Convert all IO sets to attuned
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-07-20 08:54 in Suggestions and Ideas
I agree! The real question is how much time would something like this take to implement, and what would it break in the process?
Before Attuned enhancements existed, I was a proponent of getting rid of IO levels. It seems like an even better idea now.
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Farewell is like the end
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And there you'll always be
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I don't know, I rather like being able to wander over to the market and save a few million INF at times by buying "off level" (33/34/36/37 instead of 35, for instance) enhancements or recipes.
I asked for this back when Freedom was new and basically got shot down so I'm not holding out any hope for it now. Still it would be nice.
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Well if the Overwhelming Force IO is any indication you'd still be able to do that. Based on the market it seems that Attuned IOs do have a level based on the level of the character that received them. This is hidden from the user and doesn't actually affect anything but the get separate listings in the market based on this level. The "quick fix" for changing IOs to Attuned IOs would probably be to do something similar and just change all the IOs so that they have hidden levels.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I don't know, I rather like being able to wander over to the market and save a few million INF at times by buying "off level" (33/34/36/37 instead of 35, for instance) enhancements or recipes.
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I'm philosophically opposed to anything that removes options from my favorite non-combat game system.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
See subject. Having up to 40 different versions of an IO is just silly and makes things more complicated than they have to be.
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while it would be undeniably convenient for buyers, it would stink for suppliers & have the effect of eroding market complexity, and thus interest.
/unsigned
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Nope, that's a result of the level bug with OF (being given a minimum level by the rewards window based on the level of the claimer (note the minimum level thing has been fixed)).|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Well if the Overwhelming Force IO is any indication you'd still be able to do that. Based on the market it seems that Attuned IOs do have a level based on the level of the character that received them. This is hidden from the user and doesn't actually affect anything but the get separate listings in the market based on this level. The "quick fix" for changing IOs to Attuned IOs would probably be to do something similar and just change all the IOs so that they have hidden levels.
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Archetype Enhancements are attuned and are listed as one item in the market. That's how attuned enhancements are supposed to work. OF is still bugged.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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You can't use enhancement boosters with attuned IOs!!!!! Unless they would allow enhancement boosters with attuned IOs I don't like this idea! The +5 iOS are better than attuned ones IMO
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Something for ppl to use
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You're missing my point. The issue with OF shows that Attuned IOs clearly DO have an associated level it's just that for the ATIOs they are all getting awarded as the same level so they show up as one item int he market.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Nope, that's a result of the level bug with OF (being given a minimum level by the rewards window based on the level of the claimer (note the minimum level thing has been fixed)).
Archetype Enhancements are attuned and are listed as one item in the market. That's how attuned enhancements are supposed to work. OF is still bugged. |
Now ask yourself this, if the devs were to switch all existing set IOs to Attuned IOs which would be an easier fix:
1. Change all Set IO items to Attuned IOs while retaining the same "level" (and thus keeping the same item ID or whatever they use internally to track item types)?
2. Convert all Set IOs to a new Attuned IO item?
Admittedly standard code rant applies here but from what I've seen I suspect option one would be a lot easier to implement.
I would love to see this. Not just because it makes the mark less of a tedious slog, but also because it lets me feel like my characters come into their prime sooner. In the current game, I buy my last set of SOs at 27 and then start converting them to IOs as I level (to the point where, by the time I would replace the SOs at 32, I'm using nothing but IOs). However, that's started making the 20s pretty brutal on some of my characters. I have one who I broke down and got a bunch of store bought Attuneds so I wouldn't have to wait, and what a difference it makes!
The question becomes can they limit the level range of said attunement? Since there are no sets that go from 1 to 50.
I'd be all for this though, it would make Set IOs a ton more usable, and make drops much more valuable before 50, since most of the time, no one buys an IO that isn't max level.
