Freedom Player Summit-Post Apocalyptic WIP
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2012-07-24 16:10 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Hmmm...This probably isn't my favorite set (never been a fan of the "grungy" look), but it's nice. I can see why people would want this type of clothing, I'll probably end up purchasing it anyway. I'm sure I'll be able to incorporate some of the pieces into my costumes. 
Can we get a second hockey mask more realistic-like with straps that go over the top middle of the head and around each side and connect in the back? The mask with no straps in your current pics is great.......for head details, hairstyles, and the head set to 'full masks' (so it can look like 1 whole mask instead of a hockey mask placed over another mask and no straps to clip through certain details and hairstyles) is great and all, but I want to have a hockey mask with the head set to combed back or bald and not have a mask look like it's just glued onto the face.
A strap over the top of the head would be a great option to make that nail mohawk look more realistic and part of the mask rather than being, well, nailed into your head. 
DISCLAIMER: This post is not meant as a personal attack, merely expressing a difference of opinion. Therefore I have removed names to protect the innocent as well as the guilty.
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No, we voted for a Post-Apocalyptic set. Casey Jones is not, to my knowledge, part of such a setting.| So...the fans voted for Casey Jones? |
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| This. What part of a chainsaw-wielding maniac or hockey-stick-swinging pothead screams superhero? |
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So...again I say: City of Casey Jones *and* Jason Voorhees. Wouldn't want the poor widdle willains to feel left out, would we? |
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*clears throat* Ahem. I have villain characters. Have since CoV launch, thank you very much. The Arachnos-trained assassin, the unwitting demon summoner taken over by her charge, etc. etc. I sympathize with the villain lobby, certainly. |
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Will some people be able to "conceptualize" a fugly, dirty hockey mask and chainsaw into a kitty-saving hero? Absolutely. Thus is the power of this community and the imagination of superpowered fans. However, will the vast majority of everyone else make Jason Voorhees and Casey Jones? Yes. Overwhelmingly yes. |
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| Maybe I'm having a crisis of inspiration because of my recent glut of well-conceived magical/technologic/science-based character creation and my creative juices are momentarily tapped |
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Thanks for saying what I was GOING to say, but in a shorter format.|
Originally Posted by Horusaurus
You know, just because every costume set isn't your cup of tea doesn't mean you need to hate on it and say it's rubbish. I thought the animal pack was rubbish, I just avoided the thread and never bought the pack. Easy enough. People want this. I want this. You're just coming in to be antagonistic as far as I can tell. You've yet to say anything constructive other than "ugh, I hate this set" or "this doesn't go with any x concept!"
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Just to add to this, and to Elf Snipers thoughts-
It takes the kind of people I'd rather not associate with (aka the close-minded kind) to come into a thread that is about something they have made VERY CLEAR they don't like and endlessly argue about how they are right about this pack being wrong, or how this pack is a slap in the face from the devs, or - HEY - let's leave feedback that has little to nothing to do with this flavor of Post Apoc'. (Clean items? REALLY? <facepalm>)
I don't post much on the forums, or leave as much feedback for betas anymore, because I hate swimming through the seas of people endlessly passing the same opinions, over and over again, on other people's opinions.
Before I get pointed at as a hypocrite, unlike them I'm not trying to be right - I'm asking that if people don't like something in this thread or any other, try to leave a short version of "I don't like this and here's why" - and then LEAVE. (Btw, that second part - leave reasons why you don't like something - is REALLY important and it's not being done.)
In the end, that's what the people who are liking this pack are doing - so it's only fair that the people who don't like it do the same.
Even against certain death, it matters not how or if we fight, only that we do.
Most amusing complement I've ever been paid on an outfit, from @Ukase regarding my Blue Eyed She-Devil Anson Maddocs "Fallen Angel" homage:
"She gives my ex-wife a run for the money."
"She gives my ex-wife a run for the money."
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You do understand the idea that it's pretty much impossible for the Devs to totally please every player with every new release right?|
Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
Maybe I'm having a crisis of inspiration because of my recent glut of well-conceived magical/technologic/science-based character creation and my creative juices are momentarily tapped, but I stand by these costume themes as not the best use of Dink's significantly amazing design abilities.
