Crashless Nukes WOOOOOTTT!!!
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-07-11 11:33 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Rain of Arrows and Archery's only fear should be the possibility of a reduction in its power (likely by increasing its recharge). It is so strong, even with the proposed buff, it still far surpasses the other tier 9s. Rain of Arrows could have its recharge changed to 90 seconds or 2 minutes and Archery would still be competitive with the other sets (rather than clearly better than most).
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Originally Posted by MarvelZombie
I kinda wonder the same thing about Archery and Rain of Arrows. The strength of the power (and the set, really, let's be honest) is it's crashless nuke that is up every spawn or so. With this nukeless normalization, will RoA lose this distinction?
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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The trick here is not to tug everything else down to that level. Sets like AR and Archery need buffs, instead. Especially given, indeed, lol-lethal. Every set (in every AT, in my opinion) should be at 'Awesome' level, the level where people want to pick any set because they are ALL cool. Not 'Oh, I'll skip that, it looks neat but does pancake in actual gameplay...'
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Originally Posted by MarvelZombie
I kinda wonder the same thing about Archery and Rain of Arrows. The strength of the power (and the set, really, let's be honest) is it's crashless nuke that is up every spawn or so. With this nukeless normalization, will RoA lose this distinction?
I'm all for buffing the T9s and blasters in general, but I'd hate to see Archery plummet even further (with its lol-lethal damage and weak secondary effect) down the desirability chain as an unintended result of this. Suppose I could at least hope RoA gets a damage buff outta this.... |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Agree Techbot Alpha. All sets should rock.
I'm also hoping that old rules like "psionics hardly resisted" and "smashing/lethal" most resisted are reviewed too.
It's really not fair to certain powers at all.
Muchlike how I always hated tankers....because you have gaping holes in your armor and especially in the old days, if you went up against something that you didn't have resistance too, you might as well let the scrapper with the correct resistances/defenses tank.
I remember how no one ever wanted a fire tanker on the.....erm.....I forget the task force with the Crystalline giant. I think Huntsman gives the TF in Eden. This was back when people would herd the map into a creater to clear the area and then let a few blasters blow up their T9 nuke.
Level 53: Arrows/Devices/Munitions Blaster
....and hopeless Science-Natzi.
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My wife and I used to play CoH every night together, but she stopped some time back, owing to various other commitments. She recently started playing again and one of the first things she asked me was why they made the game so easy. She was lamenting the days where we had to use strategy to win battles. I'm not sure how long she will stick around now, because she doesn't feel challenged.
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Ok, so... lemme get this straight:
when the missus and I currently play my ill/kin controller and her fire/fire blaster, we can usually: - have something from illusion grab the alpha strike. - run into to the middle of a +4/x8 mob - hit fulcrum shift - hit fireball, fire sword circle. - watch almost everyone die - pick off stragglers - repeat. now we can add the nuke to that mix? ... is there any word on increasing the difficulty slider? |
Est sularis oth Mithas
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play levels 4-24 and you will be challenged if you set the difficulty up|
Originally Posted by Arnabas
My wife and I used to play CoH every night together, but she stopped some time back, owing to various other commitments. She recently started playing again and one of the first things she asked me was why they made the game so easy. She was lamenting the days where we had to use strategy to win battles. I'm not sure how long she will stick around now, because she doesn't feel challenged.
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the end game is a joke, but the lower levels are still challenging
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I hope you'll forgive me for a little flippant nitpickery here; I understand that you're making a point about collective difficulty not difficulty on a per-AT basis, and it isn't my intention to distort your argument.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Ok, so... lemme get this straight:
when the missus and I currently play my ill/kin controller and her fire/fire blaster, we can usually: - have something from illusion grab the alpha strike. - run into to the middle of a +4/x8 mob - hit fulcrum shift - hit fireball, fire sword circle. - watch almost everyone die - pick off stragglers - repeat. now we can add the nuke to that mix? ... is there any word on increasing the difficulty slider? |
That said, your wife's Blaster is not the reason you're having such an easy time. Swap out your Ill/Kin for another Blaster and you may just find that you need the (soon-to-be) improved nukes just to make a credible attempt at matching the above-described pace. You surely won't be as safe, regardless.
