Thoughts on SSA 2 Episode 1?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-06-05 18:15 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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No.|
Originally Posted by Zombieluvr
Technically, he's only an attempted murderer, right?
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Given what we've seen of the Praetorian version of the Clockwork King, it's clear that he doesn't NEED an organic body to survive. He needs some kind of focus as his "body", but there doesn't need to be any life signs in it.
He's dead. He just doesn't realize it, and his power keeps his awareness intact and going. In a way, he's more like Numina's astral form, only less focused (thus the need for a host form) and FAR more powerful.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
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No, they'd put him on trial for savagely beating a SUSPECT to death (bypassing his right to due process), a suspect who posed no more immediate threat of harm and probably wasn't even resisting after a point. Most likely there would have been a certain period of time between "unconscious" and "dead" where Blue Steel, had he any self-control whatsoever, could have cuffed him and taken him in.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
Issues about Blue Steel not undergoing "due process..." When he assaulted the man who would become the Clockwork King, the criminal had already murdered several people, had murdered another and appeared to be in the process of mutilating the body WHILE THE BUILDING THEY WERE IN WAS ON FIRE AND COLLAPSING (in reality, CK was trying to revive the man he had accidentally killed, not understanding why he couldn't make the corpse work the same way his "toys" did, or he was trying to perform CPR in a manner that made it look like he was attacking the body). This was obviously somebody dangerous, violent, deranged and had displayed that he controlled a vast army of ugly, mishapen minions who were an obvious threat to the average citizenry of Paragon. Blue Steel still roaming the streets after beating the Clockwork King ALMOST to death is hardly that surprising. Considering the fact that CK was a cop killer (huh, CK, still...) at the time, they probably would have thrown Blue Steel a parade if he could confirm the kill. (I know, I know... NO they wouldn't throw him a parade. They would send him to counseling and therapy, but otherwise, he'd be okay. It's hard to villainize his actions when his Defense Attorney just has to say "Okay. Give me the 'pro-cop killer' argument, then.") |
He wasn't even present for the deaths (they were reported to him over the radio), and upon hearing that (while the Clockwork were in retreat), HE initiated hostilities with Russell; he didn't even wait for backup.
Police are invested with the authority they have because it's expected that they'll use it responsibly, and be professional, even in life-threatening circumstances. Anything less is an abuse of that trust. He should have handed in his badge for that. At least it's a good thing that someone with a temper like that doesn't carry a gun.
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By that rationale, Citadel is dead, then. He's sentient, aware, intelligent, but he doesn't have an organic body. I think that, in the world of Paragon at least, you'd have some difficulties proving such a being was dead, or had been murdered when they're still out walking around.|
Originally Posted by Rabid_M
No.
Given what we've seen of the Praetorian version of the Clockwork King, it's clear that he doesn't NEED an organic body to survive. He needs some kind of focus as his "body", but there doesn't need to be any life signs in it. He's dead. He just doesn't realize it, and his power keeps his awareness intact and going. In a way, he's more like Numina's astral form, only less focused (thus the need for a host form) and FAR more powerful. |
That being said, the fact that Blue Steel, a supposed paragon of law and justice, didn't turn himself in to be tried before a court of his peers and allow them to make the call whether he had committed any crime or not, is kind of a travesty. Even if no prosecutor would take the case (lack of evidence, only a confession, no victim filing complaints), it is the very least Blue Steel should have done. The fact that he apparently didn't, and doesn't seem to harbor much in the way of regret for his actions, makes him a rather unappealing "hero" to me.
I think the simplest explanation is that Paragon City's legal system realizes it exists only at the sufferance of its heroes, so they didn't push it too far.
Heh, since I am playing a reformed villain stalker, I wanted to Assassin Strike Penny. Oh wait.....
I didn't really like it much, I think its from Penny overload. Thanks for the hero merit. 
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Heroes are the real menace. THE MALTA GROUP WAS RIGHT!
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Originally Posted by Green Bean
I think the simplest explanation is that Paragon City's legal system realizes it exists only at the sufferance of its heroes, so they didn't push it too far.
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I think the ACTUAL issue is that people have this unusual expectation of CoX emulating real life. I mean, I've never heard of a villain NOT just going to straight to the Zig BEFORE going on trial, and I believe stuffing someone in maximum security prison before a conviction is a violation of some rights.
Or the fact that Lord Recluse has made an open declaration of war against the USA and there's been absolutely zero reprisals.
I could go on.
