Is anyone surprised we haven't seen more use of Doppelganger technology?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-08-04 22:09 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I think there are a couple more tips that use it too. And don't forget the Posi tf. Which..could also be a factor in why it is not so widespread. Time Manip (and some other sets, forget which) were not functioning correctly on the Dopplers, meaning they would have far higher tier powers than they should. I recall some friends doing teh TF with..4 or 5 time toons..and ending up having to quit because they could not kill them.
But I do love the feature, it is really cool too see. In tips, they can be VERY tough on some combos..I remember my Km/Shield scrapper being one shotted by a lvl 53 'Me' with ConcStrike....not to mention blaster clones ripping you up with aim and bu!
Totally would love seeing a Lore pet version. Perhaps not being total clones, so you dont end up with say..an Emp/Psi fender have two clone pets, and STILL usless damage..it could be cloning either on of your power sets, into either a Assault or Support pet?
Our devs have a habit of introducing something really new and shiny, abusing the crap out of it, then forgetting about it completely a few issues later. For awhile, it was doppelgangers. Recently it was the dog model. I'm just glad they added the doppelganger stuff to AE.
I was really hoping the Dark Control pet that was so hyped up was gonna be a shadow version of yourself with a set list of abilities. But then we got dog. Honestly I'd love to see a mastermind set modeled after clones or duplication, like Multiple Man.
Well in the villain arc, you get to choose how many of you you face... all the way up to 8. It gets pretty absurd. I did it as a Demon/Thermal once. They were all hardcapped resistance, they kept rezzing and healing each other... I had to wait five levels and come back.
The DG's in that redside clone mission cheat even MORE..because they get powers of a higher tier, and the utterly stupid AE based throwing stars..that do like 300 damage.
And you have to do it with 8 enemies to get the Army of Me badge. Normally I just OD on inspirations, but a lot of 'force multiplier' kinda sets make me wait till I'm high enough to kill them.
I always thought Illusion control's graphics should've been changed to dopplegang you. Same 'powers' as they use now and all, just they look like copies of you.
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Maybe as an option in the customizer, I like mine how they are.
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Originally Posted by Agent White
I always thought Illusion control's graphics should've been changed to dopplegang you. Same 'powers' as they use now and all, just they look like copies of you.
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Pretty much this, Dopplegangers, the Four legged rig, the AE (which is a prime example of caring about it for like half a year and then stopped giving a toss about it).|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
Our devs have a habit of introducing something really new and shiny, abusing the crap out of it, then forgetting about it completely a few issues later. For awhile, it was doppelgangers. Recently it was the dog model. I'm just glad they added the doppelganger stuff to AE.
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Our devs have this weird ADHD, they'll introduce something be all "OHMYGODTHISISTHEBESTTHINGEVER!", spam the crap out of it until people aren't just tired of it but utterly fatigued with it and then move on to the next new hotness.
Thankfully they haven't been as bad over the past year as they were the last couple of years...apart from the Praetorian Storyline which is now ending after most people got sick to death of it.
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Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Well in the villain arc, you get to choose how many of you you face... all the way up to 8. It gets pretty absurd. I did it as a Demon/Thermal once. They were all hardcapped resistance, they kept rezzing and healing each other... I had to wait five levels and come back.
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Honestly I would have love to see the fight between Protean's men and my army of doppelgangers streaming through the gate.
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Get some utterly mad combos in that Army of Me.
I remember teaming with a friend..my petless demon/time (dont ask, I wanted to whip things) MM and her blast. EIGHT MM clones, with..6 pets each. 48 pets, 8 disruption fields, 8 slow aura. Yeah..not happening..lol.
So she switching to her cold fender, sleet'd them, heatloss, and..we win.
Moral of the story, Cold Fenders are BETTER than petless MMs. Did anyone see this coming?!
Thank the Great Maker they do not add more dopplegangers. I hate that stuff.
