Proposed Snipe Changes - Please no "Magic Number" for useful snipes
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-06-21 10:16 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Just to point out, a casual player who just so happens to have picked up their snipe power could be moving through a mission and decides to tackle a hard spawn but notices some odd sized yellow inspirations are clogging his tray so pops them to make room and *surprise* their snipe power gets this orange ring around it ! They notice this happens on teams sometimes or when they use aim. After witnessing the phenomenon a few times, they eventually try pressing it while it's lit up...
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Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
And since the breaking point is a hard cap with no indications or documentation, it very, VERY heavily favors wiki and forum readers. A guy who just looks at abilities and set bonuses could figure out that perma-hasten is good and work towards it (plus it'll get better as he gets closer). A Super Reflexes tank can look at his combat stats and compare it to some enemy scans to figure out that he is, in fact, stacking too much +def. But this all-or-nothing, undocumented change simply cannot be deduced from data in-game. And the benefits for achieving it, based on Arcanaville's numbers, seem really substantial. *shrug* I think that's the kind of situation the developers are hoping to avoid. |
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As Leo points out, the orange ring is a visual indicator that something is different. Coupled that with a line in the long description of the power and Brain's objection is averted. Sure, it remains a binary difference, but far less arcane than the amount of recharge needed for perma-Domination or how they jump from 40% def to 45% is more effective than the jump from 10% to 15%|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Just to point out, a casual player who just so happens to have picked up their snipe power could be moving through a mission and decides to tackle a hard spawn but notices some odd sized yellow inspirations are clogging his tray so pops them to make room and *surprise* their snipe power gets this orange ring around it ! They notice this happens on teams sometimes or when they use aim. After witnessing the phenomenon a few times, they eventually try pressing it while it's lit up...
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Looking at some of my builds, it wouldn't be difficult to alternate Build Up and Aim to keep the fast snipe for more than 50% of the time.
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Messing around with Mids, I figured a way to fill in my Snipe without sacrificing any important powers or losing +def values. My idea was in teams to use Snipe in my chain, since there is so many people usually running Tactics. Blazing Bolt + Blaze + Fire Blast.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
True. I find running Tactics to be a popular thing on teams. So on teams, I'd likely expect to see lots of Blasters able to use Snipe often at it's non interruptable phase.
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My only real problem with this entire thing is that for non /dev and /em blasters or pretty much any dominator it's pretty much impossible to build for perma-fast snipes. It's something that only really exists in the realm of defenders and corruptors (and the aforementioned /dev or /em blasters) and there's the chance dominators will be able to build for it through perma-domination by the end of this.|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
As I've said earlier... I do not believe the devs intend for you to have perma-fast snipes out of the box. I believe they intend for you to build for that if you decide it is worth the investment. If you decide not to do so the snipes are still useful. Too many people here seem to believe that if the snipe is not perma-fast it is not useful. I disagree. Especially considering the number of tools available to have that fast snipe available fairly often even if not perma.
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I have zero problem with perma-fast snipes being an only sometimes thing that's tied to using aim or build up(did people actually complain about having to use aim and build up? That's just silly), but why does that need to only apply to blasters and dominators? If it's supposed to be a sometimes only mechanic then let it be sometimes only for everyone or let everyone make the hard build choices to take multiple powers and slot them excessively in order to get it on all the time.
In the end we'll get what we'll get and it's no real skin off my back since all my blasters either don't have a snipe or are either /dev, /em or /mm. It just seems odd to me since on the surface it looks like it's supposed to be an occasional thing but then it doesn't have to be for two whole ATs.
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Personally, I'm happy having "fast snipe" as a sometimes power. I don't think it SHOULD be a "always on" deal. Any attempt to bring down the ToHit % to let Corrs and Defs build for "Always on" Fast-Snipe might as well be answered with just gutting the entire idea and removing Interrupt time from all snipes and allow them to function as "fast" 100% of the time.
That's essentially what people are asking for, it seems. They don't wanna wait for team buffs, or BU + Aim to recharge, or have to use -gasp- inspirations. If they can't use FastSnipe whenever they want, it's essentially useless. That's what I'm getting from people who are deriding these proposed changes.
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Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
This is overall damage from rotation, yes?
OK, now reduce that somewhat due to aim giving fast snipe some of the time, and likewise Build Up. Still, a 15-30% boost for Blaster and 20-40% for the others seems a little steep. |
If it goes live as is, I'll just continue my trend of avoiding Blasters and treat the snipe like a new T4 Blast for Corruptors.
