what in the game mechanically/content has gotten worse in the past 2 years?
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-06-25 13:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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All of this stuff drives me bonkers because it all seems so obviously broken. None of it is game-breaking, but it affects the presentation a ton. The ragdoll bug even goes past that and in some severe cases allows you to defeat enemies without retaliation because they're stuck in the wall or on a rail or doing the splits after being knocked back.|
Originally Posted by Creole Ned
Some things that come to mind from a technical standpoint:
- the aforementioned ragdoll physics. It seems to be a bit better currently but enemies still twitch and twirl in ways they never used to after being defeated. - NPC dialog that is spoken by an offscreen character. There are times where I've been unable to ascertain who is even speaking thanks to this: [CAPTION]: Hey there, $playername, you'll find that secret lock of Manticore's hair in his shrine room. And any new player that runs Death From Below or the Mathew Habashy starting arc will see [CAPTION] almost immediately and repeatedly. I can't believe QA hasn't reported the bug and don't understand why it hasn't been fixed yet. It may be small but it's right in your face, mission after mission and it diminishes the experience (unless every CAPTION is secretly Nemesis. I would accept this as a Nemesis plot). - jagged, low poly rocks in caves. This is an old bug that has been fixed before but it got bugged again. In any cave mission look at the rocks (exception: rocks that are specifically placed for a particular mission, like SSA 1.2) along the ground and you'll notice that they are all very low-poly -- because a lot of the polys that *should* be there aren't. Again, not a critical, game-affecting bug but it looks sloppy. And not so technical: - reducing the number of options when starting the game. You get one path or Death From Below and that's it. - the bog standard end game system of raids to get slightly better powers (effectively, gear) in order to do more raids to get more slightly better powers. I was hoping that CoH would do something different but the design philosophy has hewed extremely closely to the established EQ/WoW formula. - the new insta-spawns that materialize in front of you. CoH used to always hide this, unlike other MMOs. It helped immersion and made for a less annoying experience. This, along with tethering and phasing are examples of the game failing to innovate and instead simply following the lead of other games. |
I'm not sure if it's actually gotten worse in the past 2 years, but escort missions certainly haven't gotten any better. They're terrible. I have no desire to babysit an NPC simply because they get stuck around a corner or on a staircase or a rock or dozens of other things. It's also really maddening that the "fix" for escort NPCs for player stealth powers that was put in years ago to prevent people from exploiting escort missions has still not been addressed. It's just unnecessary and is a case where the devs' old and weird "risk vs reward" obsession resulted in many ham-fisted changes like this that punish people playing normally far more than it does those who were deliberately trying to game the system.
One other thing I think has gotten worse are the wild difficulty swings in a lot of the newer story arcs, mostly related to the use of friendly combat NPCs in missions. I know you often get the choice on whether or not to use them, but in my experience it hasn't been clear on the first playthrough just how much help they're going to be. There are many missions where you could quite literally do nothing while your super-duper NPC buddies clear out the entire thing for you. And then there can be a mission in the very same arc that ends up being difficult simply because it's not clear what you're even supposed to be doing, often due to Ned's mentioned Caption issue.
The last thing I'll complain about that has definitely gotten worse is the use of the giant blobs of NPC dialogue that gets vomited out right as combat starts. This has been a problem for quite a while, but with the ever-increasing focus on story, the frequency of it has gone way up. Similarly, dialogue that takes place when talking to a friendly-but-about-to-turn-unfriendly NPC is often impossible to actually read before they start fighting.
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No, I put in in quotes to indicate its general acclaim as "the" way to get past the early levels & its cruddy, painfully inefficient legacy content.|
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
I think you keep mistaking 'everyone' for 'I'.
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Pre "gutting" I always ran through the AP (or preferably GC) and KR content. Because I liked it. Now there is no GC. There is practically no AP content, and one DfB run will take you past KR. Maybe they were 'terrible', but I liked them. Much better than what we have now, at any rate. |
Along with Sam, that makes two people in the entire game.
