Also, also, also... I started thinking that HEALTH was a key to greater Blaster parity/success (and more inline with my experiences and desires than defenses, mez protections and such), so I am pretty pleased to see the Regen aspect and I'm hopeful that works out well.
We'll see...
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Quote:
Well the thing is Blasters shouldn't be able to take large amounts of burst damage. Adding Regen does seem like a sensible change to me, it allows Blasters to stay in the fight longer and avoids the annoying downtime between fights.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
The Regen change is large, maybe larger than I realize, but I don't think it works right.
Arcanaville came to the Regen-equivalent number by looking at smoothly applying damage over time; if you are smoothly applying damage over time Assault is better than Build Up and Aim combined. My memory's not what it was, but has anyone argued that, ever? I think some amount of "burst stopper" is important. |
As for the amount I think it will make a noticeable difference based on my experience with Destiny. My AR/Dev Blaster has the Rebirth Radial Epiphany Destiny which provides 200%-600% regeneration while it is up (ignoring the first 10 seconds which have 1000%). Using this while playing I have noticed a strong impact from the Regeneration even towards the end of the 2 minutes when I'm only getting 200%. It doesn't stop me from dying if I take a lot of hits at once but it does but it does mean I quickly recover from those hits that I do take.
In theory this change should have a similar effect. The base level appears to be about 240% which then gets to about 350% enhanced. Given that and my experiences with Destiny I am expecting it to have a noticeable impact although I guess we won't know for sure until Beta.
I know I'm looking at a gift unicorn in the mouth and asking "do the teeth come in gold?" but how would it help/hinder if most blasts also buffed to-hit but 4% or so for a few seconds?
This way AwesomeSnipe would also work as Street Justice's Combo system. This would alleviate the complaints of those that say that some sets are at a disadvantage when it comes to snipping.
Actualy i am curious....
Is it just me...or does anyone notice this seams like alot of stuff that would IMprove PVP battles more then in game stuff?
I mean the concept of super jump and jousting witht he sniper shot....or flying while sniper shooting seams obvious as to why you would do that againast another player...wouldnt do it in the normal game much at all....
But the other effects seam to center around specific abilities I just dont see many people use too much....and weirdly I have seen them all used in PVP alot....hmmm...>_>
So I am thinking this can't be coincidental.
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Great to hear this and I love the idea that Regen won't help a Blaster against burst damage, but it will help him stay Blasting in a fight longer. I wasn't so sure about the +Regen before but I'm excited to try it now.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Well the thing is Blasters shouldn't be able to take large amounts of burst damage. Adding Regen does seem like a sensible change to me, it allows Blasters to stay in the fight longer and avoids the annoying downtime between fights.
As for the amount I think it will make a noticeable difference based on my experience with Destiny. My AR/Dev Blaster has the Rebirth Radial Epiphany Destiny which provides 200%-600% regeneration while it is up (ignoring the first 10 seconds which have 1000%). Using this while playing I have noticed a strong impact from the Regeneration even towards the end of the 2 minutes when I'm only getting 200%. It doesn't stop me from dying if I take a lot of hits at once but it does but it does mean I quickly recover from those hits that I do take. In theory this change should have a similar effect. The base level appears to be about 240% which then gets to about 350% enhanced. Given that and my experiences with Destiny I am expecting it to have a noticeable impact although I guess we won't know for sure until Beta. |
I am pretty enthused. Two of my oldest characters are /dev blasters, although only one has a snipe.
But both will really, really, like the improvement to cloaking device.
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You know, people have been saying this since I first started posting my scrapper secondary comparisons. If you can explain what this actually means, you will be the first in seven years.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
The Regen change is large, maybe larger than I realize, but I don't think it works right.
Arcanaville came to the Regen-equivalent number by looking at smoothly applying damage over time; |
Quote:
| if you are smoothly applying damage over time Assault is better than Build Up and Aim combined. My memory's not what it was, but has anyone argued that, ever? I think some amount of "burst stopper" is important. |
When players worry about Blasters becoming overpowered, I just hear the song from Oliver.
I'm happy that we're getting improvements, but ... please, sir, could I have some more?[/QUOTE]
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Color me very unimpressed. I dont need regen.. I dont have the resistance or the defense to take advantage of building health over time.
I think that the percentage to get off a faster shot is far to high...
The shot still is underpowered even though it occurs faster. I would rather have a stronger shot.
Why is Lightning Clap getting the buff ?? Really ?? Is that just a way to get people to take a power that most people just skip because it totally blows.. Why not put it in lightning field.. You put the Fire Manip buff in their toggle..
Increasing the range of the shorter blasts.. EXCELLENT>. best news of all this..
You DID however manage to make Devices a LOT better...
While this is a move in the right direction it feels like the totally wrong move..
I dont see how this will improve the majority of my blasters overall.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
And why not give Build Up for blaster the treatment that Inner Light for PB's got.. A burst in damage with decreasing damage over time ??? Why doesnt this make sense for blasters ??
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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I see where you're coming from but I think it actually makes a lot of sense. I see it like the mez protection powers in Defense sets. They generally aren't particularly interesting but they serve an important purpose and it's pretty much assumed that you'll take them. Now in an ideal world all Blaster secondaries would have them designed in from the start but coming in to add them later I think most of the power choices make sense. All of the powers selected were marginal powers in their sets. Some were more popular than others (Cloaking Device* and Conserve Power for example) but none of them are the critical must-have powers in the set. By adding a strong survivability bonus to them they now become must-have powers which is nice since most Blaster Secondaries are lacking in them. Now if they had added the Devices bonus to Targeting Drone instead of Cloaking Device I'd be in firm agreement with you.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I kind of feel like the ideas planned aren't fixing what people were seeing with Blasters either. I also don't like that a certain kind of fix is being added wholesale, to be honest. Slapping regen on powers (some of which are more or less desirable... Lightning Clap is a pretty crummy power even with the regen slapped on) feels like shoehorning a one size fits all approach to feet that are more diverse than that (sorry for the belabored analogy). I could go further as well... Cloaking Device is a no-brainer for any Devices player, but things like Chilling Embrace and Blazing Aura haven't been. I don't know that it's a good thing to suddenly make those powers required to get the "boost" to Blasters.
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On the specific powers you mentioned I do think some of them may need looking at. Chilling Embrace I think will work out ok, the increased range will make it easier for Ice Blasters to leverage the recharge debuffs to slow down incoming damage and make their absorb better.
For Lightning Clap I'd like to see the Knockback changed to Knockdown. It's still not a super awesome debuff but I don't think it should be. Changing it to KD at least means that Blasters can use it freely to buff their regen without having to worry about causing major disruptions on teams (I like knockback when it's controllable but PBAoE knockback tends to just cause problems). I suspect most /Elec Blasters will end up using the KB to KD IO Proc when it comes out but I'd still rather see it done automatically.
Blazing Aura is the one I do wonder about. For a Ranged Blaster it's ok, heck it's a little extra damage on anything that slips past. The problem is that Fire Manipulation is really a set designed for Blappers and having to run Blazing Aura in melee range is going to give them a lot of extra aggro. in many ways I think the bonus would be better on Consume except that doesn't come until level 28 while every other secondary gets their bonus at level 20 or lower.
*Yes, I consider Cloaking Device marginal. It's a popular power since it makes thematic sense for a lot of Devices characters and you can stick a LotG in it but at the end of the day it's only a slight buff over Stealth and if my Blaster were magically changed to have Stealth instead of CD I probably wouldn't notice.
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Because you believe you need a lot of defense and resistance to get any benefit from regeneration. Which is false, but its your right to believe it.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
I dont see how this will improve the majority of my blasters overall.
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Also, some sets are getting absorb instead of regeneration, and energy manipulation is getting energize. The changes will make every blaster I've ever created more survivable: that's obvious. Whether it will make them survivable enough is a judgment call that will require actual testing to know for certain.
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I am shocked kismets haven't completely sold out on the market yet. No biggie for me since I usually get them other ways, but I was expecting someone to gobble them all up by now.
The Bacon Compels You.
Quote:
I'm just reading through this thread now and hit this post, but it's worth repeating - It seems silly that Blaster's snipe would require special enhancements, slotting, etc., to benefit from as a class change, when Stalker buffs were given out (correctly) without any prerequisites.|
Originally Posted by Lightslinger
My main since I started playing in '05 is Lightslinger, an Energy/Energy Blaster.
I'm definitely thankful for the buffs, but I am concerned the devs will stop here and I'm fairly certain these adjustments alone will not bring Lightslinger in line with other ATs. The range increase for tier 3s is huge and I will be highly appreciative of that, good move. The snipe change is exactly what I wanted, but why require the +tohit? It seems odd that Stalkers simply got an AS that worked different in combat, why require Blasters to take additional powers, slot a Kismet, and use other powers in order to use the new Snipe? Seems like a great change, but the punitive measures that are taken in order for it to work weigh it down. If the devs intended this new attack to only be useable some of the time; why? The secondary power changes for survivability I'm not sure about. I'll definitely test them as best I can as soon as possible, but I'm not seeing how this will increase Lightslinger's survival that much. Blasters are such a low HP AT we will not see the most benefit possible from Regen. Overall I see these changes as benefiting other ATs MUCH more than they'll benefit Blasters. These changes will pull Blasters even further behind other ranged archetypes. If this is Phase 1 of Blaster buffs, I'm very, very excited by these changes and look forward to what's coming next. Lets get some real Blaster focused buffs. Unfortunately I've seen this dev team drop a lot of projects over the years and I fear Blasters may be the next project to go to the backburner, prove me wrong. |
I'm hoping this isn't the end we'll see for boosting up our favorite paper cannons, and that those boosts aren't tied to any additional requirements. It's also a little silly to see these buffs ported over to other ATs already - Lets let blaster characters feel special for a little while at least.
Edited to add: This doesn't make me want to build a blaster any more than before. Given the Tyrant trial encounter, I'm inspired to take a Corrupter through the levels to carry both buffs and damage. But these changes don't really make the AT more appealing. I'm hoping there's more so I can get excited to roll a blaster alt at some point.
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Blasters do not need to make any special slotting or enhancement changes to gain the benefit that sniper shots will get in I24. Unless they want to min/max the benefit. In which case, as with all min/maxing, you're on your own.|
Originally Posted by Paladin
I'm just reading through this thread now and hit this post, but it's worth repeating - It seems silly that Blaster's snipe would require special enhancements, slotting, etc., to benefit from as a class change, when Stalker buffs were given out (correctly) without any prerequisites.
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The only powerset combination that is unlikely to have either Build Up or Aim and thus may not be able to gain this benefit in some measure are AR/Dev blasters who have neither BU nor Aim. But their build burden is tiny and for that teeny change they end up with the best sniper option of any blaster, by a large factor.
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I just hope, should they decide this "is not enough" they don't cramp even more into these powers. I already don't love the idea that technically all blasters now will have one power in the secondary that is nearly mandatory unless you are suicidal. I would had liked to see this kind of buff be a bit more distributed.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Because you believe you need a lot of defense and resistance to get any benefit from regeneration. Which is false, but its your right to believe it.
Also, some sets are getting absorb instead of regeneration, and energy manipulation is getting energize. The changes will make every blaster I've ever created more survivable: that's obvious. Whether it will make them survivable enough is a judgment call that will require actual testing to know for certain. |
I am still a bit skeptical on these changes. Every time a dev says they are going to buff something its never enough. We have to beg and beg for years just to get what we were supposed to have at launch. Overall I do not see any of these changes truly saving blasters when they are in danger. At best it might slow down how long it takes to go from spawn to spawn but not something thats going to save us when the chips are down and you are just getting outright slaughtered by certain cheating npcs. I hate to say it but my only blaster I got to 50 was psi/psi despite the weak damage. It was the secondary that kept me going and playing it where as all the others wont be no where near as effective in that regard.
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I thought about it, but they were too expensive for something that can be created with one Hero Merit or 16 Astrals.
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Originally Posted by JohnnyKilowatt
I am shocked kismets haven't completely sold out on the market yet. No biggie for me since I usually get them other ways, but I was expecting someone to gobble them all up by now.
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Quote:
My question is: what is their goal? Regardless of how strong or weak damage is, how survivable do they want blasters to be? Do they want blasters to be more survivable than a stalker? Less? About the same? A notch under? Half as survivable as a stalker?|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I am still a bit skeptical on these changes. Every time a dev says they are going to buff something its never enough. We have to beg and beg for years just to get what we were supposed to have at launch. Overall I do not see any of these changes truly saving blasters when they are in danger. At best it might slow down how long it takes to go from spawn to spawn but not something thats going to save us when the chips are down and you are just getting outright slaughtered by certain cheating npcs. I hate to say it but my only blaster I got to 50 was psi/psi despite the weak damage. It was the secondary that kept me going and playing it where as all the others wont be no where near as effective in that regard.
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Note my curiosity is about their intention, not what we want or think is deserved.
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With Devices changes tho, getting the 22% tohit will be easy. So wouldn't they get a good bump out of it as well?|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Blasters do not need to make any special slotting or enhancement changes to gain the benefit that sniper shots will get in I24. Unless they want to min/max the benefit. In which case, as with all min/maxing, you're on your own.
The only powerset combination that is unlikely to have either Build Up or Aim and thus may not be able to gain this benefit in some measure are AR/Dev blasters who have neither BU nor Aim. But their build burden is tiny and for that teeny change they end up with the best sniper option of any blaster, by a large factor. |
DP, Ice, Sonic seem to be the sets that will not make out with these changes.
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Quote:
That's an acceptable compromise, sold!