In other words, you could make the same objection -- vis-a-vis collective difficulty level -- about just about any buff any AT receives, but Blasters definitely deserve a significant upgrade. Your Ill/Kin's very existence is actually a pretty good argument as to why Blasters deserve an upgrade.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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That's true. The lower level (and non-twinked) game and the high-end game are totally different beasts. Still, no matter the level range, there's challenge out there if you want to find it.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
play levels 4-24 and you will be challenged if you set the difficulty up
the end game is a joke, but the lower levels are still challenging |
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Ok, so... lemme get this straight:
when the missus and I currently play my ill/kin controller and her fire/fire blaster, we can usually: - have something from illusion grab the alpha strike. - run into to the middle of a +4/x8 mob - hit fulcrum shift - hit fireball, fire sword circle. - watch almost everyone die - pick off stragglers - repeat. now we can add the nuke to that mix? ... is there any word on increasing the difficulty slider? |
My blaster can handle max difficulty slider (+4/x8 is it? I never remember.) Archery/Dev with incarnate powers and purple IOed.
Granted, it's a mix of Rain of Arrows and Fire Judgement. Plus explosive arrow and the cone arrow power (forget it's name atm.)
Though, also some strategy for tricky things. I do die sometimes when things just go wrong (i'm looking at NPC pets that aggro or something weird happens.) However, sometimes when things go wrong, I can still pull out of it.
Eye of Magus and 2 Medium purples for when things really hit the fan, or I have an EB to take down. I made some demorecords while I ran the DA arc a few weeks ago....when I heard about the sniper changes and the +regen/+recovery.....and i'm against the regen/recovery.
I should post them for the fun of it....once i figure out how to do such O.o
Level 53: Arrows/Devices/Munitions Blaster
....and hopeless Science-Natzi.
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Agreed.
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Originally Posted by Obitus
I hope you'll forgive me for a little flippant nitpickery here; I understand that you're making a point about collective difficulty not difficulty on a per-AT basis, and it isn't my intention to distort your argument.
That said, your wife's Blaster is not the reason you're having such an easy time. Swap out your Ill/Kin for another Blaster and you may just find that you need the (soon-to-be) improved nukes just to make a credible attempt at matching the above-described pace. You surely won't be as safe, regardless. In other words, you could make the same objection -- vis-a-vis collective difficulty level -- about just about any buff any AT receives, but Blasters definitely deserve a significant upgrade. Your Ill/Kin's very existence is actually a pretty good argument as to why Blasters deserve an upgrade. |
I just wish for once they would not have treated Khelds like red headed step children and do their nukes along with everyone else's. Oh well SOS.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Kinda missing the point. You may consider RoA to be OP, but without RoA, Archery plummets from a top 3rd blaster set (maybe? experts may disagree) to a bottom of the barrel set, due primarily to it's lethal damage (most resisted in the game) and accuracy secondary effect (pretty much useless, these days, and totally useless in the IO high-level game). See Techbot's post below yours....he gets it.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Rain of Arrows and Archery's only fear should be the possibility of a reduction in its power (likely by increasing its recharge). It is so strong, even with the proposed buff, it still far surpasses the other tier 9s. Rain of Arrows could have its recharge changed to 90 seconds or 2 minutes and Archery would still be competitive with the other sets (rather than clearly better than most).
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I don't consider RoA OP, I do think it is extremely good. I never suggested it should be removed, but I do think it is possible the devs could consider increasing its recharge, but I doubt it and I would not ask for it.|
Originally Posted by MarvelZombie
You may consider RoA to be OP, but without RoA, Archery plummets from a top 3rd blaster set (maybe? experts may disagree) to a bottom of the barrel set, due primarily to it's lethal damage (most resisted in the game) and accuracy secondary effect (pretty much useless, these days, and totally useless in the IO high-level game). See Techbot's post below yours....he gets it.
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The lethal damage is a non-issue, IME. I do think Archery should have some more mitigation, especially now that its tier 3 no longer has a range advantage. I have long thought Fistful of Arrows should apply a to-hit debuff.
And I don't think Techbot gets it. I think he is as mistaken as you. Archery is a fabulous set from 1 to 50, I have played 2 of them and will likely make a third eventually. I have no fear that Energy blast is going to eclipse Archery and you shouldn't either. It is possible that Archery won't be as obviously and grossly better than Energy though, but I don't think that calls for buffs to Archery.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
When they tweak the PC powers do they also tweak the NPC factions? I seem to be getting more powerful with each passing issue. I have not noticed that for the mobs. Not saying it's not happening, just not noticing.
Something witty and profound
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I think NPCs are due a pass.|
Originally Posted by Fista
When they tweak the PC powers do they also tweak the NPC factions? I seem to be getting more powerful with each passing issue. I have not noticed that for the mobs. Not saying it's not happening, just not noticing.
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Mostly to, hopefully at least, fix stupid, frustrating stuff like the 30 secons Stun spam of Malta minions, KoA all-minion 'trop spam, and other things that are basically 'false challenge'.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I love Burnout...during Itrials I always end up giggling because Two Tar Patches stacked also with Ice Storm x 2 and Blizzard x 2 is a beautiful $#@%^*! sight!!!|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
*drools* you're going to make me respec my very first blaster again, aren't you?