"Well, Timmy, you can have any super power you want! You can fly, set people on fire, move stuff with your mind! What do you want to do?" "I wanna crawl through a dumpster and hit things with a golf club!" ...works better if it were released during the Halloween event. This is a "Zombie Invasion Survival" set, if anything. |
I get that you're apparently disappointed by this latest costume set from Dink, but for every person like you who doesn't like this offering there's probably another person out there who's loving it and/or been waiting years for it. Just be happy that we are still getting new things in general and I wish you better luck next time. There's no real point in "complaining" that this particular set isn't your cup of tea. *shrugs*
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I agree that "one of the great joys of this game has been the tremendous flexibility offered in customization with the costumes." This is why I find it strange you would arbitrarily limit yourself sight-unseen.|
Originally Posted by Antarcticaa
As a female player with female characters I have to say this entire costume pack leaves me cold. One of the great joys of this game has been the tremendous flexibility offered in customization with the costumes. The last pack was awesome but I see little to entice me on this one. I know the female version is coming out but if they're based on what I've seen so far I think this will be one pack that I won't add to the collection.
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I have created many costumes over the years that use 1 or 2 parts from one set, 1 or 2 parts from another set and so on. Oftentimes I find new uses for older items that I never envisioned before. So while (like you) I don't see any pure 100% "post-apocalyptic" outfits in my future I fully expect to incomporate some -parts- of this new set into other costumes that'll probably have little to do with being directly post-apocalyptic.
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I don't mind when a pack comes along that I'm not interested in. It just means I can save my points for a new powerset or the next costume pack (or shiny) that comes along that I really want.
There was a time when it would be forever before we'd see new costume items let alone entire sets and themes. With Freedom our options are overflowing. Personally I'm thankful for the sets I really want and for those I have no interest in. We could be getting the alternative: nothing.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Man, I have just really pissed a lot of people off, and I couldn't be less concerned about it.
I've stated the reasons I don't like the set. *I* don't like it. I thought this was a "discussion" forum where we could express our opinions and discuss. Yes, I was a little snarky. Yes, I was a little "dismissive" of "all" the people who play villains.
For that I honestly, sincerely apologize. I'm not that type of person, usually. I LOVE getting new content of any kind, because it proves the Paragon team is still investing in the game. This specific thing, which is already going to happen and my expressing my dislike will do nothing to change it, is irrelevant. Zwil and his team take note of how many posts are made, and what the general opinion of things are, so I do feel it's important to pop in and express my opinion of things one way or the other.
If you're happy with hockey masks and chainsaws, go nuts! I'm glad you've gotten what you've asked for and wish you all the best in your future Mad Max-ian endeavors.
I, personally, am not. *shrug* Like you've all (so splendiferously) said OVER AND OVER again, can't please everybody all the time.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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A few points:|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
We will NOT get clean versions of the Post-Apocalyptic pack parts in the Post-Apocalyptic pack because they would NOT fit into the theme of Post-Apocalyptic. The idea behind all the costume packs is to enable the players to make more characters in that vein. If you start to add stuff that is not in that theme you loose focus on what you were trying to accomplish in the first place. The packs must be limited in some fashion.
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1. This seems to fly in the face of Zwill saying he'll bring this up, so at least one person agrees with the idea.
2. You're completely missing the point of adding more costume pieces and the costume editor in general. A costume pieces is most valuable when it can be used for themes other than what it was designed as, and pieces which cannot be adapted are inherently less useful.
3. There's nothing about a post-apocalypting theme that says everything has to be dirty. Even in the Fallout universe, water still exists and chrome steel was never destroyed.
4. What do you care if I get a piece I want that you won't use if it's not a lot of work to create it?
5. A theme can only ever be used as an argument for the inclusion of a costume item and never against the inclusion of it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
Yes, I was a little snarky. Yes, I was a little "dismissive" of "all" the people who play villains.
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Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
Man, I have just really pissed a lot of people off, and I couldn't be less concerned about it.
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And you weren't "a little" dismissive of villains and non-four-colour heroes, you were downright insulting to the very idea of their existence. Preferences are one thing, and no-one can hold you to task for what you like or dislike, but to go around telling people their concepts are wrong and worthless and don't belong in the game is not nice, especially when you cap it with the old standby of arguments that is "I don't take this seriously and I don't care about your feelings," as the spawn of the "it's just game" genre.
