Well, when the Devs released Demon Summoning, they admitted that making the three attacks for the whip took as much time as developing a whole powerset. The animations on them were just that much harder to do. So, to give us 6 other animations for the whip would take as much time as getting 2 other new sets out.
Granted, things may have changed on that, but that was the last word we got from the Devs on whips.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Also, it was noted that the Whip is a flame whip specifically because then it could be a particle effect and not need to be a physical weapon (like an Axe or Bow)... thus making it disappear once the power was done animating and thus causing fewer issues and less animation time than a whip that would have to move around a lot when "drawn" like ordinary weapons.
So, unless something amazing happens... this isn't really an option.
Also, I see you noted holds and other "whiplatch" type powers. How exactly does that work? How would you be able to do additional attacks if your whip is holding an enemy? You can't very well attack AND hold a target with your whip.
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Well then obviously we need DUAL WHIPS!
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Also, I see you noted holds and other "whiplatch" type powers. How exactly does that work? How would you be able to do additional attacks if your whip is holding an enemy? You can't very well attack AND hold a target with your whip. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Ahhh yes. That sounds so much easier to do... and more logical in action too. |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well then obviously we need DUAL WHIPS!
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Tri-whips? |
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Ahhh yes. That sounds so much easier to do... and more logical in action too.
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
it would make more sense and be much more feasible to turn "Hellfire" into an epic pool combining some of the other demon hellfire attacks with the three whip attacks and then porting it to several ATs.
imo
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Originally Posted by daveyj3
it would make more sense and be much more feasible to turn "Hellfire" into an epic pool combining some of the other demon hellfire attacks with the three whip attacks and then porting it to several ATs.
imo |
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
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For a hold for whips, maybe a sort-of in-place stun? Something like "you smacked them so hard they're still reeling from it"?
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Also, I see you noted holds and other "whiplatch" type powers. How exactly does that work? How would you be able to do additional attacks if your whip is holding an enemy? You can't very well attack AND hold a target with your whip.
|
I wouldn't mind seeing the particle whips we have currently in game...but I have a feeling that a lot of players would want the real thing.
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easy, hold that/those whip(s) (drawn as a single tube between player and enemy, upto 15 enemies) in one arm and the animated attacking one in the other.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Also, it was noted that the Whip is a flame whip specifically because then it could be a particle effect and not need to be a physical weapon (like an Axe or Bow)... thus making it disappear once the power was done animating and thus causing fewer issues and less animation time than a whip that would have to move around a lot when "drawn" like ordinary weapons.
So, unless something amazing happens... this isn't really an option. Also, I see you noted holds and other "whiplatch" type powers. How exactly does that work? How would you be able to do additional attacks if your whip is holding an enemy? You can't very well attack AND hold a target with your whip. |
secondly, particle whips would be used as certain costume peices, so you can change what your whip actually looks like.
thirdly, I am a 3D modeller and game designer, a non particle whip is with-in thier grasps (polygon count wise) and animations for said whip are quite easy for me to do.
if push comes to shove I am willing to volunteer to do this for the devs should they accept the powerset. just want my name on the credits for the animation work ETC.
also some of the attacks also stun because of large impact or loud noise, please read each attacks description.
Standard Code Rant applies.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
After hearing Arbiter Hawk's comments about whips in today's Twitch.TV Coffee Talk I don't expect to see anything more than the one existing powerset to do with whips.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Whip, my favorite weapon in PSU;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPVsEF0KxKE
Or we could...if the game had the ability...we could do Ivy Shenanigans...but her Whip powers are so HAX heh.
I still love her though.
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why what did he say?|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
After hearing Arbiter Hawk's comments about whips in today's Twitch.TV Coffee Talk I don't expect to see anything more than the one existing powerset to do with whips.
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Cause I've already worked out a lowpoly way to make the holds and animations, if everybody wants I could go and model, rig, animate and code it and make a video on my livestream and post it in a link here, but I will admitt I have other obligations in game design that are actually making money for me so if you would like to see it it will be a secondary project for me atm.
for each video shown I will post the polycount, bone number and video memory used in MB allong with processor power taken.
trust me, it wont be much.
fact is I really want to see a whip based powerset for melee, so if doing all the work myself is what it takes then heck I'll do it.
Just need at least 1 dev's blessing of the project.
I don't recall his exact wording but it was pretty much what we've been told in the past. Within the context of what the game engine and animation system can do it is very difficult to do something like whips or chains so new ones aren't likely. Same thing we've been told by the animators that have to work with the game engine and animation system in the past. Same thing we've been told by others in the art team in the past. Same thing we've been told by anyone that's actually seen the capabilities and limitations of the game engine and animation system used.
I can't recall exactly how it was worded previously, but I remember someone saying it took more time and work to implement the whip attacks in Demon Summoning than it did for any other full powerset. Just the whip attacks. That's not counting all of the work on the Demons themselves.
I tend to accept the word of those that have actually worked with the game engine, powers systems and animation systems than that of anyone that hasn't done so.
If you want to hear his answer you can view it on their Twitch.TV page or on their YouTube page and hear his wording for yourself. It was one of the first questions asked and was somewhere around 42 or 43 minutes into the chat.
For the Twitch.TV link, click the videos tab on that page and it's listed by the date.
I've looked at their Careers page and they don't currently have any postings for Animators. From what I've been told in the past, they don't have non-employees doing powers design, animations, writing, or much of anything else.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Think someone brought it up in a chat channel on virtue about three or four months ago. It's a good idea but something about the difficulty on the animation process made it kind of hard to do, especially if it was a solid weapon instead of elemental, like the Demon Summoning one. Rumor has it that it took lot of time to complete the few power animations on demon summoning when they created it. |
Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...postcount=2412
I've been working up an Idea for this for some time (see the above) I happen to be a castlevania fan, I prefer the old belmont style game play. anyways a long while back I noticed demon summoning has that nice nifty flaming whip; shame the devs did all that work for only one attack.. unless; Whip Melee, a solution to the problem. Being a castlevania fan I just had to include a ranged whip-slung power ball attack as the last attack (#9) but I must say that is optional and can be replaced if necessary. as for the power set; I decided to give it holding and damage debuff abilities on several attacks, one single target, and one AoE. both being in spirit of indiana jones' Whiplatch technique. The set features smashing and lethal damage, but I realized some people might complain things like "I want to use [Damage type here] with my whip, it would be cool" so I included a damage type shifting power much like in dual pistols but with more selections to cover all bases, the damage type chosen is set to replace the Lethal damage which in most attacks is secondary or has it's own triggering conditions. the powerset has 3 Ranged attacks (because we all know whips can hit things at range) and 3 melee focusing mainly on AoE, then 3 damageless powers, 1: taunt/confront with a chance to confuse, 2: Damage shift and 3: A Rage like power. blasters and doms get an everlasting attack instead of taunt. anyways please take a look, I know I forgot to add a stealth power for stalkers and subsequent other things related to that but thats because I don't play stalkers much and didn;t know what would be the best adaptation. (thats open to discussion) anyways please read and discuss |
Now that time has passed, maybe a little more time like three more powers then three more then you have a set. It seems to be about one third of the way there already just need the other two thirds. Not yet sure how they would do it with non-elemental whips. But i'd settle for only elemental whips for now until they figure it out (if they was to make the set). Maybe by issue 30 or so it may be esily viable. In a game like this, losts of things change and one day whips may be one of the powers among us.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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I work with game engines, there are some (aka Unity and others like it) that place limitations on what you can make and what you can script without resulting to programming scripts.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
I don't recall his exact wording but it was pretty much what we've been told in the past. Within the context of what the game engine and animation system can do it is very difficult to do something like whips or chains so new ones aren't likely. Same thing we've been told by the animators that have to work with the game engine and animation system in the past. Same thing we've been told by others in the art team in the past. Same thing we've been told by anyone that's actually seen the capabilities and limitations of the game engine and animation system used.
I can't recall exactly how it was worded previously, but I remember someone saying it took more time and work to implement the whip attacks in Demon Summoning than it did for any other full powerset. Just the whip attacks. That's not counting all of the work on the Demons themselves. I tend to accept the word of those that have actually worked with the game engine, powers systems and animation systems than that of anyone that hasn't done so. If you want to hear his answer you can view it on their Twitch.TV page or on their YouTube page and hear his wording for yourself. It was one of the first questions asked and was somewhere around 42 or 43 minutes into the chat. For the Twitch.TV link, click the videos tab on that page and it's listed by the date. I've looked at their Careers page and they don't currently have any postings for Animators. From what I've been told in the past, they don't have non-employees doing powers design, animations, writing, or much of anything else. |
I use a better more versitile GE that allows me to fully edit every aspect of the game without much scripting at all, best part is I can import those files into Unity3D and any portions unity can't run are accepted as scripts, due to the fact my GE is open source unity can interpret it's operations into scripts.
and also I just finished a 5 minute animation a few months back, It was for a friend's final graduation assignment in university, she passed.
also, the devs are business men and women, if something free comes allong and offers to do things that they think would take a lot of time, believe you me they'll take it.
to be honest I can make the whip all on my own, animations included.
Well... I mean, Fire Melee has sword attacks, even though Fire Melee isn't a sword set.