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Manticore and Penny have changeable dialogue depending on whether or not you actually arrest the Clockwork King instead of letting him off with a "boys will be boys." If you beat up Penny's brass boyfriend she won't speak to you directly in the choose an ally part, she just turn's to Numina and talks's ABOUT you. Manticore will have a much higher opinion of you under the circumstances. And during the fight with CK earlier, Penny will just stand there saying things like, "Stop it! Both of you!"
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Originally Posted by Haetron
Fifth Mission: Nice part at the beginning of being able to choose a team member. I chose Posi. I think he got killed by mobs, never saw him do much. Didn't care for how BaBs was written here, and after having Manticore lecture me, I was ready to have my character punch him in the face. Go out into the mission, annnnd. |
_________
@Inquisitor
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Maybe Lord Pyre(?) just thinks she's really sexy wearing it, even after all these years. I really dug that part of her background. Love conquers all, or at least sends the bad guy to his island retreat.|
Originally Posted by Haetron
Wavelength was an interesting contact. Her design looks like something you'd see from ages ago, fittingly. If she's retired, Im kinda wondering why she is still in costume, and other than her contact info, I dont think its mentioned she's ex-phalanx.
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| Fifth Mission: Nice part at the beginning of being able to choose a team member. I chose Posi. I think he got killed by mobs, never saw him do much. Didn't care for how BaBs was written here, and after having Manticore lecture me, I was ready to have my character punch him in the face. Go out into the mission, annnnd. |
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| Thing goes straight to the toilet with the reappearance of the Crappies of Crappance. Seriously sick of these retarded looking things. Chicken Clamor manages to kill the feelgood I was having for the entire arc. |
The one thing that really stands out, is how much more fun the new SSA seems compared to the death march that was the last one.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
More a case of "Characterization Marches On..."
Clockwork King started as an inhuman enemy, one we could just beat up and not feel bad about doing it. Then the Devs gave him a girlfriend and an exciteable personality. Now all Hell has broken loose. |
And then Penny comes along. Not only doe she not judge him for being a villainous monstrosity but the silly girl actually befriends him. I'm sure I've seen this story before, all that we were missing was Angela Lansbury as a singing teapot.
Like I said upthread, I ran the SSA as Opposite Reaction, the parking violations version of Blue Steel. Law, order, and reading busted AV's rights. And even she didn't have the heart to take a swing at CK after listening to him and Penny, because for that moment he wasn't a giggling lunatic brain in a jar. Penny had actually coaxed his humanity back, and I didn't have the heart to take him in. I'm Lawful Good, not Lawful Stupid.
And who knows? Maybe Ray Bradbury was right, love really is the answer to everything.
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
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This, ALLLLLLL of this. Why do people see the CK acting like a person and not a lunatic brain-in-a-jar as character derailment?
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Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
He was never inhuman to begin with. I don't see it as much as stumbling into development as the foundation was there from the beginning: An exiled freak of society, who picked up a gallon of haterade for heroes and their society for putting him in that place to begin with. And then Penny comes along. Not only doe she not judge him for being a villainous monstrosity but the silly girl actually befriends him. I'm sure I've seen this story before, all that we were missing was Angela Lansbury as a singing teapot. Like I said upthread, I ran the SSA as Opposite Reaction, the parking violations version of Blue Steel. Law, order, and reading busted AV's rights. And even she didn't have the heart to take a swing at CK after listening to him and Penny, because for that moment he wasn't a giggling lunatic brain in a jar. Penny had actually coaxed his humanity back, and I didn't have the heart to take him in. I'm Lawful Good, not Lawful Stupid. And who knows? Maybe Ray Bradbury was right, love really is the answer to everything. |
Because no one plays the Synapse or Lady Grey Taskforces where he actually appears.
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He's doing basically the same thing in the LGTF that he does in the beginning of the SSA. The Rikti nabbed his girlfriend, those blasted heroes are allegedly rescuing her, why of course he's going to handle this rationally. Heck, he broke into Fort Trident to save Penny from the heroes.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
Because no one plays the Synapse or Lady Grey Taskforces where he actually appears.
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I'm not saying he's Captain Stability. I'm saying he's not the Jack Nicholson Joker either.
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
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Oh of course. It's obvious he's not completely stable. What it is is that he's afraid of losing the one person he likes and who actually treats him like a person. I had the warm fuzzies when Penny was telling him in SSA2.1 that she was a hero now and had responsibilites, and to his credit, he sat there and listened and heard her out.|
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
He's doing basically the same thing in the LGTF that he does in the beginning of the SSA. The Rikti nabbed his girlfriend, those blasted heroes are allegedly rescuing her, why of course he's going to handle this rationally. Heck, he broke into Fort Trident to save Penny from the heroes.
I'm not saying he's Captain Stability. I'm saying he's not the Jack Nicholson Joker either. |
To me currently it's probably my favorite moment of 2.1, and I honestly think the devs will be hard-pressed to match it.
Yea, I kinda ignored Manticore's lecture. The Zig has a painfully low villain retention rate, and besides, swooping in and reinforcing his Russel vs. The World mentality would have been the nicest thing you could have done. Just standing by while Penelope Yin took him down a notch... that was mean.
Overall, I liked this one much better than the first one. I only had two problems, and only one was actually mission related. The final mission had no map, which made tracking your FP ally very difficult. I lost Numina right when I hit Clamor, I dunno if she got distracted by a shiny Freakshow somewhere or she couldn't figure out how to path up to the base of the Atlas statue.
The second issue was... what genius decided to give yet another AV flight?! Diabolique was bad enough with her hiding in the bones in the top of the Mot-sewer, Clamor likes to fly up so high that my henchmen couldn't actually hit her. Finally cornered her on Atlas' right knee and finished her off, but honestly it doesn't add anything but frustration to the fight. Overall though, much much better than the previous SSA.
This one was alright. Felt a bit weird to have so much focus on Penny Yin, and Clamor turning into a chicken made me laugh out loud, but yeah no real complaints here.
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Actually they'd give him two weeks' administrative leave and then settle with the suspect's family out of court for $150,000 or so.|
Originally Posted by minimalist_NA
No, they'd put him on trial for savagely beating a SUSPECT to death (bypassing his right to due process), a suspect who posed no more immediate threat of harm and probably wasn't even resisting after a point.
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I quite liked both of the arcs. Any time I'm given the option to either get or refuse help they have done far better at stroking my ego than they ever could with the trite-as-ever "Good thing $player is here to save us!" dialogue. By that I specifically mean the constant back-patting, the rest of the dialogue is fine with me. The hero version had a good challenge level for a level 36 scrapper, I ran the villain version with an incarnate so expecting a challenge from it would have been unreasonable of me. It really seems like they're honing the best tricks of Who Will Die while adding an equal measure of new ideas.
I knew Penny was untrustworthy!
So easily (Mass) Confused...
From our duo RSF.
Citadel has defeated Numina
Penelope Yin has defeated Positron
Penelope Yin has defeated Back Alley Brawler
Penelope Yin has defeated Citadel
Relentless Desire has defeated Psionic Nexus
Penelope Yin has defeated Manticore
You have defeated Penelope Yin
You gain 220,201 infamy.
You received Uncanny Insight.
You received Evolution: Reduced Recharge.
You received Regenerating Flesh.
You received Invention: Range (Recipe).
You received Enhancement Converter.
You gain 69,250 infamy.
You gain 96,000 infamy.
You have defeated the Freedom Phalanx!
You received Synthetic Centriole Exposure.
Think I'm going to be doing LRSF a lot more from now on 
Also:
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Because I want bags of xp, inf and drops.|
Originally Posted by Issen
This, ALLLLLLL of this. Why do people see the CK acting like a person and not a lunatic brain-in-a-jar as character derailment?
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If clicking through dialogue gave me bushels of rewards I'd be re-running Dr. Graves non-stop. My job involves constant reading and parsing for errors and slips, City of Heroes served me better when it was "Point here, shoot that and move on."
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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Good news, everyone! 96% of the game's content is still exactly that. I'm sure you'll somehow survive the throwing of a couple bones to the not-insubstantial part of the playerbase that appreciates that aspect of the game and a little bit more.
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
Because I want bags of xp, inf and drops.
If clicking through dialogue gave me bushels of rewards I'd be re-running Dr. Graves non-stop. My job involves constant reading and parsing for errors and slips, City of Heroes served me better when it was "Point here, shoot that and move on." |
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It's not here just to serve you |
Originally Posted by Neuronia
City of Heroes served me better when it was "Point here, shoot that and move on."
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Does this new SSA give a souvenir? I know that each part of SSA1 did and that's how I could tell which ones I had done on my different characters. I just completed the new one, but I don't see a souvenir and I'm wondering if it's a bug.
City of Gaymers
Adversity/Animosity
Ran both sides a couple times - overall, I enjoyed them both. GJ Devs!
On the Blue side, I found Wavelength a little too patronizing for my tastes, considering
I saved the frickin' world from RuluWade just a little while ago, but I figure, she's
getting on in years and maybe isn't quite up to date on events, or she's a little senile
(in a grandmotherly sort of way, of course).
I had fun on the blue side running it differently. The first time, I was nice to Russell,
Manticore was pissy with me, and Penny thought I was cool. The second time,
I gave Russell a good smackdown, Penny went all pouty and whiny on me, and
Manticore heartily approved and thought I was cool.
Their reactions made me laugh. 
On a down note, I took Manticore as my helper both times, and if he ever showed
up at all, I never saw him -- I assumed it was just stupid AI being stupid, but it
would've been nice (if unneccessary) for the "helper" to actually show up. Meh.
On the red side, I found the plotline more intriguing, and I give my villainous self
a congratulatory "Atta Boy" (pun intended) for coming up with such an ambitious
plan, if I do say so myself -- maybe I picked up a thing or two from Darrin Wade
On the other hand, I *know* the devs aren't gonna let me keep and use my shiny
new toy, so I'm certain I'm gonna have to seriously slap someone in the storyline
future when they lose my "yacht" on me. 
I hope the devs make that a satisfying task when the time comes.
All said, both sides were fun, overall.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Hmm...
Seems I don't see that anyone else mentioned this, but Pandora's Box was in the first CoH novel.
Cole and Richter drank from the Well, an actual fountain they found. Then investigated the water that fed it, they found a chamber where the water flowed into a mysterious black box and out of it again into the fountain. When they opened it a lot of energy was released. Later when fighting his first villain he noticed that same energy was in the villain.
It seems to me that the box contained the power of the Well, and opening it released that power. Probably opening it before led to the time of the Greek gods and heroes. So does closing it again draw that power back in, even if only slowly? Has someone found it and opened it again, releasing more power?
FireBrandi - Champions lvl 50 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster - Tier 4 Alpha
Kim Paler - lvl 50 Crab Spider - Tier 3 Alpha
My DA page
I've only had time to play through red side, but kudos! For once my villain feels like a villain and not a henchman/thug. Also, I want that Kirby dot-esque aura that Castillo and Clamor had.
Of course in true villain alliance fashion, I'm sure my "partner" is planning to kick sand in my eyes and steal my "toy" from the sandbox.
@Sylver Bayne
Pinnacle Server
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Honestly, he always struck me as more paternal than anything else. He's the clockwork King and she's his little clockwork princess. His dialogue in the Rikti Warzone was definitely "overprotective dad"-mode.|
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
He's doing basically the same thing in the LGTF that he does in the beginning of the SSA. The Rikti nabbed his girlfriend, those blasted heroes are allegedly rescuing her, why of course he's going to handle this rationally. Heck, he broke into Fort Trident to save Penny from the heroes.
I'm not saying he's Captain Stability. I'm saying he's not the Jack Nicholson Joker either. |
Which is funny of course since Penny has a living dad, but still.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
Clockwork King started as an inhuman enemy, one we could just beat up and not feel bad about doing it. Then the Devs gave him a girlfriend and an exciteable personality.
Now all Hell has broken loose.
Anyway...
Issues about Blue Steel not undergoing "due process..."
When he assaulted the man who would become the Clockwork King, the criminal had already murdered several people, had murdered another and appeared to be in the process of mutilating the body WHILE THE BUILDING THEY WERE IN WAS ON FIRE AND COLLAPSING (in reality, CK was trying to revive the man he had accidentally killed, not understanding why he couldn't make the corpse work the same way his "toys" did, or he was trying to perform CPR in a manner that made it look like he was attacking the body).
This was obviously somebody dangerous, violent, deranged and had displayed that he controlled a vast army of ugly, mishapen minions who were an obvious threat to the average citizenry of Paragon.
Blue Steel still roaming the streets after beating the Clockwork King ALMOST to death is hardly that surprising. Considering the fact that CK was a cop killer (huh, CK, still...) at the time, they probably would have thrown Blue Steel a parade if he could confirm the kill.
(I know, I know... NO they wouldn't throw him a parade. They would send him to counseling and therapy, but otherwise, he'd be okay. It's hard to villainize his actions when his Defense Attorney just has to say "Okay. Give me the 'pro-cop killer' argument, then.")
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Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.