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I'd love to see that too, but I prefer an Armor set for melees to a mastermind to really mix things up in terms of the game. That way all the clone would have different attacks depending on your primary and it would appear on 4 different ATs instead of 1. I'd be less interested in just supporting them on a MM with a secondary set since so many MM sets basically do that, just with different looking pets.|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
Honestly I'd love to see a mastermind set modeled after clones or duplication, like Multiple Man.
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(For the Stalker version, the Hide ability could be the ability to lose yourself in the crowd, essentially.)
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I'm reminded of the final confrontation in The Three Amigos...
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Honestly I would have love to see the fight between Protean's men and my army of doppelgangers streaming through the gate.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
I was just thinking about this the other day for my main. The various lore pets do not really fit into my concept (Though I am still coming up with ideas) but one thing I thought of for a lore pet would be a simple Doppelganger. You summon two images of yourself, one being the lieutenant and the other being the boss. Or possibly just making an entire Mastermind primary out of it where you summon up to 6 clones of yourself.
It just surprises me we've seen so little of this technology which I think could be really fun. To my knowledge, it only appears in one story arc for each side and in a hero side tip mission. Some creative ways could be like an entire trial where you fight doppelgangers. Maybe its a Battalion thing, or a Crey experiment, but you fight entire groups of enemies that are doppelgangers of your league. |
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wat
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I'd love to see that too, but I prefer an Armor set for melees to a mastermind to really mix things up in terms of the game. That way all the clone would have different attacks depending on your primary and it would appear on 4 different ATs instead of 1. I'd be less interested in just supporting them on a MM with a secondary set since so many MM sets basically do that, just with different looking pets.
(For the Stalker version, the Hide ability could be the ability to lose yourself in the crowd, essentially.) |
I'm only replying because I saw this:
"And you have to do it with 8 enemies to get the Army of Me badge."
And I'm all "OH, now I gotta get me some of THESE!"
I'm glad I opened this.
Now... re: Doppelgangers... I don't want minions, I want to face off on them... but from others in my account, really, that's what I'd want.
Thing of Bigness vs Brawling Humilator... FIGHT!
Cerise Dawn vs Ruby Dawn... FIGHT.
THAT is what I'd like to see them use it for... lettin' me battle my own alts to see who'd win... and awesome screencaps. 
Without AE involved, natch. Just a random mission where you are alerted to one of your alts going nutz and you gotta go get 'em.
/Silly idea, I know. But one can dream...
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In this case, I'm actually behind the decision to not use the tech too much. Dopelgangers are one of these things that lose their lustre FAST if you overuse them, especially when you start having to come up with more and more contrived reasons for them to show up. Having Nemesis build one, that's fine. Having that whole Clone Lab thing? Fine. Having a double from another dimension, fine. But that's about the extent of it. When you start going from there, you're pretty much using a gimmick for the sake of using the gimmick, and that's a running problem in City of Heroes storywriting of late, even now.
Dopelgangers are like caged matches - you need to use them sparingly or they lose their specialness and start getting annoying and pointless. What I DO like doing, though, is force the dopelganger to spawn in as one of my outfits, then swap to another so I'm fighting a version of myself, but whose clothes weren't also cloned.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Hmm, remembering that mission, the one I had particular trouble with was on my Claws/EA brute. He'd been able to solo pretty well up until then but man...auto-hit Energy Drain + bounce my *** around with Focus...it was impossible to solo without kiting and pulling. And those clones spammed the crap out of ED and once my toggles dropped and they got a follow up and/or Slash, they'd slice through what defense I could muster up with inspirations.|
Originally Posted by MisterD
Get some utterly mad combos in that Army of Me.
I remember teaming with a friend..my petless demon/time (dont ask, I wanted to whip things) MM and her blast. EIGHT MM clones, with..6 pets each. 48 pets, 8 disruption fields, 8 slow aura. Yeah..not happening..lol. So she switching to her cold fender, sleet'd them, heatloss, and..we win. Moral of the story, Cold Fenders are BETTER than petless MMs. Did anyone see this coming?! |
Energy Drain is just too awesome in the hands of an NPC especially a group of them!
