Discussion - Issue 23 Where Shadows Lie -[LIVE]-July 10, 2012
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-07-10 14:16 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Lore pets no longer get the level shift? What, the 30-second Hard Way runs not WAI?
If anyone's surprised by this, I'll eat my hat.
Also, let's make some money!
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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Some may have figured it made up for the week or so that bringing any pets at all to the final fight meant a failed trial, thanks to the previous bug with the Lights. 
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Then may I suggest that the developers work on keeping the following active beyond the defeat of the player using them:|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Incarnate Trial – Magisterium
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- Ultimate Inspirations (lasts 3 minutes or much less because of defeat).
- Lore pets. Supposedly balanced by an extreme recharged, but either they die (by not being level shifted) or the player gets defeated and they are then without the power for 10-15 minutes.
Edit:
It is also extremely hard to find this thread by going to the News, Events & Announcement Discussion section given all the other stickied threads/patch notes.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Incarnate Trial Magisterium
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Maybe I missed it. But was the bug where it was awarding to a maximum of 16 players fixed yet?
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Hm. So, OK, it became fairly ridiculously easy after the initial fix to the Lights, but it seems kind of a wild swing in the other direction to make Lore immune to it. They're going to do very little against an AV that's +7, minimum. (Characters who are 50+3 summon 49+3 Lore pets, and Tyrant is 54+5.)
I am OK with it being harder than it was last week, but, I don't know, I would prefer a solution that didn't make Lore quite that pointless.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Cool. Thanks for the link.
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
You missed it. By two weeks.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Seems to be par for the course for the the development team to make gross adjustments without thinking through the consequences of the changes.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Hm. So, OK, it became fairly ridiculously easy after the initial fix to the Lights, but it seems kind of a wild swing in the other direction to make Lore immune to it. They're going to do very little against an AV that's +7, minimum. (Characters who are 50+3 summon 49+3 Lore pets, and Tyrant is 54+5.)
I am OK with it being harder than it was last week, but, I don't know, I would prefer a solution that didn't make Lore quite that pointless. |
Some leagues need shifted lore pets to overcome Tyrant's ridiculous regeneration rate.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
There goes my shot again at the very hard way badge :C
WHHHHHYYYY ZWILLL WHHHHYYYYY
Y U MAKE ME UPSET D:
VIG0S: 1356 badges in counting
Something for ppl to use
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Please note that there would be no level shifts for your pets anyway, as when you try for the Really Hard Way, there is no putting out any lights. |
Originally Posted by Blackleviathan
There goes my shot again at the very hard way badge :C
WHHHHHYYYY ZWILLL WHHHHYYYYY Y U MAKE ME UPSET D: |
As for what I think of the Magi changes, I think if you change the difficulty of something, you should also change the rewards.
1. This trial should give an automatic rare/very rare. No ifs, ands or buts.
Procedurally, it's not terribly challenging, but in practice, a lot of players will suffer because their league may not have all the pieces of this puzzle.
(Buffs, debuffs and damage)
I've tried forming for this trial countless times, and I'll get plenty of melee and one empath (to buff 23 other players!) or, 8 defenders, a bunch of doms and controllers, but no blasters, brutes or scrappers.
Yes, I could "try" to proceed with whoever chooses to join, but I think a good leader won't proceed unless he/she thinks they can win, or alternatively explain to the group, "we're missing x from the league, it will be tougher than usual."
Alternative to the auto rare/very rare table, I think there should be an astral for beating 250 idf, an astral for beating each of the three avs, and an astral for beating black swan in addition to the two emps for winning the trial.
Aside from unlocking hybrid, or pursuing badges, there seems to be very little reason to run this trial other than the joy of dodging lightning flow.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
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Well, you can't kill any Lights of the Well for that badge, therefore you (or your pets) couldn't get any level shifts in the first place. So no, it won't affect your shot for the "Very Hard Way" badge at all.
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Originally Posted by Blackleviathan
There goes my shot again at the very hard way badge :C
WHHHHHYYYY ZWILLL WHHHHYYYYY Y U MAKE ME UPSET D: |
Play my MA arcs!
Tracking Down Jack Ketch - ArcID #2701
Cat War! - ArcID #2788
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Of course, currently we have to bid on those in the Market sorting BY LEVEL -- unless I'm missing something, we can't just scroll down the long list of Overwhelming Forces and see the level on each icon, as we can for other IO's. |
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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Will those be getting level icons in the near future?
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04
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Oh derp I keep forgetting that you don't |
Originally Posted by Citizen_Razor
Well, you can't kill any Lights of the Well for that badge, therefore you (or your pets) couldn't get any level shifts in the first place. So no, it won't affect your shot for the "Very Hard Way" badge at all.
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My bad :/
VIG0S: 1356 badges in counting
Something for ppl to use
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Well, the bug fix (where the lighting will affect people in the air) could have an effect. Some people were using/abusing that bug so that they wouldn't need to scatter to avoid death every time he used the attack, and thus weren't losing dps in the same way a normal run would.|
Originally Posted by Citizen_Razor
Well, you can't kill any Lights of the Well for that badge, therefore you (or your pets) couldn't get any level shifts in the first place. So no, it won't affect your shot for the "Very Hard Way" badge at all.