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Now I can accomplish this pre Ageless!
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Have you played through Night Ward? Lots of new mechanics flying around and they can be sorta challenging.
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Originally Posted by Fista
When they tweak the PC powers do they also tweak the NPC factions? I seem to be getting more powerful with each passing issue. I have not noticed that for the mobs. Not saying it's not happening, just not noticing.
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This, and Praetoria|
Originally Posted by Agent White
Have you played through Night Ward? Lots of new mechanics flying around and they can be sorta challenging.
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The devs made Praetoria and made the game more challenging. The players immediately whined that they did not want it to be challenging.
The devs made Night Ward and made it more challenging. The players immediately whined that they did not want it to be challenging.
There are players who actually like a challenge and like Praetoria and Night Ward.
Then there are players who want it to be easy but with more rewards, so they say they want the difficulty increased, but they really just mean they want the rewards increased.
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I don't think the complaint is really that its challenging.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
This, and Praetoria
The devs made Praetoria and made the game more challenging. The players immediately whined that they did not want it to be challenging. The devs made Night Ward and made it more challenging. The players immediately whined that they did not want it to be challenging. There are players who actually like a challenge and like Praetoria and Night Ward. Then there are players who want it to be easy but with more rewards, so they say they want the difficulty increased, but they really just mean they want the rewards increased. |
Its that it is not CONSISTENT.
When I can have a reasonably-challenging encounter in 90% of the game at a certain difficulty level, then run into a part of the game that's dramatically different, it's annoying.
I'd much rather they do a global nerf to keep the whole game challenging than have inconsistently-applied design that just makes newer content more challenging.
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This. I don't find Praetoria too bad anymore, maybe I'm just used to it. Only a few groups/encounters in Night Ward are ridiculous too. Black Knights and their stacking -def/-res and the Arcana Animus which amount to fighting groups of kin/rad/SS mobs (again, -res/-def/-dam, etc). I enjoyed most of the missions in NW. For the really annoying ones I just took a full tray of purples and cheated.
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
I don't think the complaint is really that its challenging.
Its that it is not CONSISTENT. When I can have a reasonably-challenging encounter in 90% of the game at a certain difficulty level, then run into a part of the game that's dramatically different, it's annoying. |
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
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It is one of the reasons I still use AE when I am looking for challenging and more interesting mobs to fight. I just make them. Now if the devs would just get off their bums and add the most recent powersets faster all will be well. |
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
There are players who actually like a challenge and like Praetoria and Night Ward.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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it makes no sense to make the whole game more challenging when not everyone wants a greater challenge.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
I don't think the complaint is really that its challenging.
Its that it is not CONSISTENT. When I can have a reasonably-challenging encounter in 90% of the game at a certain difficulty level, then run into a part of the game that's dramatically different, it's annoying. I'd much rather they do a global nerf to keep the whole game challenging than have inconsistently-applied design that just makes newer content more challenging. |
it makes sense to have differentiated content - that way players can choose.
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No, it makes sense to have a difficulty slider... which the game provides.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
it makes no sense to make the whole game more challenging when not everyone wants a greater challenge.
it makes sense to have differentiated content - that way players can choose. |
With the difficulty slider, it makes no sense to make differentiated content.
Users that aren't specced out or haven't mastered the gameplay want to try new content and experience the newer stories too.
Another feather in the cap for Devices because of this change...
Being able to toe-bomb (OF enhanced) Trip Mines after dropping mez nukes (Sonic, Rad, Psy, Beam and possibly Blackstar); two or more with extended mez durations and strategic consecutive nuking (ala Burnout)
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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I'd also like to have a global nerf. Thing is, it'd have to A) not break the set it's in and B) not make the set irrelevant comparatively. We'd also have to buff a lot of sets to make them relevant again. |
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
I don't think the complaint is really that its challenging.
Its that it is not CONSISTENT. When I can have a reasonably-challenging encounter in 90% of the game at a certain difficulty level, then run into a part of the game that's dramatically different, it's annoying. I'd much rather they do a global nerf to keep the whole game challenging than have inconsistently-applied design that just makes newer content more challenging. |
There'd be a lot of homogenizing, all at once, on the back end of things so that expected performance for each set and each AT could be normalized. Then variety for each set could be implemented.
Most folk aren't fans of that kind of standardization, so I rarely bring it up and expect to be either ignored or shouted down.
I'm all for buffing the T9s and blasters in general, but I'd hate to see Archery plummet even further (with its lol-lethal damage and weak secondary effect) down the desirability chain as an unintended result of this. Suppose I could at least hope RoA gets a damage buff outta this....