Whatever Happened to Golden/Silver Age Costume Parts?
By
Angelxman81,
Posted on: 2012-07-24 23:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Nah. I only bring out phrases like that when someone dials their posts up to 'Extreme Drama' levels.|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
I half-suspect you really just find some catharsis in typing "get over yourself," but you know, if ya'll spent more time trying to understand each other and less time trying to one-up each other, I bet all sorts of miracles would happen for us and for the game.
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On a side note, did you notice how many people posted that they agree with my comments? Or did that slip past you while you were busy speaking for the community?
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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Yo dawg, I heard you liked straw men, so I put some straw men on top of yo straw men, so you can straw men all over your straw men while you're straw manning.
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Again, I see a big fat straw man here. And yes, I'm using the term correctly. You people are misrepresenting my (and a few others) position, and then turning around and arguing against that misrepresentation rather than arguing against my position. Why? Who knows. But I would venture to guess it's because my position is not actually that arguable: which is that I love everything we have and that we're getting and that we're slated to get, but I'm disappointed that so much work went into something else that is not on the table and not on the schedule at all, meaning not in the pipeline and not being developed. They've got to work on something after everything else is said and done, right?
You keep telling me I'm comparing the value of these recent offerings, and I keep reminding you that I'm just as anxious for them and would have no interest in seeing the devs restructure their existing development schedule around a portion of the community's desire for classic super hero costume pieces. I keep reminding you people that lots of people spoke up for themselves in Savage's and Xanatos's threads, and you keep accusing me of speaking up for them, and I keep re-reminding you that no, they spoke for themselves.
Yes, the thousand suns line was cheesy, but it was off the cuff. All I meant was, the super hero comic book fans really want some more super hero comic book stuff. Not now. Not tomorrow. Day after tomorrow is fine. I don't hear too many people turning into the Hulk over this, but to hear it from you folks, you'd think we were. If you don't say what you want, you know what you might get? You might get something else.
All of the big disagreements I've ever had on these forums have revolved around accusations that I'm a blind fan boy. A few warts along the way have never soured me on the bigger picture--which is that City of Heroes is the best MMO and best "interactive comic book" ever made. If I'm entitled to anything, and I suspect I'm not, then I'm entitled to having one disagreement every couple of years or so without having it seemingly cancel out everything good I always have to say about the game. Is that too much to ask from you folks? Come on. Really? For folks who like to dress up in tights and do the right thing, you sure come off harsh. Villains get a pass, I guess. But the rest of you? I'm not that sensitive of a guy, but no one likes to be under the dog pile and threads like this make me wish I didn't post. It's just not right.
The thing that really frustrates me is that I know Zwillinger understood my message loud and clear, but I can't seem to get the message through to the rest of you folks that a strong desire to see our cooperative work lead to something substantial does not represent a contest between other themes in my mind, and never has. You keep bringing all of this other crap up that I absolutely love, and telling me that I'm angry that we're getting it. I keep saying "hey, apples," and keep hearing, "YOU can't oranges at US." Is that how it has to be around here? Black or white, right or wrong, apples or oranges? That's just not what the world looks like to me.
I would really like to have a normal conversation about a hot topic on these forums one day, without feeling like I am speaking through a babelfish on acid. I drop in to read the big threads even when I'm not posting, and I like a lot of you folks that are throwing rotten tomatoes at me today.
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One: No, there's no strawmen. None at all!|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Again, I see a big fat straw man here.
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Two: We argue and nitpick everything. If Zwillinger got what you said, then you're golden.
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Talking of Michelangelo.
I see what you did there.
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Unintentional, but let's pretend I'm all smooth and stuff. *slides on sunglasses, pokes eye* augh
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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
I see what you did there.
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Felt grindy after the first press.