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Originally Posted by houtex
I'm only replying because I saw this:
"And you have to do it with 8 enemies to get the Army of Me badge." And I'm all "OH, now I gotta get me some of THESE!" I'm glad I opened this. Now... re: Doppelgangers... I don't want minions, I want to face off on them... but from others in my account, really, that's what I'd want. Thing of Bigness vs Brawling Humilator... FIGHT! Cerise Dawn vs Ruby Dawn... FIGHT. THAT is what I'd like to see them use it for... lettin' me battle my own alts to see who'd win... and awesome screencaps. Without AE involved, natch. Just a random mission where you are alerted to one of your alts going nutz and you gotta go get 'em. /Silly idea, I know. But one can dream... |
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Agreed. But I can still see other uses beside that. When I first heard of Mirror Spirit, I thought a cool power for her would be the ability to make a short lived copy of someone to attack her foes or defend her. Now that we've got doppleganer tech, I'd like some more arcs with heroes/villains with esoteric powers like that instead of just odd blends of our powers.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
In this case, I'm actually behind the decision to not use the tech too much. Dopelgangers are one of these things that lose their lustre FAST if you overuse them, especially when you start having to come up with more and more contrived reasons for them to show up. Having Nemesis build one, that's fine. Having that whole Clone Lab thing? Fine. Having a double from another dimension, fine. But that's about the extent of it. When you start going from there, you're pretty much using a gimmick for the sake of using the gimmick, and that's a running problem in City of Heroes storywriting of late, even now.
Dopelgangers are like caged matches - you need to use them sparingly or they lose their specialness and start getting annoying and pointless. What I DO like doing, though, is force the dopelganger to spawn in as one of my outfits, then swap to another so I'm fighting a version of myself, but whose clothes weren't also cloned. |
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Yeah, my clone has been one of the few non-AVs to give my main a real run for his money. *wipes tear* So proud....
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Originally Posted by MisterD
In tips, they can be VERY tough on some combos..I remember my Km/Shield scrapper being one shotted by a lvl 53 'Me' with ConcStrike....not to mention blaster clones ripping you up with aim and bu!
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Fighting a bunch of duel blade/regen stalker clones Is fun :3
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Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Well in the villain arc, you get to choose how many of you you face... all the way up to 8. It gets pretty absurd. I did it as a Demon/Thermal once. They were all hardcapped resistance, they kept rezzing and healing each other... I had to wait five levels and come back.
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Something for ppl to use
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Doesn't Darkness Control kind of do something like that already, at least in terms of concept? I've seen Dark Controllers use a confuse power that turns enemies pitch black and causes them to act like minions. In this sense, I agree with you - having an enemy who can spawn a mirrior of me as a power would actually be pretty cool. Or, hell, why not go the Shang Tsung route and have an enemy BECOME a clone of me?|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Agreed. But I can still see other uses beside that. When I first heard of Mirror Spirit, I thought a cool power for her would be the ability to make a short lived copy of someone to attack her foes or defend her. Now that we've got doppleganer tech, I'd like some more arcs with heroes/villains with esoteric powers like that instead of just odd blends of our powers.
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You're right, there are many uses of clones, and you're right that putting them in minor, non-story-related roles is a good way to not make them tiresome.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Darkness Control's Posses is just like Decieve or Confuse, only with cooler graphics. It is a long ST confuse on a low recharge.
I was just thinking about this the other day for my main. The various lore pets do not really fit into my concept (Though I am still coming up with ideas) but one thing I thought of for a lore pet would be a simple Doppelganger. You summon two images of yourself, one being the lieutenant and the other being the boss. Or possibly just making an entire Mastermind primary out of it where you summon up to 6 clones of yourself.
It just surprises me we've seen so little of this technology which I think could be really fun. To my knowledge, it only appears in one story arc for each side and in a hero side tip mission.
Some creative ways could be like an entire trial where you fight doppelgangers. Maybe its a Battalion thing, or a Crey experiment, but you fight entire groups of enemies that are doppelgangers of your league.