The truth of the matter is that if you want people to respect your opinion and your preferences and discuss that in a civil, friendly manner, you need to do the same in return and not go on a campaign to prove why certain heroes shouldn't be heroes and how people who play villains are wrong. Give courtesy and you shall receive courtesy.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Except the dev making the set specifically said that they would be dirty and there would be no clean versions of the items in the first post of this thread.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
A point:
3. There's nothing about a post-apocalypting theme that says everything has to be dirty. Even in the Fallout universe, water still exists and chrome steel was never destroyed. |
[Not my opinion one way or the other, just pointing out that Dink made it clear in the first post.]
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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Did you miss the apology bit? No, I'm not bothered that I upset people, but I realize I upset people, and I apologize for that. As I've said in other threads (and boy, that went over well) I don't really get the "I only play villains" mindset. I may have sounded dismissive, and I didn't phrase things appropriately, but that doesn't take away anything from those people. It's like NASCAR, or professional wrestling, or opera. I don't understand why people like these things, I don't like them personally, but that doesn't mean the people who do like them are inherently wrong or bad, or that I believe that in any way. I apologize for making it sound that way.|
Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
For that I honestly, sincerely apologize. I'm not that type of person, usually. I LOVE getting new content of any kind, because it proves the Paragon team is still investing in the game. This specific thing, which is already going to happen and my expressing my dislike will do nothing to change it, is irrelevant. Zwil and his team take note of how many posts are made, and what the general opinion of things are, so I do feel it's important to pop in and express my opinion of things one way or the other.
If you're happy with hockey masks and chainsaws, go nuts! I'm glad you've gotten what you've asked for and wish you all the best in your future Mad Max-ian endeavors. I, personally, am not. *shrug* Like you've all (so splendiferously) said OVER AND OVER again, can't please everybody all the time. |
Again, reiterating for strength; play how you want. Play what you want. Have fun. Complain about whatever it is you feel you need to complain about. I don't like the Post-Apoc set, or any of its pieces, because it doesn't fall within my personal range of what this game is about. Ignoring comic book superheroes, I feel, is contrary to the basis of this entire game. I just personally need to be better informed and more appropriately express my opinions of things during the times where those opinions can be used to perhaps change things. After something is decided is too late, and I realize that.
Thank you all for pointing out the holes in my logic, my hyperbole, my hypocrisy and my lack of empathy for others' feelings. I will certainly keep that in mind in the future.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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For what it's worth you didn't really piss me off - I never personally suggested that we specifically get a "Post Apocalyptic" costume set in any shape or form. I probably could have lived happily without it myself. *shrugs*|
Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
Man, I have just really pissed a lot of people off, and I couldn't be less concerned about it.
I've stated the reasons I don't like the set. *I* don't like it. I thought this was a "discussion" forum where we could express our opinions and discuss. Yes, I was a little snarky. Yes, I was a little "dismissive" of "all" the people who play villains. For that I honestly, sincerely apologize. I'm not that type of person, usually. I LOVE getting new content of any kind, because it proves the Paragon team is still investing in the game. This specific thing, which is already going to happen and my expressing my dislike will do nothing to change it, is irrelevant. Zwil and his team take note of how many posts are made, and what the general opinion of things are, so I do feel it's important to pop in and express my opinion of things one way or the other. If you're happy with hockey masks and chainsaws, go nuts! I'm glad you've gotten what you've asked for and wish you all the best in your future Mad Max-ian endeavors. I, personally, am not. *shrug* Like you've all (so splendiferously) said OVER AND OVER again, can't please everybody all the time. |
I suppose I just thought it was interesting that you were so willing to categorically dismiss this set before we've even seen it fully finished. I know even if the complete set doesn't prove helpful to me the CoH:Freedom system will let me cherry-pick any single items from it that may prove useful.
Obviously no one's going to force you to like or buy anything you don't want to. Just realize that unless the feedback on a particular set is close to 100% postitive or negative the Devs are not likely going to be strongly persuaded either way when considering future sets. As long as it's technically within their ability to provide it and they think they'll make some money from it they'll do it. My guess is that Post Apocalyptic set simply fell within the "easy enough to do and enough people have asked for it" range to make it be Dink's current project.
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I think the problem, AG, is that most people's brains do not work in such a way that the above is not a contradictory statement.
