a character/concept
• bringing fun to themselves and/or other players along with them

I think some folks are verging into defining good/bad players, whereas I would term skill as more a personal matter of knowledge, awareness, and ability to combine the two in practice to reliably good results.

Knowledge of your own powers, and how they will work in a certain environment, how it will act when solo, how it will act on a team, how it will act against a certain enemy. Then using timing to gauge and correctly how/when to use those for best effect.

But you know what? I've met many skilled players, and would prefer what I term as 'good' players. (Yeah, I know, that's a VERY subjective term, but let me explain)

Skilled players can solo a +4x8 mob and still act like a jerk. Skilled players can coordinate with a team to run an ITF in record time, and care less if the newer player is getting blasted as they barely keep up in the back. I've met "good" skilled players, "bad" skilled players, "good" unskilled players, and "bad" unskilled players.

In the end, while having the ability, knowledge, and awareness to master this game mechanically is great, if you aren't willing to listen, respect other players, and try to have fun ALONG with other people, (rather than only focusing on what YOU enjoy) I would rather play with a newbie who would. Listening, cooperating, and keeping interactions at least pleasant aren't something that take "skill", they just take the will to choose to do them. These are things that differentiate the "good" from the "bad" in my mind; (and yeah, there are many shades between the two) though skill finishes missions quickly, earns badges, and takes down enemies without hassle, I would rather a player who, regardless of reflexes, knowledge, or realiable results still makes being around them a fun time. As such, I find skill to be far less important than whether you can act well with others.

Skill is sort of a "relative" term for lack of a better way to express myself. I sometimes team with a player that, from what I understand, is a very skilled and capable PvP player. He has a fantastic build that even allows him to solo Pylon on Mothership raids. The problem is his TEAMING skills aren't the best in the world. He's been kicked off teams because he feels like he knows more than just about anyone else ane will totaly ignore a leaders instructions and just go do whatever he pleases. At times this has little if any impact on the team but at times it can mean while he's showing off half the team is dying because he's not there controlling aggro. Same player different situation.. at times, when no one else is available, he will organize and "LEAD" a trial. As a solo player, PvP or PvE, he may be great but as a team leader his skills at communicating and planning are terrible. The time to ask how many people have t3 or t4 clarion durning an Underground Trial is before the league goes into Queue not a minute before you enter the final chamber only to discover you have one member with t3 (true story and yes we failed). Your instructions to the league before starting the final phase of a MOM trial can't be STAY OUT OF THE PINK STUFF and then get upset when players, new to the trial, don't kill a nightmare close to Mother Mayhem and she keeps getting to the center of the chamber because no ones holds work (also a true story and YEAH we failed that one too).

To me a Skilled, or as Mephis Bill pointed out, an experienced player is one that knows their powers and how and when to use them. They know what they need to do to support their team and they actually do it. To be perfectly honest I don't view dying in a mission as an indication of poor skills.. I personally have several characters with Rise of the Phoenix and have absolutely no qualms about standing my ground and battling until I drop in a crowd then hitting Phoenix and watching that crowd scatter as my rebirth blasts them and kills many that had already taken damage. In other word I know what my powers can do and I actually plan my attacks around them to maximize the support i give to myself and my team.

Skill can also include knowing your enemy and what works and doesn't work against them.. this applies to both powers and tactics. Rushing headlong into a huge mob of Council and just pounding away till they are gone may work perfetly fine for a certain type of tank or brute. Rushing headlong into a group of Carnies that will use their mez to leave you frozen helpless while their Ironmen beat you to death and then turn on the rest of your team may NOT be the best idea in the world if you don't have Mez protection.

Like you I can sometims tell just how well or badly a TF or trial will go by listening to my team mates chat before hand. A team mate that won't shut up for a minute and actually listen to a leader giving instructions generally means trouble. This generally mean they think they know everything and are going to do whatever they please inside even if it means the team suffers or it means they assume they don't need instruction because every mission is the same and you can do things one way all the time and win. BTW for those reading this that THINK that way .. I'm sorry no that isn't right and blaming the 7 - 23 other members of your team for DYING after you screw up doesn't change that fact.

To me the easiest way to determine if someone is skilled is by watching how they play.. Thankfully this usually doesn't involve team wipes ect. I have used the rating system for some time to WARN me about certain leaders and certain players. There is a player out there with one star over his head and a note that reads .. would not pay attention to leader and was flying during AM battle on Keyes.. melee players couldn't reach the Av half the time. Of course players do learn, grow and usually get better. A leader I know used to have two stars and some rather bad comments in note and then a month or so later without realizing, cause he was on another one of his characters, I teamed with him again and he was outstanding. I uppped the starts over his head.. left the original comments but added.. OKAY he got BETTER!

My definition of player skill has a few criteria:

1a) Are you having fun?
1b) Is your fun impeding MY fun?

If the first is Yes, and the second is No, I'm good.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

Skilled:

• Knows how to use their powers (Hurricane with Melee is fine if you brush opponents for the ToHit Debuff, or Herdicane)
• Can speed if needed, or mow if needed
• Won't repeat impossible tasks (Hello, you who invited to a Praetorian kill team and everything was PURPLE and you refused to lower difficulty despite multiple team wipes!)
• Will adapt to team ability (see above)
• Can direct/follow in trials, know your role
• Can make everyone's gaming a bit more fun..

Players can be skilled with their own toon, and that's okay, but what I appreciate in teaming is when a player acknowledges all the powers on the team, and how players are using them, and integrates themselves into the mix in a way that helps members of the team use their powers.

It's like any team sport. You fit in and sacrifice usage of this or that tactic or power, if needed, to improve the abilities of the team.

No matter what powers players have, or how individually skilled they are, I always appreciate it when I'm playing with groups that focus on team play, especially if they don't require much chatter to get organized.

One who can leverage their characters strengths to exploit the games mechanics.

Not exploit as a dirty word mind you.

There is a difference between skilled players and good players. Of course one can be both, but you don't always find both qualities in an individual.

I agree a lot with what wicked wendy said. I play this game because I like the teaming aspect. I have no problem if one plays coh like a single player game. However, in a team, everyone is playing towards a goal, be it xp, a badge, merits, etc. each player is responsible for their own at, but each one has to contribute towards the goal. A skilled team can accomplish the objective in 15 mins, while a not-so polished team may finish (not guaranteed) in 50 mins.
But the hardest thing to figure out is who falls in which category. I have my own notes and use the rating system. Additionally, one of my friends set up a global chan and we only invite players that we like. Sort of elitist? kinda, but it at least gives the leader a source to recruit from.

There's a few skills in CoX I notice in other players.

1) Knowledge of the character build system. Can you put together a character who's effective, or are you, for example, leaving your mez protection too late because you dont get what it does? Most players get this, occasionally you meet a new player who hasn't acquired this yet.

2) Teaming skills. Do you drag your team into an old story arc mission full of greys, or get flustered if you run out of radio missions or tips?
3) If you're field leader, eg Tanking, can you keep up a good pace an know when to break for the next spawn, or do you stand around waiting for everyone to say "ready"?

4) Twitch skills. Can you survive big high level groups of enemies on a Blaster? I've got a friend who amazes me by doing just this, hopping around keeping the enemy AI confused, hitting insps, ducking in for a Drain Psyche and pulling off things I couldn't do easily on a similar build.

5) Special enemy knowledge. Do you make sure someones tagging the Immunes Surgeons quickly, or let everyone just try to overpower them with DPS? Do you try to stop Paragon Protectors god-moding or just batter them for a minute until they drop?

None of this is hard and fast. I've seen "Picasso builds" - people who terrible looking builds who do play really well through twitch skills.

Its always a pleasure to run across a teammate with any of these skills though.

Mostly I think it's recognizing what other players are doing and working with them as opposed to against them, that defines a good player to me.

Also knowing what your own character is capable of.

And once you know what you're capable of -- then going beyond that is okay too. ^_^ I know a lot of "red dot tanks" (as an example), IE blasters who like to be the first one in. They're good players, they die more frequently than a careful blaster, but it's not because they don't know what they're doing.

I could talk a lot more about specifics, but that's what it comes down to for me.

Does having level +53 All tier 4 incarnate power Plant/Nature Controller count?

Or level +52 BM/Nature MM?

^^?

I'd say that, yeah, it indicates some degree of skill - in that you've figured out how to get what you want from the game.

I used to take ages to crawl through the lower levels. Now I can get a character to 50 in around 50 hours typically, without really trying. The game has got easier, with smoothed out XP curves and patrol XP and so on, but mainly, I've got more skillful at navigating the game world. I know what to do, how to get on teams, how to use global channels, what each powerset and enemy group does, how to make inf and buy good recipes, and so on.

If all else is equal, is a player with a 50+3 Tier 4 incarnated character more skilfull than a player who plays just as well but only has a level 30 character after say a year's play? I'd say so.

I have several tiers of what classifies as skill.

Tier 3: Prior knowledge. This is the "before the fight" information that a player needs to know in order to be skilled. This includes things such as what powers do, when to use them, what different ATs do, what enemies do certain stuff, when not to use certain powers, and where to go. This kind of skill is quite easy since a lot of this information can be copy/pasted and given to other players, making things like FotM builds and handy guides on what to do. If you walk into a situation with no knowledge of what your powers do or why you would use them, then you're not very skilled. Generally, in this game this is defined more as the powers you need to do a job rather than having all of the most excellent powers possible. If you are doing the job you've set out to do, then it isn't too important whether you took leadership or concealment. The most important facet is that a player has the necessary mindset to acquire, divine, or accept this information, and any player who is unwilling to accept will find themselves very quickly on my ignore list.


Tier 2: Execution. This is how well you do things. Generally, having better choices, higher reaction times, and more precision with your actions. A player who has to take a 30 second break to figure out what to do when an ambush approaches generally isn't very skilled. This quick decision making and precision really lends its hand to performance, even more so then having foreknowledge of the event. A fine example of a lack of execution is when you have players who hesitate to run into a group despite the fact that they are the tank/dominator that everyone is relying on and has been for awhile. (This was a unique feature of a failed MoM I was on once where all the tanks would refuse to rush the AV and the whole league would jump into the fight in a very "one at a time" manner). The opposite end of that extreme is LEEEEEROOOOY individuals who run in before people are ready, despite not having the powers or build necessary to handle the situation.

A subset of this is the ability to communicate, follow directions, and be situationally aware of what is going on. In multiplayer games, a line of communication is an important ability to have. I call this a "subset" since communication is itself part of execution and precision.


Tier 1: Problem solving. Generally, good problem solving skills by themselves will get you far in life. This holds true for videogames, too. The truly skilled player is innovative, capable of adapting to new or unusual situations, using non-conventional lines of thinking, and resolving issues as they arrive. Often times, the "leaders" of groups are the ones who have this ability. This is the rarest and most valuable form of skill since it is incredibly difficult to replicate and teach. Above all things, if you have problem solving skills, then everything mentioned prior in this post will come naturally as a product of those skills. Alongside of this is introspection and awareness, allowing you to see the problems to be rectified later.


You can give me a player with all the right powers, and I can work with him. Give me a player with all the right moves and things will be great. Give me a player with good problem solving skills, and we'll take over the world together.