=P *
* this emoticon indicates that I know there are actually more than two people in the entire game that liked it, but whatever the actual number is remains statistically insignificant.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Well, the six people who started there because they didn't want anybody else in the zone with them (and yes, that is an actual defense of Galaxy from some long ago threads) can form up a support group, like these guys did.|
Originally Posted by Primary_Unit
Sorry, I don't consider myself "nobody." And the only thing about the changes in the past two years that actually bothers me is the destruction of Galaxy City. Galaxy City wasn't the popular place, so it wasn't needed, so boom? And the heck with those of us who preferred it?
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Generally for the purposes of internet argument, "everyone" means "the vast majority of players" and "nobody" means "a statistically insignificant minority".
I'm not motivated enough to break out the legally binding contract language for a forum post, sorry.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I agree with the folks that think things are getting better from issue to issue:
I've been quite excited by nearly every new issue, SSA, powerset, costume, balance change, travel option and QoL improvements they've been pouring out lately.
I like the incarnate powers and even enjoy some of the trials, even if in general I prefer sticking to solo.
And even if I am not a huge fan of the mystic stuff, I think DA is the most epic thing I've played in a looong time, especially among the things I can solo! (I just don't expect to get all my incarnate powers from it.)
I also don't mind the ragdoll bugs much (I see them as kinda funny and as an unintended boon to KB as mitigation - sometimes they NEVER get up!), I can handle the dumb pet AI, barely notice the typos or worse erros in mission text...
I never did a DfB trial (and probably won't, never did a sewer run before either, these things require teams and, unlike incarnate trials, actually have a fun and generally efficient alternative), I like the new arcs, I really like running the arcs in the new and improved Hollows, I'm kinda indifferent to the tutorials, old or new (and anyway, I'll only spend a few hours with each new character before all this talk about the low levels becomes irrelevant, even playing solo and not touching AE)...
So, in general I'm very happy with where CoH is going... With ONE glaring exception:
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Night Ward! Hate it already (and I only ran the first arc, I've been reading it gets a lot worse). I doubt I'll ever set foot there again. It's A LOT worse than Malta, IMO.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I find that a lot of new enemy groups are extremely painful to solo on a squishy character. Not quite Malta level annoying but definitely getting up there.
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So, I get that starting in CoV is (or used to be at least) a bit harder than in CoH and that starting in Praetoria is harder still, and then staying in Praetoria tends to be a bit harder than not staying there...
And I like some difficulty - I did start in Praetoria with a bunch of characters, I enjoyed the First Ward, I'm soloing DA on high difficulties with a bunch of chars (including squishies - though it's tough to call them that nowadays), my first character was a Rad/Rad defender before toggle supression (the detoggles were a burst of adrenaline!), xp-smoothing, the debt nerf, inventions and all that, who had to run nearly every story arc in the game to get to 50 solo (including Malta, Carnies, CoT, Praetoria with all the EBs, KoA, DE...)
But the Night Ward is just frustrating enough to make me wanna forget about it! I didn't even feel like going to the wiki to read about these stories I'm just not gonna play through after setting foot there and letting the hate be born...
Hey devs, hint: if you wanna throw us against tons of mez (including exotic mez like fear and confusion), debuffs, pet summoners, flying high-damage melee thingies, high-ranged damage enemies, IN EVERY MOB so inspirations finish in the beginning of the mission, facing multiple bosses or EBs/AVs at the end... FINE, but DO IT AFTER LEVEL 40 or so, when we already have most of our key powers, aren't hungry for slots anymore and can usually get good mileage out of IOs!
The NW arcs being level 30-35 is just a big PITA for me.I could run NW without high levels of frustration with my melee characters (that includes ranged SoA I guess) most likely, or with my controllers (maybe with my doms, but before permadom levels, I'm not sure) or with most MMs...
But if it's gonna be frustrating as hell for my defenders/corruptors (maybe trappers would do well there, too, but I don't only play trappers), blasters, kheldians who decide not to be dwarves all the time etc., I'll just ignore it with everybody and stick to the places where I know all my characters will rock more or less equally.
Going from NW to the I-still-love'em Croatoa final arcs is like stepping out of a prison cell overcrowded with sodomites and into an amusement park (with a bit of extra blood!).
Not everybody plays high-durability-mez-ignoring characters (though I guess most people actually do), not everybody plays only in [good and largeish] teams, not everybody is going to want to run mid-level content only (or at all) with IO'ed-out level 50s with access to most of their powers! And for those who do and enjoy a more difficult challenge for those characters, the difficulty slider is there!