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Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
No, I'm not bothered that I upset people, but I realize I upset people, and I apologize for that.
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*chuckle* Okay, well, let me try and explain:
I'm not crying in a corner, or having a crisis of conscience because I upset people. It's kind of like bumping into someone in a crowd; whether you intended to or not, you apologize because it's the right thing to do.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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The problem is, Aurora, you weren't just dismissing "only plays villain", you were dismissing "plays villain at all" and discounting them as an important part of the community. We don't have a problem with you not playing villains, but we do have a problem with you acting like we don't deserve a fair amount of representation, simply because our play preferences do not line up with yours.
Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
I play villains. I have villains. Not nearly as many as I do heroes, but I play villains. I think you've misunderstood me.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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Which doesn't mean anything and is even worse, in fact, if you don't do it for the right reasons and don't actually mean it.
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Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
*chuckle* Okay, well, let me try and explain:
I'm not crying in a corner, or having a crisis of conscience because I upset people. It's kind of like bumping into someone in a crowd; whether you intended to or not, you apologize because it's the right thing to do. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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That's where I am, and the problem I have with an apology phrased like this is it sounds insincere. "I apologise" has the connotation of "I'm sorry" in it, and when you specifically and deliberately state that "but I'm not sorry," you're delivering only the courtesy of an apology without the substance of it. Hence why it comes off as less powerful than it may have been intended.|
Originally Posted by BViking
I think the problem, AG, is that most people's brains do not work in such a way that the above is not a contradictory statement.
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Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
I'm not crying in a corner, or having a crisis of conscience because I upset people. It's kind of like bumping into someone in a crowd; whether you intended to or not, you apologize because it's the right thing to do.
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Basically, a half-and-half apology is actually worse than no apology at all, because whether you intended it or not, it comes off like mockery. I get what you're trying to do and I do appreciate it, but I'm really not convinced the same won't happen next time "This is a comic book game!" comes up. And it will, and I and others who aren't big comic book fans will make the exact same arguments. Feelings aren't necessarily hurt, but what's most important is whether we can work together in the future.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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[Post redacted to end bickering.]
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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Duff Killigan homage ahoy!
"I saw my advantage and took it. That's what heroes do." - Homer Simpson.
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Good points. I'm looking at though strictly from my own female player/female toons point-of-view and find the set wanting. Great costume for some, still not my cup of tea for me or mine. To make a marketing decision though on this based on input primarily from the pumit does leave me shaking my head. Out of the entire player base, seriously, how many of us can go to something like that, given our work and life constraints. I'm glad Z and the team is willing to listen to those that want cleaner versions of this set. Personally I still want more possibilities for female characters, especially with regards to hair and belts. Maybe there will be some awesome hairstyles for women in this pack. Here's hoping.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
A few points:
1. This seems to fly in the face of Zwill saying he'll bring this up, so at least one person agrees with the idea. 2. You're completely missing the point of adding more costume pieces and the costume editor in general. A costume pieces is most valuable when it can be used for themes other than what it was designed as, and pieces which cannot be adapted are inherently less useful. 3. There's nothing about a post-apocalypting theme that says everything has to be dirty. Even in the Fallout universe, water still exists and chrome steel was never destroyed. 4. What do you care if I get a piece I want that you won't use if it's not a lot of work to create it? 5. A theme can only ever be used as an argument for the inclusion of a costume item and never against the inclusion of it. |
@Dink: Thank you for all your hard work. The pieces look great so far and I look forward to seeing the rest. Thank you, also, for taking time out of your busy schedule to show us what you're working on and scan other suggestion threads for ideas.
"If I fail, they write me off as another statistic. If I succeed, they pay me a million bucks to fly out to Hollywood and fart." --- George A. Romero
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I'm going to stay out of the fight for clean versions of this set, but I'm just happy to have ANY dirty clothes in the costume creator AT ALL. Even the torn/shredded costume bits look like they just came out of Icon looking like that.
I may not use the Hockey Mask, or the new mohawk, but I can definitely see making a down-on-his-luck Hero, who can't catch a break.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Dink, you had me at chainsaw!
Hope you can work that magic, and shrink it down for others - either way you just sold this bundle for me. <grin>
~Raven
"She gives my ex-wife a run for the money."