Do it with Generic IOs too for that matter.
attuned enhances could only be limited by a min lvl of use and max for any attuned is 50
as mentioned if you did convert all IOs to attuned then we would still have the same problem as the overwhelming force enhances (which still drop at the same lvl of the toon you get, but have a min lvl of 10 instead of -3 of your characters lvl)
If not for IOs, then please god make SOs attuned. And, while we're at it, get rid of TO and DO enhancements. Serious question, how many people actually use those things anymore?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I do. I usually mail a million or so influence when I make a brand new character for just that reason. Yes, I realize that it's way more than I actually need to afford to do this, but it's usually enough to make influence needs for the new character non-existent for the entire run of the character, even before I use the market.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
If not for IOs, then please god make SOs attuned. And, while we're at it, get rid of TO and DO enhancements. Serious question, how many people actually use those things anymore?
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EDIT: That said, I probably wouldn't complain too much about removing Training and Dual Origin Enhancements, as long as there was something to replace them. And I mean something available in the stores or as drops, without having to gather supplies and craft them. I would not want to have to level to twenty two without having ANYTHING in my powers.
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A: You crash into another one.
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That's assuming that the bug wasn't the associated level to begin with instead of 'revealing' it.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
You're missing my point. The issue with OF shows that Attuned IOs clearly DO have an associated level it's just that for the ATIOs they are all getting awarded as the same level so they show up as one item int he market.
Now ask yourself this, if the devs were to switch all existing set IOs to Attuned IOs which would be an easier fix: 1. Change all Set IO items to Attuned IOs while retaining the same "level" (and thus keeping the same item ID or whatever they use internally to track item types)? 2. Convert all Set IOs to a new Attuned IO item? Admittedly standard code rant applies here but from what I've seen I suspect option one would be a lot easier to implement. |
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I suspect the bug was actually with the fact that the associated levels varied. I have a hard time imagining a situation where an item that was not supposed to be given a level at all was accidentally given one (I'm not going to say that it was impossible, but I find it unlikely).|
Originally Posted by Agent White
That's assuming that the bug wasn't the associated level to begin with instead of 'revealing' it.
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The most likely situation I see from a code point of view is that for some reason buried in the original design of the enhancement system all enhancements have to have a level associated with them. So while ATEs were awarded with a fixed level the way the OF enhancements were awarded accidentally set that level to the same level as the character rather than a fixed level.
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Suggestion; Remove TO and DO level enhancements, rename SOs as simply 'Training Enhancements'. Given the Dev 'lore' about trainers helping you unlock potential, yada yada, the new TOs would represent what you can do without dipping into more exotic stuff, i.e. IOs and ATOs|
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
EDIT: That said, I probably wouldn't complain too much about removing Training and Dual Origin Enhancements, as long as there was something to replace them. And I mean something available in the stores or as drops, without having to gather supplies and craft them. I would not want to have to level to twenty two without having ANYTHING in my powers. |
Give the new TOs the current SO level numbers, even make 'em scale with level if they want, and make them attuned. Bam. Slotting just because half the chore it currently is. Everyone wins?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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.... and one inf sink gone. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Give the new TOs the current SO level numbers, even make 'em scale with level if they want, and make them attuned. Bam. Slotting just because half the chore it currently is. Everyone wins?
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I don't know, given we don't have gear in this game (no, IOs are not "gear" that wears out/needs replacing,) regular enhancements are really the only thing that still can serve that purpose universally.
Not to mention "scale with level" - how's that going to work on the lower levels, and at what point do they need to be revisited, either as enhancements or as lower level enemy groups?
If you want an "Update all currently sloted enhancements to max usable level" (with cost showing) button... even per power, it'd do the same thing and maintain its inf-sink-ness. Otherwise even people playing on SOs are going to just be deleting the majority of them instead of using them (and there'd be no reason to *sell* them, and certainly no reason to put them cheaply on the market) fairly early in the game.
Honestly, at what point does it just turn into this? And will people just complain until it's this?
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Considering you can find recipes and salvage that can sell for millions, the idea that spending maybe 5-6 million total to slot your character from 1-50 as an inf sink is pretty silly. It's such a slight inf sink it might as well not even be there, and really only affects super-new players.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
.... and one inf sink gone.
