Summer Event Preview Live!!1
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-05-14 24:05 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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It is unique.
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Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
I notice it doesn't say the set is Unique. Can you slot it into each power you wish to change the KB on?
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*sigh*
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Originally Posted by RevolverMike
It is unique.
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The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
*sigh*
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Yeah, I felt that way yesterday. Was excited about finally leveling my NRG/NRG blaster to 50.
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Well, let's compare.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
But it's pretty clear to me that the only people who really "hate" Knockback are the people who like to play the few AT/powersets that really lose effectiveness when critters are scattered around. I tend to hate built-in weaknesses in my characters like that so I don't usually bother to play those gimped powersets that encourage you to have silly fears about Knockback. *shrugs*
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The "few" powersets that lose effectiveness when critters are scattered around:
1. All melee ATs.
2. Anyone using targeted enemy-group-based buffs/debuffs (Fulcrum Shift, Heat Loss)
3. Anyone using location-targeted AoE effects (Tar Patch, Shadow Field)
4. Anyone using AoE effects in general, for that matter
5. Anyone with short-range ST ranged attacks in regular rotation suddenly finding their targets knocked out of range.
Powersets that benefit from having targets scattered all over creation:
1.
...
Of course, I'm making a number of assumptions, like "competently built character" or "smart player" or "decent attack chain" or "cares about killing enemy groups efficiently so that Citadel TF doesn't last twice as long as it has to". I am willing to concede that those assumptions may be unjustified, given the content of the pro-KB posts.
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..I-I can take shockwave on my stalker? I don't know what to say :')
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Originally Posted by Liquid
Thank you for adding this. I've wanted it for years.
I think the first thing I'm slotting it in is Wormhole. Then I'm going to take Shockwave on my Claws Scrapper. Then I'm respeccing back into Energy Torrent or Explosive Blast (haven't decided which) on my Energy/Energy Blaster. Oh my god. Hand Clap. I'm going to start taking Hand Clap again. |
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
And, of course, the assumption for knockback is always "all over creation" and never "wielded like a scalpel". This first is a player problem, the second is an art.
Just like an incompetent herder gets the team killed, and a great one maximises AoE damage, a bad knockback user makes things needlessly difficult, while a good one makes sure than no one gets close enough to the squishy types to melee them, or does trickshots on runners to have them land just where it'll hurt them most in another second.
And frankly, I've got more defeats that can be attributed to a bad herder than knockback. The number is 15, more than that and they spill over to the rest of us. And stop running all over the place, the enemy group is right there all bundled up already, just make them point away from us and let the AoE carnage happen.
I'd much rather have a Storm Summoner that has mastered knockback on the team than a Brute who thinks he's soloing. A Master Storm Summoner is one of the most awesome spectacles in the game. I wish I was that good with Storm... Maybe when Water Blast arrives, I'll try another Stormer.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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"scattered around" were Lothic's words, not mine. As were "lose effectiveness".|
Originally Posted by McNum
And, of course, the assumption for knockback is always "all over creation" and never "wielded like a scalpel". This first is a player problem, the second is an art.
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At best, your "scalpel-like precision" is only losing effectiveness for yourself by, for instance, hitting fewer targets because you are wasting time positioning and/or by hitting fewer targets by herding ones at the edges. It's also losing effectiveness for your team by making up, imperfectly, for a critical lack in some other team component, as you implicitly admit (competent aggro management, speedy damage, etc.). It's a team slot that could be more efficiently filled by a brute, for instance.
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You should sell tickets for this slippery slope of yours. Seriously.|
Originally Posted by McNum
Knockback is a tool, one that has been nerfed repeatedly in the last year or so. Every time it becomes useful in some way, it gets nerfed. You notice that lava doesn't do damage to anyone anymore? That's because knockback became useful, even somewhat powerful. Can't have that. So bye-bye verisimilitude, lava is now harmless.