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Though results of that trick could vary. Some power sets have powers that only work on the ground, and it kind of left pet users (including most Lore pets) in the dust, unless some crazy person had group fly. And even THEN pets tend to be stupid in group fly anyway. So the strategy could sometime do more hand than it was worth.
But, the bug is fixed now, so that's all in the past.
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Actually he is referring to the method a LOT of people used to make the Very HArd Way badge VERY easy. Fight Tyrant in the sky and the lightning bolts never hit you.
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Originally Posted by Citizen_Razor
Well, you can't kill any Lights of the Well for that badge, therefore you (or your pets) couldn't get any level shifts in the first place. So no, it won't affect your shot for the "Very Hard Way" badge at all.
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As others have said, it won't affect that badge. It will affect "The hard way" badge as people count on that DPS to actually combat the obscene regen rate he has between 40% and 15%. I can see a lot more failures with pickup groups because of this.|
Originally Posted by Blackleviathan
There goes my shot again at the very hard way badge :C
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Edit:
I wonder if the developers seen the effects of the flight bug then decided to punish everyone else for using lore pets.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Incorrect it does effect that badge. So many groups were getting that badge very easily by flying Tyrant in the air and avoiding the lightning spawns which meant higher league DPS. Of course it meant no bringing trap MM's along but I had seen people doing PUGs of this and successfully obtaining the badge.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
As others have said, it won't affect that badge. It will affect "The hard way" badge as people count on that DPS to actually combat the obscene regen rate he has between 40% and 15%. I can see a lot more failures with pickup groups because of this.
Edit: I wonder if the developers seen the effects of the flight bug then decided to punish everyone else for using lore pets. |
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Would give increased chance of R/VR.|
Originally Posted by Ukaserex
This trial should give an automatic rare/very rare. No ifs, ands or buts.
Procedurally, it's not terribly challenging, but in practice, a lot of players will suffer because their league may not have all the pieces of this puzzle. (Buffs, debuffs and damage) Alternative to the auto rare/very rare table, I think there should be an astral for beating 250 idf, an astral for beating each of the three avs, and an astral for beating black swan in addition to the two emps for winning the trial. Aside from unlocking hybrid, or pursuing badges, there seems to be very little reason to run this trial other than the joy of dodging lightning flow. |
Astral on 250. - Debateable since this gets farmed.
Astral on 3 AV defeat completion.
Astral on Black Swan (maybe).
Astral count is pretty low a trial that can easily fail at the last stage.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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Does it award any astrals currently?
As far as I know Magisterium only awards Astrals for badge condition completions.
The Lore pet change....I understand why they want to make the fight last longer, but I disagree with this change for two reasons.
1. I don't like the idea of making Lore pets close to useless in that fight.
2. If it's intended to "fix" The Hard Way badge I think the damage is already done, this is only punishing the people who, for whatever reason, don't have that badge yet.
A circle forms, everybody comes round
Just to hear the incredible sound
Of a genius smashing expectations
- Jonathan Coulton
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Also one for running open league, but yeah.
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Originally Posted by Mokalus
As far as I know Magisterium only awards Astrals for badge condition completions.
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I meant the lore pet nerf. If groups were getting the Really Hard Way badge with the exploit of the lightning, then that is even MORE ammunition for those that have said since beta that the trial favored some groups more than others. |
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Incorrect it does effect that badge. So many groups were getting that badge very easily by flying Tyrant in the air and avoiding the lightning spawns which meant higher league DPS. Of course it meant no bringing trap MM's along but I had seen people doing PUGs of this and successfully obtaining the badge.
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I know the badge groups on Triumph have been doing the trial with most, if not all, players on the ground. I also know that we've at times barely succeeded the trial with the lore pets buffed by the wells.
Again, this is another prime example of the developers overreacting. I also don't expect this change to be reversed. So the people that screamed that the trial was too easy and using the exploit will now get a harder trial while the players that just wanted to succeed without hand-picking groups will be up the creek.
Bravo devs, bravo.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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While right now it may be hard, in time it will get easier as we get more incarnate shifts and such.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I meant the lore pet nerf. If groups were getting the Really Hard Way badge with the exploit of the lightning, then that is even MORE ammunition for those that have said since beta that the trial favored some groups more than others.
I know the badge groups on Triumph have been doing the trial with most, if not all, players on the ground. I also know that we've at times barely succeeded the trial with the lore pets buffed by the wells. Again, this is another prime example of the developers overreacting. I also don't expect this change to be reversed. So the people that screamed that the trial was too easy and using the exploit will now get a harder trial while the players that just wanted to succeed without hand-picking groups will be up the creek. Bravo devs, bravo. |
Yeah, it's meant to be the most difficult trial.
and.. honestly. It's main purpose is the Advanced iXP. If you want better rewards, do a TPN or MoDD, lots of guaranteed goodies. The only people really missing out are badgers.
Summer Blockbuster Event
- Overwhelming Force's Knockdown proc now functions properly.
- Overwhelming Force enhancements can now be traded at Wentworth's and the Black Market.
- Overwhelming Force enhancements can now be linked in chat.
- Fixed a bug that could prevent attuned enhancements from being able to be slotted by characters of certain levels within the enhancements' intended level ranges. (Overwhelming Force enhancements earned by higher level characters were unusable by lower level characters until they reached the same level as the character who earned the enhancement.)
Incarnate Trial MagisteriumAndy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios