With those new pool powers, origin pools, pools customization... Make petless MM worthy?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

I had an idea. I dont think its going out of my mind till I give it a try.
Wanted a fiery ninja with the whip attacks from MM Demon summoning.
Could take the 3 personal attacks, a secondary like TR, TM or TA...
Then fighting power pool with new cone fifht power, also fifht power from leaping pool, for more AoE goodness, Sorcery pool with the ranged attack, buffs and also the Heat Mastery that looks cool.
Some Incarnate flavour and...
Could be a total waste or something funny enough?
I dont need this character to be overpowered, just wondering if could be something worthy enough to give it a try with all that new pool powers, helping a lot filling concept and customization holes.
I mean, there are even more origin pools coming. Hope the natural one includes some weapon attacks.


 

Posted

You'll still be a petless mastermind.



I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.

 

Posted

Don't see why you can't give it a try as an alternate build. If you already have a Demon Mastermind, just twink a new build and mess around with petlessness.


 

Posted

Just keep in mind you can only take one 'Specialized' pool per character. So you'd have to pick one origin pool.

if you think you'd have fun with it, go for it. That's why we have alternate builds and the like.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelxman81 View Post
I dont need this character to be overpowered
Oh don't worry, it won't be.


@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
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Posted

I know its not going to be OP in any way.
This is a crazy idea.
I just think its cool we have some new pool powers and customization and tough about this again.
Im afraid people would not like to team with this character.
But I think I will give it a try, I like this kind of crazy stuff.
I dont have any MM, the idea is to play like a blaster/melee using pool powers.


 

Posted

Yes, you can make a petless MM with a solid attack chain. On the other hand those attacks are still tied to the MM's anemic damage scalars so a Corruptor with the same secondary will be providing stronger buffs/debuffs and dealing more damage.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalMaden View Post
Oh don't worry, it won't be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Yes, you can make a petless MM with a solid attack chain. On the other hand those attacks are still tied to the MM's anemic damage scalars so a Corruptor with the same secondary will be providing stronger buffs/debuffs and dealing more damage.
I suppose with the upcoming pool additions it might almost be possible if you also min/maxed it with a perfect set of enhancements to beef it up. But no matter what you did to try to offset the core weakness of a "Mastermind not using its pets" at best I think you'll only get it up to being "playable". Something like this will probably never be "over" powered no matter what you do.


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Posted

I kinda understand what you are trying to do, but I also want to reach through the internets and slap you too.

Just play a fiery ninja with a whip who also summons demons. Geeze, is that really hard?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy1234 View Post
I kinda understand what you are trying to do, but I also want to reach through the internets and slap you too.

Just play a fiery ninja with a whip who also summons demons. Geeze, is that really hard?
I dont like pets, or MM for that matter.
If we had whip melee I would not be tripping with this crazy thing, got it?


 

Posted

I still want Whip Assault for Dominators.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by gameboy1234 View Post
I kinda understand what you are trying to do, but I also want to reach through the internets and slap you too.

Just play a fiery ninja with a whip who also summons demons. Geeze, is that really hard?
I play a Peacebringer without Nova or Dwarf form because I frankly don't like how they look or how they work. Sure there's probably plenty of evidence to suggest that I'm gimping myself by doing that, but I've still had years of fun with the character regardless. *shrugs*

I honestly don't know how playable a petless Mastermind is or could ever be. The only real "problem" with it is that some teams might not be willing to tolerate someone playing something that gimp by design. A petless Mastermind player has to be willing to understand that some people won't want him/her on a team. But if you can get past that then I don't have a big deal with someone trying this as sort of fun semi-serious experiment.


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Posted

I say a petless mastermind would be a viable option, if their three attacks were given more base damage and recharge, and if an MM's Supremacy inherent buffed those attacks just the same as it buffs minions.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
I play a Peacebringer without Nova or Dwarf form because I frankly don't like how they look or how they work. Sure there's probably plenty of evidence to suggest that I'm gimping myself by doing that, but I've still had years of fun with the character regardless. *shrugs*

I honestly don't know how playable a petless Mastermind is or could ever be. The only real "problem" with it is that some teams might not be willing to tolerate someone playing something that gimp by design. A petless Mastermind player has to be willing to understand that some people won't want him/her on a team. But if you can get past that then I don't have a big deal with someone trying this as sort of fun semi-serious experiment.
Actually at the high end human form Peacebringers are just as good, if not better, than triform peacebringers.

Its more like a tanker not having any of his armor powers.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
I play a Peacebringer without Nova or Dwarf form because I frankly don't like how they look or how they work. Sure there's probably plenty of evidence to suggest that I'm gimping myself by doing that, but I've still had years of fun with the character regardless. *shrugs*

I honestly don't know how playable a petless Mastermind is or could ever be. The only real "problem" with it is that some teams might not be willing to tolerate someone playing something that gimp by design. A petless Mastermind player has to be willing to understand that some people won't want him/her on a team. But if you can get past that then I don't have a big deal with someone trying this as sort of fun semi-serious experiment.
The difference is that Kheldians were designed as an archetype to be buildable in different ways and still be viable (human only, Nova, Dwarf, tri-form). The same can't be said of Masterminds. The fundamental attributes of the archetype (HP, damage, etc.) are based on the fact that you'll have anywhere from 1-6 pets with you. The best a petless Mastermind might hope for is "quasi-viable", playable in a basic sense but not really worth the effort to get there.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelxman81 View Post
I dont like pets, or MM for that matter.
If we had whip melee I would not be tripping with this crazy thing, got it?
No. Petless masterminds are just a bad idea. We can't prevent you from making one, but we're telling you it's dumb. Expect to solo a lot. You asked if the concept was "worthy." No it's not. You asked if it would be a total waste. Yes it would be.

Right up there with "pure healers." You give up too much in exchange for whatever character idea you have.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
... gimp by design. A petless Mastermind player has to be willing to understand that some people won't want him/her on a team.
Right, this is what the player is asking. (Or appears to be asking; I get the feeling he's already made up his mind.) It *is* gimp by design. There's no way you could do this and make it viable. You'd always be carried by your teammates.

Sure you can physically do it, but expect to be booted a lot. I've actually had a petless mastermind on my team. If I didn't already have a full and awesome team, I would have told him no. (He actually told me before hand.) As it was, I kinda tolerated it, but I don't think I'd repeat it. Worse, actually, than a "pure healer," though I find those pretty darn gimp too.


 

Posted

Solution: Make your petless mastermind. Solo to 15 or whatever level it is dual builds unlock. Make an alternate build that's actually useful (read: has pets and upgrades) for teaming. Solo with your gimped build on +0x1, switch to alternate build if you feel like involving yourself with other players.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
I still want Whip Assault for Dominators.
Whips are melee weapons!

So we need Whips for Scrappers/Stalkers/Tankers/Brutes.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar View Post
Solution: Make your petless mastermind. Solo to 15 or whatever level it is dual builds unlock. Make an alternate build that's actually useful (read: has pets and upgrades) for teaming. Solo with your gimped build on +0x1, switch to alternate build if you feel like involving yourself with other players.
This is what I should do, you right.
Just try to level the MM normally though I hate everything that comes with pets lol
Then when I got a medium high level like 40, try a petless build.
Not sure if I'll finally do it.
I know its is crazy... But it still comes to my mind, like I should give it a try.


 

Posted

I'm the resident expert on petless Masterminds!

Buffing the damage of the attacks yields less of a return than stuffing a bunch of damage procs on the build. You can cram four of the things into Brawl and get a greater return for each one than you would with a damage IO... At least, that's how it was with the old flat-rate procs. I haven't run the numbers for the I24 changes yet. Boxing is another good candidate for its low damage and fast cast cycle.

Although the powers that focus on protection are limited for Masterminds, the Archetype happens to have the same protection scalars as Tanker, meaning +Res and +Def toggle shields work better on Mastermind (and Tanker) than any other Archetype. Between Tough and, say, Shark Skin, you can get a good 66-70% resistance to Smashing and Lethal, out of a hard cap of 75%, which is probably going to be possible with the new set bonuses.

I have a Necromancy/Time Manipulation character in the works for my next petless Mastermind. The features that have become available between this one and my last one should make for quite a dandy improvement.

Performance-wise, my previous petless Mastermind was able to solo many of the Elite Bosses in the game without Inspirations or Temporary Powers. These include, among others, Black Scorpion, Romulus Augustus, Lt. Sefu Tendaji, Adamastor and Snaptooth.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
Performance-wise, my previous petless Mastermind was able to solo many of the Elite Bosses in the game without Inspirations or Temporary Powers. These include, among others, Black Scorpion, Romulus Augustus, Lt. Sefu Tendaji, Adamastor and Snaptooth.
You could solo the Tyrant and most of the forumites would still be all "lol petless masterminds".

I tend to find that kind of groupthink a bit distasteful. Using gut reactions to short circuit rational thought, even in the face of actual evidence to the contrary does not really do anyone any kind of good. I'm rather glad that you're continuing to prove them wrong.


 

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I welcome any and all video evidence as proof of claimed exploits regarding the prowess of a petless MM.


The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
I welcome any and all video evidence as proof of claimed exploits regarding the prowess of a petless MM.
Been there, done that. The response is still "lol petless mm", which means haters gonna hate. I don't approach that particular problem with hopeful aspirations of changing any minds.

Funny thing is, I've never, EVER, had anyone dismiss the idea in-game. Only people on the forums have ever been nay-sayers.