And now this abomination of an IO appears. If I had the Inf, I'd buy every single one that came on the market and destroy it. The fewer of these that exists, the better. It unbalances several powers that were dependent on their knockback to be allowed to be that much more awesome, like Tornado and several AoE attacks. But the worst part is, if this IO becomes even slightly common, it becomes a "requirement". Not officially, of course, but as you said, why not slot it in Crane Kick (except for losing the awesome "Kick badguy off high building" finishing move)? It's the "optimal" strategy. And that is terrible. Especially if it becomes a widespread idea. There's already too much unjustified stigma against knockback, this will not help that, at all. It will only make that problem worse. Much worse. What we need is MORE knockback. Useful knockback, though, none of this "chance to" stuff. And stuff to knock enemies into, other than the Scrapper. We need knockback, a standout feature of CoH, to be awesome. The ability to affect Archvillains would be a nice place to start. Knockback is the only status in the game where a mag 10,000 protection exists. Why is that? It's not like there's anything dangerous left to knock anything into. That's nerfed already. Frankly, I'm sorely disappointed that this IO even made it out of concept stage. It's such a bad idea, it should have been rejected outright. So many balance issues coming up... And the worst possible thing? That this means that knockback will never get looked at properly, and turned into what it could have been. Knockback is a superheroic staple. It should have been front and center from the start. The solution to the knockback "problem" is not to be able to switch knnockback off, it's to make knockback useful and desirable in several situations. |
What, exactly, is wrong with creating a method for making previously undesirable powers wanted again? Doing what you suggest would require way more balancing than adding a simple IO, and consequently would have a greater chance of getting screwed up in the process.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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*cough* Incarnate Trial Bosses *cough*
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Originally Posted by McNum
Knockback is the only status in the game where a mag 10,000 protection exists.
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Stop using logic! Let him flip out already gees |
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
You should sell tickets for this slippery slope of yours. Seriously.
What, exactly, is wrong with creating a method for making previously undesirable powers wanted again? Doing what you suggest would require way more balancing than adding a simple IO, and consequently would have a greater chance of getting screwed up in the process. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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nice!!!|
Originally Posted by positron
the conversion (knockback to knockdown) happens 100% of the time; if the power you slot this in does not have knockback in it then it adds a proc to do knockdown.
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YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
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There's that word again "undesirable".|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
You should sell tickets for this slippery slope of yours. Seriously.
What, exactly, is wrong with creating a method for making previously undesirable powers wanted again? Doing what you suggest would require way more balancing than adding a simple IO, and consequently would have a greater chance of getting screwed up in the process. |
And yes, what I'm suggesting will take more time to get done, but it would be a lot better to get it right, rather than this attempt to sweep the problem under the rug. Plus, this IO has the potential to create several new problems on its own, as some of those "undesirable" powers could end up vastly more powerful then intended. So what do you do with outliers like that? Nerf the power or the IO? "Letting it be" is not an option as that makes this IO "required" for those powers, making a rather large disparity between the minimum and maximum potential of that power. Something we've seen over and over to be changed in this game.
Adding this IO to the game has the potential to become a lot more balancing work than just adding another IO. This is the kind of IO that gets powers nerfed. Or alternatively, gets made redundant by power buffs.
This IO will cause more problems than it solves.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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team with who you want to team with and play the way you want to. But dont get mad because I play differently and dont want to team with you.
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Originally Posted by McNum
At the expense of others? No, never.
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YMMV---IMOIce Ember
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I know the feeling TJ, I hated the Kane Halloween event with the "forced" 4 player teams. I can't count how many times I would get a "player" who would just doorsit on that event. |
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Yes, and as usual you completely ignore the fact that there are people in this game that DO NOT TEAM. Not just exceptions for small teams, not just exceptions for large teams, not just exceptions for leagues but NO TEAMING AT ALL.
And as usual, you chose to respond to someone you KNOW does not team with an insipid comment that "it's a small team event". For anyone wondering, this post has been heavily edited multiple times before hitting Submit Reply. The first 4 versions were much harsher. Those versions also would have required moderator action. When people purposely make responses like that because they know it will bait me into responding, they get what they get. |
I would prefer that the devs refrain from this "forced" team event model and give us more choice. YMMV
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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I agree, finally I can turn some awful powers into pure gems by simply changing KB to KD.
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Originally Posted by Ice_Ember
I just cried... with happiness.
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H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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And since you are neither psychic nor have any factual basis for your claim............|
Originally Posted by McNum
There's that word again "undesirable".