I mean, my Dark and Psy Corruptors don't even have Aim as a choice, so it's not like there is another option. And since neither set really has a T3 blast to speak of, getting what is essentially a T4 is mana from heaven, and minor build gymnastics are as close to a requirement as you can get. I assume both blasts will even have a range of range of 175 ft. But I guess to some people, that's "optional."
I guess it is, in the sense that you have the "option" of spending money to make an extremely sub-par build that doesn't take advantage of what's on offer, but like I said earlier, it's impossible to counter the argument that something is balanced because some people make self-defeating build decisions.
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EVERY dominator can have perma snipe. Tactics + Kismet + Link Minds. Sure that means you're pigeonhold into psi APP in some cases, just like time users are pigeonhold into powerboost/powerbuildup.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
My only real problem with this entire thing is that for non /dev and /em blasters or pretty much any dominator it's pretty much impossible to build for perma-fast snipes. It's something that only really exists in the realm of defenders and corruptors (and the aforementioned /dev or /em blasters) and there's the chance dominators will be able to build for it through perma-domination by the end of this.
I have zero problem with perma-fast snipes being an only sometimes thing that's tied to using aim or build up(did people actually complain about having to use aim and build up? That's just silly), but why does that need to only apply to blasters and dominators? If it's supposed to be a sometimes only mechanic then let it be sometimes only for everyone or let everyone make the hard build choices to take multiple powers and slot them excessively in order to get it on all the time. In the end we'll get what we'll get and it's no real skin off my back since all my blasters either don't have a snipe or are either /dev, /em or /mm. It just seems odd to me since on the surface it looks like it's supposed to be an occasional thing but then it doesn't have to be for two whole ATs. |
/dark blasters can hit the 22% mark as well... that leaves /mental, /elec, /ice and /fire who can't do perma... or can they? With enough recharge any /mental, /elec, /ice or /fire who have aim in their primary can have virtually perma snipes by cycliing aim and build up. Failing that ANY blaster who cant hit the 22% mark can get enough +to-hit on their own that they can exceed it with a single tiny acc insp.
EDIT: By no means am I saying the system is perfect... far from it, but I do believe we need to wait and see EVERYTHING that's coming with this change before we can adequately critique it.
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I did not mean it as yelling lol. I just wanted it to stand out some to those that skim threads. I suppose italics would have sufficed. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
It's really not necessary to yell at me. I appreciate that emotions are running high, but this isn't personal.
My apologies if I've offended you somehow. I feel like I'm working overtime to be polite, and would appreciate if you could do the same. |
Also, lol at "yelling" through typing. Even after all this time with the internet and the abundance of texts, tweets, I-facebookspace posts etc, it is still an underlying issue that body language and intonation are mostly lost through typed communication.
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Originally Posted by Eldagore
I did not mean it as yelling lol. I just wanted it to stand out some to those that skim threads. I suppose italics would have sufficed.
Also, lol at "yelling" through typing. Even after all this time with the internet and the abundance of texts, tweets, I-facebookspace posts etc, it is still an underlying issue that body language and intonation are mostly lost through typed communication. |
Understood and point taken.
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Corruptors and defenders have no trouble having an always on fast snipe it takes one power pick and slotting a kismet+6 for them.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Personally, I'm happy having "fast snipe" as a sometimes power. I don't think it SHOULD be a "always on" deal. Any attempt to bring down the ToHit % to let Corrs and Defs build for "Always on" Fast-Snipe might as well be answered with just gutting the entire idea and removing Interrupt time from all snipes and allow them to function as "fast" 100% of the time.
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| That's essentially what people are asking for, it seems. They don't wanna wait for team buffs, or BU + Aim to recharge, or have to use -gasp- inspirations. If they can't use FastSnipe whenever they want, it's essentially useless. That's what I'm getting from people who are deriding these proposed changes. |
Blasters have needed a damage boost for nearly 3 years now. They didn't need it along with every other AT that had snipes, they needed it relative to every other AT.
Making blasters jump through hoops to use fast snipes when other ATs don't have to is just nuts.
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This point you are trying to make, and Tex too- it is based on the presumption that indeed, fastsnipe mechanic is going to be so powerful you would be a total idiot not to use it, or that it will become a defining power in blast archtypes, like assasin strike to stalkers. |
Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
What he said. And let me make my complaint more specific - the problem isn't that you *have* to take the snipe. Stalkers *have* to take Assassin's Strike, and I am be part of the vast majority who seem to have no issue with that.