I don't know, given we don't have gear in this game (no, IOs are not "gear" that wears out/needs replacing,) regular enhancements are really the only thing that still can serve that purpose universally. Not to mention "scale with level" - how's that going to work on the lower levels, and at what point do they need to be revisited, either as enhancements or as lower level enemy groups? If you want an "Update all currently sloted enhancements to max usable level" (with cost showing) button... even per power, it'd do the same thing and maintain its inf-sink-ness. Otherwise even people playing on SOs are going to just be deleting the majority of them instead of using them (and there'd be no reason to *sell* them, and certainly no reason to put them cheaply on the market) fairly early in the game. Honestly, at what point does it just turn into this? And will people just complain until it's this? |
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So it shouldn't exist at all?|
Originally Posted by eth_Nargy
Considering you can find recipes and salvage that can sell for millions, the idea that spending maybe 5-6 million total to slot your character from 1-50 as an inf sink is pretty silly. It's such a slight inf sink it might as well not even be there, and really only affects super-new players.
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And what of those Free and lower tier Premium who ... *don't get* recipes and salvage, period, as they have no access to inventions? Or the market?
Regardless, I don't agree with the idea. If nothing else, having to go back and refresh SOs makes you take another look at your build as a whole (instead of one power or 2-3 slots at a time) and consider if something's working or not.
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I agree its an inadequate inf sink, but 1: it's pretty much the only one we've got and 2: who, exactly, spends 5-6 million per slot "from 1-50"? I burn more than that in market fees just to slot one purple. I dropped a few hundred K per slot kitting out a level 17 alt with crafted generics the other night.|
Originally Posted by eth_Nargy
Considering you can find recipes and salvage that can sell for millions, the idea that spending maybe 5-6 million total to slot your character from 1-50 as an inf sink is pretty silly. It's such a slight inf sink it might as well not even be there, and really only affects super-new players.
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It isn't the inf sink I'd prefer, but it's the one we've got and it does a better job than you're giving it credit for.
/edit
as if on cue, just logged in on a guy who sold a crafted Ragnarok: Damage.
Inf burned by the market: 15,892,561
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My City Was Gone
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He's talking about the inf sink that is SOs, not the inf sink that is the market.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I agree its an inadequate inf sink, but 1: it's pretty much the only one we've got and 2: who, exactly, spends 5-6 million per slot "from 1-50"? I burn more than that in market fees just to slot one purple. I dropped a few hundred K per slot kitting out a level 17 alt with crafted generics the other night.
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ah, my bad- this is what happens when you try and check the forums with a toddler on your lap.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
He's talking about the inf sink that is SOs, not the inf sink that is the market.
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I have been spending much more than 5-6 million to slot my lvl 50 blaster. Try more in the billions. I have funded this largely through selling rare recipes obtained through merit fishing.
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Originally Posted by eth_Nargy
Considering you can find recipes and salvage that can sell for millions, the idea that spending maybe 5-6 million total to slot your character from 1-50 as an inf sink is pretty silly. It's such a slight inf sink it might as well not even be there, and really only affects super-new players.
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If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
He's talking about the minor INF sink from buying SOs every 5 levels.
IOs could be attuned like their market version in that once you reach the minimum level, you can equip them and they'll level with you until they reach their internal max. Lower level IOs would still only drop at certain level ranges, maintaining their rarity. But there would have to be a number of changes for something like this to not devastate the market. Lower drop rates for both Recipes and Components below level 50 for one.
If TOs, DOs, and SOs were all combined into one type, they couldn't be as strong at level 5 as they are at level 30. That would either cause players to be too powerful against enemies that aren't strong enough, or for every lower level villain to be looked at and buffed accordingly. As for the INF sink associated with it, that would require no more than rebalancing the amount of INF awarded for a defeated opponent (at most, from 1-47) and changing the prices of the enhancements to reflect the smaller number that would be purchased. This has been done before.
And remember that players would still have to buy enhancements every few levels to fill newly awarded slots. They just wouldn't have to refill all the slots they have (at the time) 6-10 times.
See subject. Having up to 40 different versions of an IO is just silly and makes things more complicated than they have to be.
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