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
I would think that a good balancing act would be to require everyone to do two things to get to (nearly) perma SpeedSnipe. So, pick two of the following:
1. Tactics 2. Kismet 3. Build-up 4. Aim 5. Some other ToHit buff in you primary, secondary, or pool powers. 6. Some new ATO or Proc or Universal IO Set that has +ToHit. If Blasters' Tactics were bumped to 10%, then everyone would be in the same boat. Although, Devices gets off easy since they'd only need one thing: Targeting Drone. |
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
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Quote:
Isn't that what I said?
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Originally Posted by BrandX
With Devices changes tho, getting the 22% tohit will be easy. So wouldn't they get a good bump out of it as well?
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We shall see, some of my builds will change since they "buffed" a secondary power which I skipped.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Blasters do not need to make any special slotting or enhancement changes to gain the benefit that sniper shots will get in I24. Unless they want to min/max the benefit. In which case, as with all min/maxing, you're on your own.
The only powerset combination that is unlikely to have either Build Up or Aim and thus may not be able to gain this benefit in some measure are AR/Dev blasters who have neither BU nor Aim. But their build burden is tiny and for that teeny change they end up with the best sniper option of any blaster, by a large factor. |
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
Quote:
You don't have to take it if you don't want to. Just like Regen scrappers don't have to take Integration. Conversely, if the buff is something the devs perceive to be necessary to improve the set, then if its spread out among many different powers only the players who take *all* of them will get the intended buff. Everyone else will not. That's often a worse problem.
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Originally Posted by Starsman
I just hope, should they decide this "is not enough" they don't cramp even more into these powers. I already don't love the idea that technically all blasters now will have one power in the secondary that is nearly mandatory unless you are suicidal. I would had liked to see this kind of buff be a bit more distributed.
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I am excited about the changes to snipes, T3 blasts and the possibility of less/faster gun twirling in DP/.
The survivability additions are a good idea in general, but maybe their placement could be adjusted or more proliferated.
Also, I really liked the tohit req for the fast snipes because it's very systemic and not as gimmicky as stacking marker buffs.
A hero's tohit can be buffed and debuffed, can be affected by friends, foes, inspirations and character spec.
This is cool.
I also know that the CoH playerbase is used to stacking everything all the time and not very fond of situational powers.
I have two /dev blasters (an archer and a beamer) so /dev getting some love is definitely something I look forward to.
More specifically, these changes further develop the different playstyle /dev always offered, so that's great.
What I fear though is that once other secondaries catch up via pool powers and IO slotting, /dev will be once again left behind.
Also, fast snipes will surely be great but they don't help /dev's case against other secondaries when it comes to boosting AoE attacks with BU.
One other issue I have with the changes is that the survivability enhancement for /dev going into Cloaking Device -Field Operative-.
Forcing me to run a stealth power that hides my hero to keep my regen on is not fun.
I would very much prefer to have the survivability bonus come in the form of a passive addition to the Defiance inherent
(as passive +regen or hot or absorb shield) so it is:
>> Available from lv1 on
>> Players don't become forced to take the same power on every build
>> And run it all the time
I don't mean to rant against the changes as I welcome them, but activating the same click boost every minute to keep my survival going is annoying and staying cloaked forever to regen is the opposite of fun.
Tanker, Brute, Scrapper and Stalker survival sets as well as shield buff sets and MM primaries show their age in design mindset.
I never liked having to take multiple buffs that I just keep stacked with little to no gameplay to them (toggles and passives) and click buffs that I need to maintain every x seconds.
I would rather not see blasters follow suit when there is new design work being done on the archetype.
Looking forward to the test drive on all my ranged heroes, but of course mostly to the /dev blasters.
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Obviously, all of this is without seeing the numbers and testing and everything they have planned going into this first wave of changes...
I do wonder about the +ToHit requirement for the Snipes as well.
I love how it works for Devices (creating that boost for that secondary), but I'm unsure about it for most other sets.
I'm really not a fan of how it's going to make Tactics such a desirable choice.
I'm not so thrilled about the snipe's potential being kept behind powers and/or inspirations.
I'm not against it. That'd be rather close-minded of me. I'm curious to see how it plays out, just using Aim and Build Up on those sets that have them... But I'm not convinced it brings the change to Snipes, and Blaster attack chains, that I feel could be the right way to go.
Generally, I'll hit BU or AIM at the start of combat. So, okay, if we open up with that and Snipe, we're not really gaining the new benefit... and then, when the snipe has recharged, we don't have the ToHit to make it the quick fire variant. (I'm just thinking through typing here) So, we then hit AIM (if we have both BU and AIM) and bam, we've got the quickfire Snipe. I guess that's rather nice. I'm just not certain. And, I'm certainly unsure about sets/combos without the two ToHit powers to alternate.
I like the idea and I hope it works. However, if it doesn't seem to play out quite so well, I hope they might have, or be open to, another way to obtain the quick fire snipe.
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