The problem arises with the fact that once I take the snipe, I (as a Defender or Corruptor) must then go two deep into a specific Pool set in order to get full access to this incredibly potent attack that will be available every ~6 seconds. Plus, as a corruptor, I will be stacking 87% +hit in Tactics, violating an otherwise near-universal maxim of intelligent build design (don't keep stacking a stat once you reach the 15% return level of ED) because the last .6% hit I get from stacking a 4th +to-hit takes me past the magic number that makes my snipe fast cast. And a +hit Kismet is now mandatory...but I'm less irritated about that, one slot somewhere on my build irks me less than two mandated powers. Sure, I *can* skip this whole mess - the same way you *could* skip Stamina when Fitness was a pool. But it was so good that it became mandatory, and I and Oedipus and others are arguing that reliable fast cast snipes are so good and so central that they *will* make Tactics mandatory for every Corruptor and Defender - especially since the Blaster version is apparently being balanced around the assumption that they'll have perma-fast snipes in parties. (Woe betide the post-I24 Defender who's in an 8 person party with a blaster who isn't receiving perma-fast snipes. I assure you the whining will be audible from orbit.) TLDR - mandatory primary/secondary powers are OK, mandatory Pool Powers are bad, and perma-fast snipes are sufficiently potent that Tactics will become mandatory for any Def or Corr who aspires to play a halfway optimized build. |
As I said in my first post here, it is highly doubtful the dev team plans for this kind of outcome. IMO, in their minds, they see the change and have some sort of calculable DPS increase in mind- and I am certain it is not a value that would end up with a situation you and Tex are trying to advocate.
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And that sounds like a good idea to you ? That every dominator can have a permanent fast snipe that does more damage than a blasters while most blasters will not ?|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
EVERY dominator can have perma snipe. Tactics + Kismet + Link Minds. Sure that means you're pigeonhold into psi APP in some cases, just like time users are pigeonhold into powerboost/powerbuildup.
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Really I wouldn't mind if this was the start of fixes for the blast sets but I can't buy that at this point. Defiance 2.0 was put in, in 2008 4 years later we get our correction ? When is the review due for this 2016 ?
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You are wrong|
Originally Posted by Eldagore
This point you are trying to make, and Tex too- it is based on the presumption that indeed, fastsnipe mechanic is going to be so powerful you would be a total idiot not to use it, or that it will become a defining power in blast archtypes, like assasin strike to stalkers.
As I said in my first post here, it is highly doubtful the dev team plans for this kind of outcome. IMO, in their minds, they see the change and have some sort of calculable DPS increase in mind- and I am certain it is not a value that would end up with a situation you and Tex are trying to advocate. |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=291837
Its not perfect but it shows the DPS of the chains using the new snipes for very aggressive optimization.
My own numbers show that you can get an easy 20- 30% more single target DPS.
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I don't know that people are asking for that specifically. Most of them that do not like what we can see so far because of how the to hit requirement would work or what it encourages in builds (and the setup does encourage people to want and go for perma insta-snipe). To be honest, I mostly just wanted Snipes to have their animation/interrupt times justified. If they could have dropped a minion at least with their old setup and a lieutenant with build up (for Blasters), I would have been more happy with them.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Personally, I'm happy having "fast snipe" as a sometimes power. I don't think it SHOULD be a "always on" deal. Any attempt to bring down the ToHit % to let Corrs and Defs build for "Always on" Fast-Snipe might as well be answered with just gutting the entire idea and removing Interrupt time from all snipes and allow them to function as "fast" 100% of the time.
That's essentially what people are asking for, it seems. They don't wanna wait for team buffs, or BU + Aim to recharge, or have to use -gasp- inspirations. If they can't use FastSnipe whenever they want, it's essentially useless. That's what I'm getting from people who are deriding these proposed changes. |
What we have now is something different entirely. If the devs want to give us a potential fast snipe, I'm fine with the concept, I just want it to work better across the various powersets that have snipes.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
EDIT: By no means am I saying the system is perfect... far from it, but I do believe we need to wait and see EVERYTHING that's coming with this change before we can adequately critique it.
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We'll certainly need to see what hits beta to critique that, but until then, we go with what we have.