So I really hope this thing with much higher difficulty enemies popping up much earlier than they should stops with NW instead of becoming a tendency...
And no, turning bosses off and running NW on -1x1 isn't an option I'd even consider, since it's not something I have to do anywhere else in the game...
Ok, rant over. It's probably only my second rant or so in this forums in all these long years, so I won't even apologise for it.
Playing CoH with Gestures
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It only started a few months ago, shortly after I published my last arc in February (which, yes, had its story flow and surprises ruined).
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
I don't know if this broke in the last 2 years, but it is really annoying
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It took me a while to think of something that's gotten worse in the past two years. In my view, most things have gotten noticeably better. Even the things I don't much like, such as mega-raids, aren't really "worse." They're just things I don't like.
However, then I recalled something that has been getting worse and worse for years now: the forums!
"Bombarding the CoH/V fora with verbosity since January, 2006"
Djinniman, level 50 inv/fire tanker, on Victory
-and 40 others on various servers
A CoH Comic: Kid Eros in "One Light"
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Ew!|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
As above, the NPC enemy ragdoll physics got messed up a few issues ago and they've not been able to fix it. Enemies will get caught with their waste twirled around...
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| ...a few times and will fall into the ground, writhing and spinning... sometimes before they're even defeated. |
I also agree with the people who miss having options for starter content. I like the new blueside missions, but it's kind of a drag to have to do the same handful of missions again and again. I like the badges for Twinshot's storyline, but I am really tired of doing the "Kill Skuls Shuffle" for Blue Steel.
I never thought I'd say this, but since the DfB is obviously designed to provide a quick path to 20, why don't they just start selling Jumpstart tokens? For 10 Empyreans or 800PP, buy an item to allow one character to start at level 20? Then if that works, sell a Level 50 Jumpstart for 4,000PP. But I digress...
@Glass Goblin - Writer, brainstormer, storyteller, hero
Though nothing will drive them away
We can beat them, just for one day
We can be heroes, just for one day
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This this this. The hideous contortions those poor mobs go through is exponentially worse than being forced there by whatever powers or abilities I heap on their heads. And when mobs get "stuck" and can't get up, I relish whittling them down to nothing even while I feel guilty about cheating while doing it.|
Originally Posted by Nylonus
Ragdoll physics.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
What I'd say has gotten worse is the way Incarnate content is almost all trial-trial-trial. We finally get a LITTLE small team/solo content, then we get a brand new type of iXP for the next slot up and... trial trial farm the trial again, like they didn't learn anything from it. That, *to me,* is a step backward.
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
Escorts are still horrid, and made even worse when you are on a Stalker and every few steps they say:
"$name, where are you?" "$name, I need help!" |
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
Story direction, implementation, and the quality of the writing.
PVP has gotten worse. (Overload, Hybrid Control, Darkness Control, Panther Travel Power, PPM Purples procs.) Not to mention zero pvp bug fixes that weren't specifically asked for by ME. I'm basically the PVP dev.
AE - new maps, critters, and powers not being added.
Bases - no sign of base raids. No new content added.
Rag Doll Physics.
Graphic driver requirements.
There's a lot of good stuff being added too! That's just the bad stuff!
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This, too. For a while there, the story direction and the actual technical quality of the writing was in tailspin and actually in danger of alienating me on the game entirely. Amateurish writing, terrible proof-reading and the mistaken belief that character deaths are the same as drama nearly ran what used to be a respectable fictional universe into the ground.|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
Story direction, implementation, and the quality of the writing.
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Luckily, this has been a lot less prominent in recent times. I don't know if someone got replaced, someone learned to spell or someone finally got the hint, but the I22 and I23 content has been a massive improvement on the frightening decay of I19-I21.
I don't think I can quite the game's "story" as being something that is worse now. It got VERY bad at one point, but it's improved a lot now, to where it's pretty much on par with the better examples of the game's past. I guess we dodged a bullet on that one.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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How is not say... Farming RSF, LGTF, and many other tfs different from iTrials? You still get XP if your the minimum required level and rewards at the end. When shards came out to get alpha stuff... Tfs can turn into farms too... Anything can be "farmed" really.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I'd turn your #2 on its head. "Everyone (a word to avoid, btw) does DIB instead of contacts" isn't quite it - they've seriously trimmed down heroside starting options, making it easier to burn out on not-all-that-compelling content, so there's more reason to DIB past it.