So just sayin'.
The obvious choice is to combine it with thrown weapons and create a true Belmont Assault Powerset.
Start with the Whip attacks we have. Add the Castlevania sub weapons (Throwing Knives, Throwing Axe, Holy Water, Holy Book, Boomerang Cross) And we practically have an Assault/Manipulation set.
It'll never happen, and would be amazing, but yeah.
I would love to see a melee Whip powerset, 'specially for Stalkers!
Energy whips, classic whips even chain link whips!
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I agree with this but if they go that route, they can't call it Whip Assault/Melee.|
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind
Well... I mean, Fire Melee has sword attacks, even though Fire Melee isn't a sword set.
So just sayin'. |
One of the AVs in the Summer Blockbuster Event seems to almost exclusively use the Hellfire Whips from the DS set.
I could almost see a Hellfire (or other elemental based) set(s) of some sort using cheaters (modded versions) from other sets for animations (stand-alone or as companions to the current whip animations) for the whip-based powers within the set(s):
The Vine(s) portion of the Carrion Creeper power
Midnight Grasp
Living Shadows
Tenebrous Tentacles
Soul Tentacles
...and getting more mileage out of the set by allowing players to choose their element (ie. DP or SF)
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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exactly start simple, not like we need a softbody whip that interacts with everything it touches by physics, yeah that would be a female dog having puppies to script.|
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
I agree with this but if they go that route, they can't call it Whip Assault/Melee.
One of the AVs in the Summer Blockbuster Event seems to almost exclusively use the Hellfire Whips from the DS set. I could almost see a Hellfire (or other elemental based) set(s) of some sort using cheaters (modded versions) from other sets for animations (stand-alone or as companions to the current whip animations) for the whip-based powers within the set(s): The Vine(s) portion of the Carrion Creeper power Midnight Grasp Living Shadows Tenebrous Tentacles Soul Tentacles ...and getting more mileage out of the set by allowing players to choose their element (ie. DP or SF) |
you need to start with preset animations so what if when the character spins mid attack the whip spins with him without bending, same as many other attacks we already have.
no big whoop, just gotta make the whip's motions animated and fun looking.
can you say easy? heck the third scene of the animation I did had a slug in it, it's tail moved very easily for me bending in all directions ETC.
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How much experience do you have working with the Cryptic engine that this game uses?|
Originally Posted by JoshexDirad
I work with game engines, there are some (aka Unity and others like it) that place limitations on what you can make and what you can script without resulting to programming scripts.
I use a better more versitile GE that allows me to fully edit every aspect of the game without much scripting at all, best part is I can import those files into Unity3D and any portions unity can't run are accepted as scripts, due to the fact my GE is open source unity can interpret it's operations into scripts. and also I just finished a 5 minute animation a few months back, It was for a friend's final graduation assignment in university, she passed. also, the devs are business men and women, if something free comes allong and offers to do things that they think would take a lot of time, believe you me they'll take it. to be honest I can make the whip all on my own, animations included. |
When people with actual experience with the game engine and the animation system tell me that it's quite a bit of work and difficult to do in this game, I'll take their word over ANYONE that hasn't.
If you think you can do better than the people that are working on the game or have worked on it in the past, go for it. Apply at Paragon Studios and implement all of your ideas.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...postcount=2412
I've been working up an Idea for this for some time (see the above)
I happen to be a castlevania fan, I prefer the old belmont style game play.
anyways a long while back I noticed demon summoning has that nice nifty flaming whip; shame the devs did all that work for only one attack..
unless; Whip Melee, a solution to the problem.
Being a castlevania fan I just had to include a ranged whip-slung power ball attack as the last attack (#9) but I must say that is optional and can be replaced if necessary.
as for the power set;
I decided to give it holding and damage debuff abilities on several attacks, one single target, and one AoE. both being in spirit of indiana jones' Whiplatch technique.
The set features smashing and lethal damage, but I realized some people might complain things like "I want to use [Damage type here] with my whip, it would be cool" so I included a damage type shifting power much like in dual pistols but with more selections to cover all bases, the damage type chosen is set to replace the Lethal damage which in most attacks is secondary or has it's own triggering conditions.
the powerset has 3 Ranged attacks (because we all know whips can hit things at range) and 3 melee focusing mainly on AoE, then 3 damageless powers, 1: taunt/confront with a chance to confuse, 2: Damage shift and 3: A Rage like power.
blasters and doms get an everlasting attack instead of taunt.
anyways please take a look, I know I forgot to add a stealth power for stalkers and subsequent other things related to that but thats because I don't play stalkers much and didn;t know what would be the best adaptation. (thats open to discussion)
anyways please read and discuss