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I am not saying we shouldn't discuss it. Simply that we shouldn't lose our cool over it and scream "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!". When all is said and done, the devs just aren't going to hand us IWIN buttons and call it a day. If Hybrid's released form is any indication, most of us hoping for perma-fast snipe awesomsauce will probably be highly disappointed with the outcome of all this LOL! For all we know when snipes are fast they do half damage or some such. Just look at how assassin strike works.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I don't know that people are asking for that specifically. Most of them that do not like what we can see so far because of how the to hit requirement would work or what it encourages in builds (and the setup does encourage people to want and go for perma insta-snipe). To be honest, I mostly just wanted Snipes to have their animation/interrupt times justified. If they could have dropped a minion at least with their old setup and a lieutenant with build up (for Blasters), I would have been more happy with them.
What we have now is something different entirely. If the devs want to give us a potential fast snipe, I'm fine with the concept, I just want it to work better across the various powersets that have snipes. I agree that the system we can see is far from perfect, but I can't go with you on waiting to see to discuss it. We have some info and players are going to hash it over, that's what the forums are for. If the devs didn't want to, they're perfectly capable of keeping mum about it. Arbiter Hawk has kept his thoughts pretty close to the vest in the past (we're getting much more talk from him ahead of time on these snipe/ranged changes than Kheldians got when changes were actually on beta!). If the devs didn't want us to talk these over, they wouldn't have said anything. We'll certainly need to see what hits beta to critique that, but until then, we go with what we have. |
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"You are wrong" is a pretty strongly worded response when your basis for it is as shaky as it is.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
You are wrong
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=291837 Its not perfect but it shows the DPS of the chains using the new snipes for very aggressive optimization. My own numbers show that you can get an easy 20- 30% more single target DPS. |
Within the first 10 posts there are numerous complaints of the metrics used in the analysis in that thread. Not the least of which is the IO slotting and incarnate abilities used to amplify the results. And looking at sets in that way will have a bad effect on how this change is implemented in the end IMO.
-For one, it is not really a build goal lately for much of anyone to make a blaster "best ST dmg" build, unless you have a specific goal of fighting GM's or something in mind. AOE is king in the city.
-Perma fast snipe, using devices which is mostly what that post shows, totally ignores what build up does for aoe dmg. Go ahaed and make that archery/devices character for that awsome fastsnipe ability. i will continue happily without it on my archery/electric. Fastsnipe is not going to help fireball/firebreath combos, even as it does make fire's ST dmg go up. I would make the comparison of this ST vs AOE DPS thing like this:
My insane recharge bonus built katana/SR scrapper vs my Elec/shield scrapper. my katana scrapper chains soaring dragon/golden dragonfly almost seemlessly, with some gamblers cut thrown in here and there to fill in a gap once in a while. he can take down a single hard target like no ones buisness. My elec/sheidl scrapper is an aoe machine. he has good recharge built in, but not really all that great, and his build is certainly not as expensive.
Guess which one blows through a x8 mission faster?
The point is, looking at one very specific point of a powerset when comparing them leaves out some VERY important and relevent info. The only real thing that thread does show is that indeed, adding fast snipe to fire blast could be a tricky buisness as blazing bolt is a powerful attack and fire is already a front runner in this game because of its easy to use and formidable aoe.
but we already knew that. I am sure the devs do too. Sort of how they already know Ice blast may need a minor tweek to stay with the pack, and sonic too.
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For a more positive suggestion... The devs could simply have Defiance provide a passive +5% hit buff. That alone makes it so Tactics + Kismet will hit the 22% plateau and it's a Blaster exclusive buff giving them some sort of parity compared to the other AT's that have higher base numbers or more support powers to hit the 22% mark. It's also a small but nice buff to Blasters of all shapes and sizes.
The devs could do the same for domination (have it give 5% to hit) if they don't want to outright provide fast-snipe during its duration.
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Well, there are some that are getting a bit bleak about how this is a lame improvement for Blasters and such, but that's not that many people. Maybe I'm reading the wrong threads, but I don't see any sky is falling from anyone other than the usual people that act that way.|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
I am not saying we shouldn't discuss it. Simply that we shouldn't lose our cool over it and scream "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!". When all is said and done, the devs just aren't going to hand us IWIN buttons and call it a day. If Hybrid's released form is any indication, most of us hoping for perma-fast snipe awesomsauce will probably be highly disappointed with the outcome of all this LOL! For all we know when snipes are fast they do half damage or some such. Just look at how assassin strike works.
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We'll see where it goes in beta, but Hybrid when it hit beta had at least some indications that the devs didn't want it up all the time. Snipes current proposal seems to be okay with it being perma if there is enough investment from the build (both from the numbers and Hawk's comments in the Blaster thread).
Out of curiosity, what do you mean by Assassin's Strike? It works pretty well right now across powersets and is a great boost to my Stalkers' combat ability. I wish the Snip proposal worked as well.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
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Quote:
Huh, you know I never take the psi APP on my dominators so that was just completely off my radar. Though with time can't you get to 22% just from Farsight alone eventually? Well along with a kismet.|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
EVERY dominator can have perma snipe. Tactics + Kismet + Link Minds. Sure that means you're pigeonhold into psi APP in some cases, just like time users are pigeonhold into powerboost/powerbuildup.
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And I stand corrected. Average joe blaster can build to perma-fast snipe if they build for (I believe) 350% recharge(including enhancements).
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You can't get to 22% on Farsight alone. You'd need to use the Kismet at the very least even as a defender. Farsight's to-hit buff is the same value as tactics for defenders.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
Huh, you know I never take the psi APP on my dominators so that was just completely off my radar. Though with time can't you get to 22% just from Farsight alone eventually? Well along with a kismet.
And I stand corrected. Average joe blaster can build to perma-fast snipe if they build for (I believe) 350% recharge(including enhancements). |
Now if you take power buildup from the power mastery APP you can far and away exceed that (and of course make the defense buff uber too) without using the kismet. That still necessitates a specific power from a specific APP.
Defenders by nature are the best at buffing so it makes sense they have an easier time hitting that cap. Corruptors have lower base values but still decent so they too can hit it with Farsight and a kismet but they may have to slot their Farsight oddly to push over into the 22% margin unless they go with power buildup instead (which would seem to be the wiser choice). That any dom can do it at all is pretty remarkable.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
For a more positive suggestion... The devs could simply have Defiance provide a passive +5% hit buff. That alone makes it so Tactics + Kismet will hit the 22% plateau and it's a Blaster exclusive buff giving them some sort of parity compared to the other AT's that have higher base numbers or more support powers to hit the 22% mark. It's also a small but nice buff to Blasters of all shapes and sizes.
The devs could do the same for domination (have it give 5% to hit) if they don't want to outright provide fast-snipe during its duration. |
At that point you might as well just make the snipe become a T4 blast for everyone regardless of ToHit. Which I would be fine with. I'd also be fine with the reverse, just putting the numbers outside of reach with Tactics so no one gets it perma. Whatever they want to do.
But setting it up so a T4 blast is locked behind hitting a magic number that isn't particularly hard to hit means most everyone is going to distort their builds just enough to hit it. That's not choice except in the sense that you have the choice of whether to build intelligently.
There is a new statement that just entered this thread recently that suggests maybe it won't be that bad because the power won't hit that hard, which really just kind of raises the question: if it doesn't hit that hard why would anyone take the Snipe at all, especially if it was intended that you only get that not very good damage boost only part of the time? So we have to believe that the snipe does some level of damage over and above what the set is currently capable of, and skipping that in favor of something else is functionally not very different than skipping a key power in any other set. You certainly can skip your T3 in the current system, but doing so is silly except for making arguments that everything is ultimately a "choice" and no power is "required."
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Well to answer that question, If the snipe's damage is reduced when it's non-interruptable, that doesn't mean it's damage will be bad. Stalkers are quite happy to hit Assassin Strike even when not in Hide these days. It may not have the "oooh ahhh" factor of a Hidden Assassin's Strike but it's a nice button to hit regardless.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
At that point you might as well just make the snipe become a T4 blast for everyone regardless of ToHit. Which I would be fine with. I'd also be fine with the reverse, just putting the numbers outside of reach with Tactics so no one gets it perma. Whatever they want to do.
But setting it up so a T4 blast is locked behind hitting a magic number that isn't particularly hard to hit means most everyone is going to distort their builds just enough to hit it. That's not choice except in the sense that you have the choice of whether to build intelligently. There is a new statement that just entered this thread recently that suggests maybe it won't be that bad because the power won't hit that hard, which really just kind of raises the question: if it doesn't hit that hard why would anyone take the Snipe at all, especially if it was intended that you only get that not very good damage boost only part of the time? |
In the case of snipes, The reduced damage if used as "part of your typical attack chain" could very well be the trade off from it being a "big hit from afar with a long cast time". Maybe the damage will be less than a tier 3 blast but higher than your tier 2? Maybe exactly the same as tier 3? I am sure there's quite a few reasons to take it in those cases, like say Electric Blast, or Those who prefer to skip the tier 1 blasts and want a full attack chain with a harder hitting attack. We still need more information on how these changes will be implemented exactly.
But for all we know the damage will stay exactly as it is whether fast or slow. It's really hard to say without more info.
I think the point, however, is that giving up a three power choices (snipe, maneuvers, tactics), several slots and having to use a specific IO just to achieve that perm-fast snipe may not always be worth it. Or may not be possible when trying to accomplish something specific with your build (like high recharge or soft capped defenses).
It's a trade off to be sure depending on your desires. If the devs just gave Blasters passive 5% hit in Defiance then they can achieve the perma-fast snipe without outside help at considerable personal investment (much like some dom's go for perma dom without hasten through excessive passive recharge so they can autofire it and forget about it). It's not just handed to them. Not everyone will choose to make that investment even if they are educated enough to know the ramifications of that choice. There are several other factors that determine a character's viability besides how optimal its single target attack chain is.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
I am amazed at some things that are being stated. Glad that we have this opportunity though to hash it out for all to see.
Many of the "opponents" of perma-fast snipes are also saying that it will not be that great of an improvement. Ok then, why would you be opposed to a more sensible system that is fair across all ATs. Tied to +ToHit like it seems to be, is flat out favoring certain builds and AT/powersets.
And IF, this is not that great of a boost (which, I am sorry, IT IS), why does it surprise anyone that people will build for it. They will. The problem is that whatever system is used should be just as "Achievable" for any snipe-using Powerset AND any Snipe-using AT. The current porposal IS NOT EQUITABLE.
The more I think on this, the more I am in-line with Arcanaville. If you currently have no aggro, then the attack should do Double Damage to its target AND have the interrupt. IF you have some aggro, then it becomes a standard, non-interruptable attack with some value around its current one, perhaps slightly lowered because of activation rules. THEN, people could take the attack and use it either way, but it would only be stellar dmg AS A SNIPE.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Quote:
No system will be equitable unless they tailor it to each specific AT or use the aggro mechanics you describe. The devs, however, seem to be reluctant to use such a system (assuming it's even possible within the game engine). The AT's are too diverse to make sure every AT of every power set combination has the exact same opportunity to achieve the perma-fast snipe.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
I am amazed at some things that are being stated. Glad that we have this opportunity though to hash it out for all to see.
Many of the "opponents" of perma-fast snipes are also saying that it will not be that great of an improvement. Ok then, why would you be opposed to a more sensible system that is fair across all ATs. Tied to +ToHit like it seems to be, is flat out favoring certain builds and AT/powersets. And IF, this is not that great of a boost (which, I am sorry, IT IS), why does it surprise anyone that people will build for it. They will. The problem is that whatever system is used should be just as "Achievable" for any snipe-using Powerset AND any Snipe-using AT. The current porposal IS NOT EQUITABLE. The more I think on this, the more I am in-line with Arcanaville. If you currently have no aggro, then the attack should do Double Damage to its target AND have the interrupt. IF you have some aggro OR you are under the effects of ANY "to-hit" Buff (regardless of value), then it becomes a standard, non-interruptable attack with some value around its current one, perhaps slightly lowered becuase of activation rules. THEN, people could take the attack and use it either way, but it would only be stellar dmg AS A SNIPE. |
With that said... simply giving Blasters 5% to-hit passively in Defiance and, in doms case give 5% hit when dom is up, brings a level of parity amongst most of the AT's and power set combos. Sure a few will still have an edge... most notably /Devices Blasters as well as Defenders and Corruptors due to their higher base values for buffs, but in general everyone would be able to achieve the perma-fast snipe without too different an investment.
Blasters that aren't Devices would need tactics and a kismet. (or rely on cycling Aim and Buildup with high recharge)
Defenders/Corruptors would need tactics and a kismet (with some variations based on powerset choices like the Farsight/Power Buildup combo)
Dominators would need tactics and a kismet (with Domination or Link Minds up)
That sounds about as close to equitable as we can hope for to be honest (assuming the to-hit mechanic stays).
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
If the numbers in that thread are correct it looks like between 30-50% AR looks even higher
OK, now reduce that somewhat due to aim giving fast snipe some of the time, and likewise Build Up.
Still, a 15-30% boost for Blaster and 20-40% for the others seems a little steep.