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heres the thing. i suspect you dont understand how some of what you say comes off. the line about wanting" more superhero stuff in a superhero game" comes across as saying that what people want that is not 4 color tights and capes are not superhero themed, and furthermore does not belong. there is a very broad definition to what a superhero is that includes things like urban vigilantes, sci fi characters, some manga characters, and yes, even some fantasy themed characters, many of us greatly prefer that to the spandex and tights stuff, and making the argument in that fashion makes it sound like you dont feel that the broader superhero themed comic community is welcome.|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Again, I see a big fat straw man here. And yes, I'm using the term correctly. You people are misrepresenting my (and a few others) position, and then turning around and arguing against that misrepresentation rather than arguing against my position. Why? Who knows. But I would venture to guess it's because my position is not actually that arguable: which is that I love everything we have and that we're getting and that we're slated to get, but I'm disappointed that so much work went into something else that is not on the table and not on the schedule at all, meaning not in the pipeline and not being developed. They've got to work on something after everything else is said and done, right?
You keep telling me I'm comparing the value of these recent offerings, and I keep reminding you that I'm just as anxious for them and would have no interest in seeing the devs restructure their existing development schedule around a portion of the community's desire for classic super hero costume pieces. I keep reminding you people that lots of people spoke up for themselves in Savage's and Xanatos's threads, and you keep accusing me of speaking up for them, and I keep re-reminding you that no, they spoke for themselves. Yes, the thousand suns line was cheesy, but it was off the cuff. All I meant was, the super hero comic book fans really want some more super hero comic book stuff. Not now. Not tomorrow. Day after tomorrow is fine. I don't hear too many people turning into the Hulk over this, but to hear it from you folks, you'd think we were. If you don't say what you want, you know what you might get? You might get something else. All of the big disagreements I've ever had on these forums have revolved around accusations that I'm a blind fan boy. A few warts along the way have never soured me on the bigger picture--which is that City of Heroes is the best MMO and best "interactive comic book" ever made. If I'm entitled to anything, and I suspect I'm not, then I'm entitled to having one disagreement every couple of years or so without having it seemingly cancel out everything good I always have to say about the game. Is that too much to ask from you folks? Come on. Really? For folks who like to dress up in tights and do the right thing, you sure come off harsh. Villains get a pass, I guess. But the rest of you? I'm not that sensitive of a guy, but no one likes to be under the dog pile and threads like this make me wish I didn't post. It's just not right. The thing that really frustrates me is that I know Zwillinger understood my message loud and clear, but I can't seem to get the message through to the rest of you folks that a strong desire to see our cooperative work lead to something substantial does not represent a contest between other themes in my mind, and never has. You keep bringing all of this other crap up that I absolutely love, and telling me that I'm angry that we're getting it. I keep saying "hey, apples," and keep hearing, "YOU can't oranges at US." Is that how it has to be around here? Black or white, right or wrong, apples or oranges? That's just not what the world looks like to me. I would really like to have a normal conversation about a hot topic on these forums one day, without feeling like I am speaking through a babelfish on acid. I drop in to read the big threads even when I'm not posting, and I like a lot of you folks that are throwing rotten tomatoes at me today. |
furthermore, while it isnt you, one poster, and im pretty sure you know who, loves to go into threads about non-golden and silver aged costume sets and repeatedly states that he does want more "superhero" stuff and less whatever asinine buzzword he is stuck on for the day. It doesnt take too many appearances by him to start turning people against an idea, particularly when nobody else in the "bloc" tells him to take it down a notch and comes in with a more productive message.
Personally, i dont care, more variety is always good and while i find the capes and spandex thing campy, im sure i could pull something out of it, but when the message so often IS framed as a binary statement, "more superhero stuff less monsters, or anime, or whatever, then its a line to fight, and i have seen a few productive threads get derailed on that line, it wasn't spandex, so its time to throw a fit. If you feel you are being pulled along with undeserved hate, well, you are, and its not fair, but unfortunatly a few real jerks can build up a lot of ill will to people who are otherwise constructive. I'm sure that there will be new costume stuff eventually but it is a process, and hitting the mark with something that is representative but not already in game, not exactly what is wanted or a blatent ip violation is trickier than making a new martial arts outfit because you started with more. there weren't 30 patterns of imperial dynasty armor in-game, we had nothing in the kind of chinese armor mold before(the natural pack was more mortal kombat ninja..if that, im still unsure what that was actually was supposed to be, nothing martial arts i have ever seen) so we were happy with what we got. tights that are unique, thematic and original..i can see why its not easy.