What I'd say has gotten worse is the way Incarnate content is almost all trial-trial-trial. We finally get a LITTLE small team/solo content, then we get a brand new type of iXP for the next slot up and... trial trial farm the trial again, like they didn't learn anything from it. That, *to me,* is a step backward. |
VIG0S: 1356 badges in counting
Something for ppl to use
I second rag doll physics. Mobs end up contorted in ridiculous manner, although it could sometimes end up being funny. Most of the time not.
Particularly when it's your pet writhing on the floor after being knocked down and unable to get upright.
Mob AI is terrible. I've recently seen confused mobs simply run off without attacking anything nearby to just stand in a random spot.
Mobs running off even mid combat when their nearby mobs are still fighting. And not just running off but going clear across a map.
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I saw plenty of people there all the time. As many as AP? No. But certainly far from "nobody". Hell, I PREFERRED starting in there SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE it was less populated than AP.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
So they were okay as long as you started in the zone where nobody ever started.
Noted! |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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This is kinda my problem. It's not that I don't like the new AP missions. I miss having the options starting out is all. Rather than several different arcs, there's one start with maybe two branches. That's a huge step down, IMO.|
Originally Posted by cursedsorcerer
Actually, I kinda agree. I miss having a different contact based on what origin I chose.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
As above, the NPC enemy ragdoll physics got messed up a few issues ago and they've not been able to fix it. Enemies will get caught with their waste twirled around a few times and will fall into the ground, writhing and spinning... sometimes before they're even defeated.
Take out an Energy/Energy Blaster and you're sure to see it quite clearly. And, the point was that it was broken ("made worse") within the past two years. |
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Originally Posted by Cover Girl
clearly you havent played much then have you? theres a few powersets we used to call Ice, Kinetic Melee, Assault Rifle. roll some new toons once in a while.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Completely disagree.
Anything that makes folks get the hell out of AE farms of one ss/fire doing all the work on a cave map is good. |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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not sure why you're upset as you just re-stated the point I made with my post-|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
I saw plenty of people there all the time. As many as AP? No. But certainly far from "nobody". Hell, I PREFERRED starting in there SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE it was less populated than AP.
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"I liked it because it was empty!" isn't good MMO logic.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
This feels like nitpicking because Paragon Studios done so well since 2010, but quickly
- among other flaws, Dual Pistol's inability to cancel the rooting effect of its lengthy animations means technically-skilled players can't eek out better performance of the set (see: Trick Arrow, Broad Sword, Assault Rifle)
- Kheldians lost the ability to animation cancel when shifting out of forms (but the new instant shift is pretty nifty)
- Titan Weapons is about as well-balanced as Black Scorpion and Scirocco on a seesaw
PenanceжTriage
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What makes you think I'm upset? Because I added emphasis to certain words?|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
not sure why you're upset as you just re-stated the point I made with my post-
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| "I liked it because it was empty!" isn't good MMO logic. |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Well I know what I want for the next TW model!
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Originally Posted by Patient_V
- Titan Weapons is about as well-balanced as Black Scorpion and Scirocco on a seesaw
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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ALL CAPS means either you're yelling or you're unbalanced, or you're being satirical...which in this case I've discounted as a possibility.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
What makes you think I'm upset? Because I added emphasis to certain words?
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You can emphasize points without coming across like an aggressive panhandler with italics or bolded text.
Or even underlining!
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| "Less crowded" =/= "empty" |
This is like the tenth time I've had to explain the concept of exaggeration for effect.
Maybe I should just add the link to my sig.
Anyway, there's nobody there in comparison to its busy counterpart, Atlas. And an empty, redundant starting zone is superfluous and distracting for new players.
A game feature's lack of popularity is not a recommendation for any but a fringe minority of players.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Multiple exclamation marks, the sure sign of a diseased/insane mind.
</pratchett>
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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fixed
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
This is like the MILLIONTH time I've had to explain the concept of exaggeration for effect.
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