If I came off like that AT ALL in any of my posts, apologies to anyone who got ticked off, but dude, I think I've tried to make it pretty clear I've got no problems with any of the other stuff. As far as that's concerned, I came into City of Heroes seeing it as an all-encompassing universe, and that was one of the biggest draws. I may be a big Marvel fan, but my favorite authors include Cory Doctorow, Kurt Vonnegut, Dan Simmons, Tolkien, I've read most of the Battlestar Galactica remake comics and X-Files comics, I've read almost every story on Orionsarm.com and written a few myself. If it's a massive universe inside of a consistent and self-contained continuum, my mind is open, and I say bring it. But there are a few things that the classic types could use, like seamed tights with patterns utilizing newer tech, masks that are real objects with full white eyes, and quivers. There are multiple threads with laundry lists.
If I wanted it solely my way, I'd actually be asking for contemporary super hero costume pieces inspired by modern-era comics and super hero movies, like seamed and ribbed non-spandex fabrics, masks with glowing colorable "whites," slim musculature-emulating armored suit pieces, and animated costume pieces like retractable body armor or hoods that can be pulled on. I think it would be a lonely fight for all of these things, so I've focused instead on something I can get behind that I like and that a significant number of others like too--the Silver Age (I'm not actually partial to the Golden Age, but like you say, variety is great).
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Wah.. really?|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
If I wanted it solely my way, I'd actually be asking for contemporary super hero costume pieces inspired by modern-era comics and super hero movies, like seamed and ribbed non-spandex fabrics, masks with glowing colorable "whites," slim musculature-emulating armored suit pieces, and animated costume pieces like retractable body armor or hoods that can be pulled on. I think it would be a lonely fight for all of these things, |
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| so I've focused instead on something I get get behind that I like and that a significant number of others like too--the Silver Age (I'm not actually partial to the Golden Age, but like you say, variety is great). |
This really exemplifies my point about "Gold/Silver age" doing more harm than good. And "A Golden Age" and "A Silver Age" being the ideal. Stop lumping yourselves and the ideas you love in together in places they ultimately don't belong, in order to be an "us" against a fictionalized "them" You've spent all this time justifying yourself in an argument over a topic you admit you're not necessarily as invested in as something else in the hopes that it might tangentially benefit your individual wants.
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Yeah, i get that it isnt you, like i said, undeserved hate due to a few bad apples...generally just one that i can think of, really. but i got your point, im just trying to explain why it is tough to put down arms when you are so used to having your threads invaded by unproductive elements and they track the very narrow definition of "superhero" along with them to get all the bad buzz.
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Originally Posted by Premonitions
And wildly divergent from one poster to the next,(myself included) With several different camps within the same thread asking for opposing things that both sides claimed was within the same genre, and many many claims for "general super hero stuff" a Functionally useless request when attempting to ask for "not x, but y" I.E. something specificIf you take out the numerous back and forth off-topic discussions(of which I was certainly a part) several multi and double posts by the same players(something I did, again) Trolls, Golden Girl, and Dev posts, the numbers were most likely about the same as the pummit, or, if greater, not by very much.
It's very often the same group of people making the Golden/Silver age(urgghhhh!) requests. Over and over again. It's not that less people want one over the other. It's that one group wants their thing more, and extremely dislikes when the other get's theirs. It's not that Golden or Silver Age are pushed for more it's that they are pushed for harder Bolded bit here, This is EXTREMELY debatable, because, again, Golden and Silver age are different things, and many people lump Pulp in with Golden age which further muddies the issue. This can be seen in the previous thread getting so noisy that NS made a second thread just to focus on the one thing they might have had in common. With Post-Apoc People asked for Mad Max and Fallout and got Mad Max and Fallout. With Retro Sci-fi they asked for Buck Rogers and got Buck Rogers. With Golden/Silver Age People Asked for: The Shadow, The Green Hornet The Rocketeer Old AND New Flash, The Original X-men The Clairmont X-men And The movie X-men As well as Spider-man Batman And Superman That is NOT a cohesive message. That's fifty years of about ten different artistic approaches at a most charitable minimum. I've already gone over this above, I'm just quoting it so nobody will say I ignored it. I do agree that there was an unintentional misinterpretation of the NS thread versus the very clear "We will make this set and put it in game" nature of the Pummit. This I disagree with. for pretty much the reasons I went into above Tldr the problem is:
People are going to have to bite the bullet and present one thing with the knowledge that they aren't going to get another(at that point in time) Ask for Golden Age, get Golden Age, wait for another opportunity for Silver age to have it's turn. Accept loss gracefully if it doesn't get that turn and try again later. |
Wow. I'm too tired to multi-quote so I'm going to respond as quickly and gracefully as possible because I frankly don't want nor care to be lumped in with some notion of an entitled group. So let's do this, and please...please let's not bog down in some semantics argument about who wants what more than some other whom, because this and frankly the sniping that's pervading things here is stupidly derailing an otherwise good discussion.
Look, I offered my viewpoint as precisely that. You're entitled to say that there were divergent opinions in those threads as much as I am to say that by their end, there were coherent costume pieces and sets being developed. And you can make the same argument about people wanting a themed set for any genre here, and I think it's unfair to categorise those wanting Golden/Silver Age themed costumes as some sort of unreasonable vocal minority. But if you want to try and beat a dead horse, you're welcome to that, too.
As for the rest....I give up. What I saw coming out of the Golden and Silver Age threads clearly isn't what you were seeing. I'm not pursuing a side, I'm not pursuing an agenda, I'm not demonising those who got the Post-Apocalyptic and Retro Sci-Fi sets, and I'm sure as heck not buying into going back and forth with you over 'unreasonable' or 'entitled' people wanting to see this set are.
Let me spell this out for you, mate. The asking has been consistent, respectful, ongoing and above all pretty clear. You're painting a picture for whatever reason that suits an argument of painting a picture of a group that's disorganised, full of unreasonable entitlement issues and out to attack anyone who disagrees with them. That's the impression you paint, even if that's not your intent, and it frankly out and out derails and does no good to a discussion that didn't need such silly nitpicking over semantics.
Knock yourself out, respond if you want. But your response is arguing for the sake of arguing and pointing fingers. To add myself to that foolishness is just that. Please enjoy your day, sir.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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Be patient |
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I think what the community REALLY wants is the Kheldian sash.
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@Golden Girl
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You seem to be gearing yourself up to get into a fight that isn't there.|
Originally Posted by SuperOz
Wow. I'm too tired to multi-quote so I'm going to respond as quickly and gracefully as possible because I frankly don't want nor care to be lumped in with some notion of an entitled group. So let's do this, and please...please let's not bog down in some semantics argument about who wants what more than some other whom, because this and frankly the sniping that's pervading things here is stupidly derailing an otherwise good discussion.
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| Look, I offered my viewpoint as precisely that. You're entitled to say that there were divergent opinions in those threads as much as I am to say that by their end, there were coherent costume pieces and sets being developed. And you can make the same argument about people wanting a themed set for any genre here, |
My point is the request for "Gold/Silver age" is not as coherent as those asking for other things because it's actually two, and maybe three, different requests pushed together.
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| and I think it's unfair to categorise those wanting Golden/Silver Age themed costumes as some sort of unreasonable vocal minority. But if you want to try and beat a dead horse, you're welcome to that, too. |
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| As for the rest....I give up. What I saw coming out of the Golden and Silver Age threads clearly isn't what you were seeing. I'm not pursuing a side, I'm not pursuing an agenda, I'm not demonising those who got the Post-Apocalyptic and Retro Sci-Fi sets, and I'm sure as heck not buying into going back and forth with you over 'unreasonable' or 'entitled' people wanting to see this set are. |
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| Let me spell this out for you, mate. The asking has been consistent, respectful, ongoing and above all pretty clear. You're painting a picture for whatever reason that suits an argument of painting a picture of a group that's disorganised, full of unreasonable entitlement issues and out to attack anyone who disagrees with them. |
That's two different guys asking for two different things. Both of them showing up in the same thread and claiming (and agreeing) to ask for the same thing makes the message inconsistent and disorganized. Silver Age fans should define what Silver Age is, particularly what makes it unique, and push for those things. Golden Age fans should do the same for their own. In different directions, as different groups.
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| That's the impression you paint, even if that's not your intent, and it frankly out and out derails and does no good to a discussion that didn't need such silly nitpicking over semantics. |
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Knock yourself out, respond if you want. But your response is arguing for the sake of arguing and pointing fingers. To add myself to that foolishness is just that. Please enjoy your day, sir. S. |
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Meh, at this point if it happens, then it happens. I had high hopes for the space pirate sash, but it is still not quite there.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Be patient
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As for the topic of this thread, I see where everyone is coming from. I personally like where most of the costume development has been going. Some excites me more than others, but on a whole I am happy.
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I do agree with this, however unfortunate that seems for my cause (to use the word loosely). The reason I throw in with the Silver/Golden Age requests is partly because, well, my personal requests may sound great to you Premonitions, but look how much feedback they've gotten in this thread since you replied to them. None. That is how much feedback those ideas generally get. A positive nod or two at most. People just don't want contemporary era super hero costumes. I wish they did, but more posting would probably not earn me any more traction than it has here.|
Originally Posted by Premonitions
My point is the request for "Gold/Silver age" is not as coherent as those asking for other things because it's actually two, and maybe three, different requests pushed together.
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So what's the next best thing? Well, the Silver Age. Except, I began to realize in Xanatos and Noble Savage's threads that a lot of people were referring to designs from Silver Age comics as Golden Age concepts, and I remember how Noble Savage had to struggle to pin down people's actual tastes. Within the game, I can't tell you how many times a player has run up to a Silver Age-inspired character of mine and said "Nice Golden Age suit." So, here is a problem that I guess I noticed a long time ago: lots of people don't know the difference between the Golden and Silver ages of comics. I'm not the only one to notice and I've seen people create huge posts full of comic book art depicting the differences. However, evidently this hasn't helped enough because, like you say, people are still asking for Golden/Silver Age packs. My suggestion would be for a dev to make an official poll, including comic book art depicting the differences right smack in the OP--so people have to look at it and think about it.
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You know, I thought about responding to your points, but then I actually looked at what you wrote and saw that your own bolded word of semantics is precisely what you're arguing. Done with your ridiculousness. Enjoy tilting at another windmill somewhere else. It's apparently your forte.|
Originally Posted by Premonitions
You seem to be gearing yourself up to get into a fight that isn't there.
You're taking my argument that These (Golden and Silver Age) are different styles, and putting them together in the same suggestion confuses the message as some kind of attack. Whereas it's just a statement I've been making(repeatedly) to help in clarifying the message for the benefit of the cause. My point is the request for "Gold/Silver age" is not as coherent as those asking for other things because it's actually two, and maybe three, different requests pushed together. They are neither a minority nor a majority. Which is the point. That is not an attack. Saying that your desires are completely equal to every one else's desire isn't an insult. That's fine, that's not the most important part of the discussion, here. Individuals have definitely been making consistent requests for what they individually want, certainly. But One guy asking for a plain patterned baggy-tights, High collared, domino mask and funny hat style is not consistent with another guy asking for a tight tights, Dynamically patterend, capeless half or full masked, under-arm webbing or wings style. That's two different guys asking for two different things. Both of them showing up in the same thread and claiming (and agreeing) to ask for the same thing makes the message inconsistent and disorganized. Silver Age fans should define what Silver Age is, particularly what makes it unique, and push for those things. Golden Age fans should do the same for their own. In different directions, as different groups. The "point" of this thread was to ask why such costume pieces weren't added or put on the schedule and express displeasure at such. Zwill explained the why. I think ultimately it's more constructive to discuss how to better direct the message to create the most effect on the dev team. This is not a semantics argument, this is a "These two things look different, stop saying they are the same" argument. Now who's misrepresenting the other side of the argument? |
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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Even though we're on the same side, this post does kind of make my point above. The difference between the Golden and Silver ages of comics is not a matter of semantics, and maybe in this case, we've presented the devs with a real problem in our pursuit of these pieces. I'm willing to admit that, even if it flies in the face of some of my previous posts. We may need to start trying to do a better job of defining exactly what it is we want to the devs. I say "we" because consensus does matter when it comes to getting what we want. We could use a little more cooperating and a little less mud slinging.
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Originally Posted by SuperOz
You know, I thought about responding to your points, but then I actually looked at what you wrote and saw that your own bolded word of semantics is precisely what you're arguing. Done with your ridiculousness. Enjoy tilting at another windmill somewhere else. It's apparently your forte.
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You know, I can agree with you on that and despite what Premonitions was protesting, I think that the threads were bringing together a cohesive idea. I worked in a comic book store myself for four years and got deep into researching the origins and styles of the Golden and Silver Ages, and there's a lot more crossover than people give it credit for. |
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Even though we're on the same side, this post does kind of make my point above. The difference between the Golden and Silver ages of comics is not a matter of semantics, and maybe in this case, we've presented the devs with a real problem in our pursuit of these pieces. I'm willing to admit that, even if it flies in the face of some of my previous posts. We may need to start trying to do a better job of defining exactly what it is we want to the devs. I say "we" because consensus does matter when it comes to getting what we want. We could use a little more cooperating and a little less mud slinging.
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But I personally just got tired of defending a viewpoint that I didn't even think was necessary because of suggestions of who was 'right' and 'wrong', etc. I'm all for discussion so long as it's not a blind for trying to be 'more right' than someone else. And the last four and a half pages were doing that fine.
There's a very easy way to seperate the Golden and Silver Ages of comics because of their origins. The Golden Age is very much rooted in what we'd call 'low level' superheroes, or more accurately pulp heroes like The Shadow or Doc Savage. It's not until 1938 with Superman that you get the circus-influenced tights with capes going on, with the exception of The Phantom from 1933. By contrast, the comics fiction of the Silver Age is heavily influenced by the Atomic Age post-WWII. It's the age of 3D, cheesy science fiction movies and television. And of course you have the acknowledged moment of the Silver Age with the Flash of the 1950's meeting the Flash of the 1930's.
It's not really that difficult, but a grounded understanding of the influences on art styles is key to following it. It's very easy to confuse the Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon serials of the 1930's and 40's and call them 'Silver Age', but it's what they spawned with the classic silver jumpsuits and 'ray guns' that creates a paradigm that's measured by the culture around it.
Anyways, I hope that at least demonstrates that said clear vision can be achieved with a little stepping back to a more objective viewing.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
i think that part of the issue is that when people say they want golden and silver age costumes they're thinking of Alex Ross' repaints in a more photorealistic style. At launch CoH was probably at least 95% Golden Age and Silver Age costume pieces, although i would say much more heavily weighted towards Silver Age. Those original pieces now look low rez and outdated compared to the newer costume sets, but then so did most of the comics of those eras compared to modern comics and Ross' reinterpretations of the older styles. Adding updated versions of the textures and patterns of the Issue 1 costume piece selections, and some newer mask and assorted accessory pieces with actual geometry would be all that's needed to supply Golden and Silver Age costume pieces if you actually want pieces that resemble the comics of that era.
For Crom's sake, Alex Ross' art is not representative of what comics of those eras actually looked like.
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It's also kind of important to note that what that would be is a complete overhaul of the current "Tights" options which, is a bit much to ask for by any standard. Better to take what is unique about each style and isn't currently in this game and fold it into one focused set(slipping a few muti-purpose "Detailed" tights options) filled with New things, and Accept that Golden age or Silver age loses out this time, than to attempt to get both with one generic and nebulously defined stone of "better tights". |
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
i think that part of the issue is that when people say they want golden and silver age costumes they're thinking of Alex Ross' repaints in a more photorealistic style. At launch CoH was probably at least 95% Golden Age and Silver Age costume pieces, although i would say much more heavily weighted towards Silver Age. Those original pieces now look low rez and outdated compared to the newer costume sets, but then so did most of the comics of those eras compared to modern comics and Ross' reinterpretations of the older styles. Adding updated versions of the textures and patterns of the Issue 1 costume piece selections, and some newer mask and assorted accessory pieces with actual geometry would be all that's needed to supply Golden and Silver Age costume pieces if you actually want pieces that resemble the comics of that era.
For Crom's sake, Alex Ross' art is not representative of what comics of those eras actually looked like. |
Post-Apoc fans asked for Road Warror and Mad Max and Got Mad Max And Road Warrior. Golden Age Fans should ask for Old Flash and Green Lantern(and possibly Captain America or Classic Batman) in order to get exactly that.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
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Quote:
Very informative and well said.
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Originally Posted by SuperOz
You know, I can agree with you on that and despite what Premonitions was protesting, I think that the threads were bringing together a cohesive idea. I worked in a comic book store myself for four years and got deep into researching the origins and styles of the Golden and Silver Ages, and there's a lot more crossover than people give it credit for.
But I personally just got tired of defending a viewpoint that I didn't even think was necessary because of suggestions of who was 'right' and 'wrong', etc. I'm all for discussion so long as it's not a blind for trying to be 'more right' than someone else. And the last four and a half pages were doing that fine. There's a very easy way to seperate the Golden and Silver Ages of comics because of their origins. The Golden Age is very much rooted in what we'd call 'low level' superheroes, or more accurately pulp heroes like The Shadow or Doc Savage. It's not until 1938 with Superman that you get the circus-influenced tights with capes going on, with the exception of The Phantom from 1933. By contrast, the comics fiction of the Silver Age is heavily influenced by the Atomic Age post-WWII. It's the age of 3D, cheesy science fiction movies and television. And of course you have the acknowledged moment of the Silver Age with the Flash of the 1950's meeting the Flash of the 1930's. It's not really that difficult, but a grounded understanding of the influences on art styles is key to following it. It's very easy to confuse the Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon serials of the 1930's and 40's and call them 'Silver Age', but it's what they spawned with the classic silver jumpsuits and 'ray guns' that creates a paradigm that's measured by the culture around it. Anyways, I hope that at least demonstrates that said clear vision can be achieved with a little stepping back to a more objective viewing. S. |
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To those hating on the current spandex/tights
I guess im the minority here but I like the current tights we have just fine. Yeah they don't look good plain or with any ol costume set like some of the newer pieces can do but thats what I like about it. Takes a little more creativity to look good and when you get a good costume going the current tights can look just fine. Some of the best costumes ive seen in game utilize tights heavily.
I do agree however we could use some things like a real mask and not the glued on ones or a sash. Im also a big fan of the costume sets that have come out recently and am in no rush to get golden/silver age costume pieces but it would be nice eventually.
As far as the bigger picture, there's two things I have always consider: Sentiment expressed and actual numbers.
Sentiment is easy. I can read a thread and understand the general gist of what's being said and pull out the finer points of what's actually being requested. That simply requires time invested in reading and knowing and understanding the poster.
Numbers are a bit trickier. We report actual number, but we also have to extrapolate from that how representative of the Community those numbers are. This is accomplished in part by knowing your players and how they've interacted not only with you, but also with each other in previous posts.
Here's an example of a thread breakdown we did (by the numbers only...leaving out the qualitative remarks also discounting off topic posts) about the Post Apoc thread:
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Numbers allow us to put things in perspective. How many people are actually posting in the thread? How many people are making up the majority of the conversation? How many people are positive? Neutral? Negative?
Anytime there's an post which is a hot topic for the Community, we usually do a breakdown of this and pass it along to the interested parties along with our evaluation of what the numbers mean. The Community team remains impartial in our analysis, as doing otherwise would skew the numbers one way or another. I imagine that I will request a similar breakdown for this thread, just as I did for the original discussion many months ago.
I get it. I understand that you're passionate about it. The arguments I, and the rest of the OCR team, makes advocating your causes to the development and business team are just a passionate. Just remember that our current development schedule is in no way a reflection that we don't appreciate your enthusiastic requests and that in all likelihood, we agree with it.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.