And yes, what I'm suggesting will take more time to get done, but it would be a lot better to get it right, rather than this attempt to sweep the problem under the rug. Plus, this IO has the potential to create several new problems on its own, as some of those "undesirable" powers could end up vastly more powerful then intended. So what do you do with outliers like that? Nerf the power or the IO? "Letting it be" is not an option as that makes this IO "required" for those powers, making a rather large disparity between the minimum and maximum potential of that power. Something we've seen over and over to be changed in this game. Adding this IO to the game has the potential to become a lot more balancing work than just adding another IO. This is the kind of IO that gets powers nerfed. Or alternatively, gets made redundant by power buffs. This IO will cause more problems than it solves. |
I would suggest that you chill with your conspiracy theories and thread hijack and let it get back to it's original topic, but then all you would probably do is start an entirely new thread to spread your unwarranted doom....
We get it... you like KB but guess what.. A LOT of people don't. This IO will not affect your playstyle unless YOU let it. Morons exists in this game who will (supposedly) kick people for any reason....this will not make people more moronic. If people threaten to kick you or not team with you because you don't have this IO... it's their loss. Instead of claiming DOOM maybe you should set a positive example on the benefits of KB in game....because frankly from my experience very few people can actually do that. those who do use KB in an advantageous way I applaud...those who don't... I 1 star and never team with again....I love the rating/note system.
**FYI... 7 years and I have NEVER seen someone kicked for PROPERLY using KB. I have never seen someone not picked for a team because they do KB.** I have no clue what server these people play on.. or who they are teaming with....
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I am holding off on watching the videos of the summer event... I seen the screen caps from the Player Summit...and want to experience it first hand for the first time when I play it. I am glad that 1. it is 4 people and not a league and 2. that it scales up to level 50. I realize it is the summer event, but been trying to think when they will roll this out.. end of June??? Middle of July??? I want it now
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Man you people find some awful teammates. I PUG 90% of the time and rarely run into 95% of the issues that people on the forums do. Did the kick option not work on the Halloween event??? I never needed to use it, but if someone were door sitting... I would have.
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Originally Posted by newchemicals
I know the feeling TJ, I hated the Kane Halloween event with the "forced" 4 player teams. I can't count how many times I would get a "player" who would just doorsit on that event.
I would prefer that the devs refrain from this "forced" team event model and give us more choice. YMMV |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Thank you for adding this IO to the game.|
Originally Posted by Positron
The conversion (Knockback to Knockdown) happens 100% of the time; if the power you slot this in does not have Knockback in it then it adds a proc to do Knockdown.
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Please consider adding other methods of converting knockback to knockdown on low level characters.
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When I do find myself in a good enough mood for teaming, it's usually just my husband and myself. I generally take steps to make sure I am unavailable for teams (not that I can't slip, trip and fall into a team if I had the desire to, I simply don't have that desire.) because I just don't like talking to people. |
Originally Posted by newchemicals
I know the feeling TJ, I hated the Kane Halloween event with the "forced" 4 player teams. I can't count how many times I would get a "player" who would just doorsit on that event.
I would prefer that the devs refrain from this "forced" team event model and give us more choice. YMMV |
TJ, I feel your pain. I will probably end up skipping this event too as long as the minimum and maximum is a team of four.
Also, I could care less about knockback.
i have to say i am interested in the summer event, both for the potential badges, and for this extremely tantalizing piece of sweet IO lol
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aaand bazam, I just figured out where I'm gonna put that thing. |
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
For their sake, I hope anyone who didn't instantly think "claws scrapper!" upon seeing that IO at least thought "claws brute!" instead.
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Looking forward to the event in general, I had lots of fun with the Halloween one!
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
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I agree to an extent with this post, but since I've seen 2 really good KB users and thousands of bad ones in my time in CoH, I think the devs really need to cater for the large majority.|
Originally Posted by McNum
And, of course, the assumption for knockback is always "all over creation" and never "wielded like a scalpel". This first is a player problem, the second is an art.
Just like an incompetent herder gets the team killed, and a great one maximises AoE damage, a bad knockback user makes things needlessly difficult, while a good one makes sure than no one gets close enough to the squishy types to melee them, or does trickshots on runners to have them land just where it'll hurt them most in another second. And frankly, I've got more defeats that can be attributed to a bad herder than knockback. The number is 15, more than that and they spill over to the rest of us. And stop running all over the place, the enemy group is right there all bundled up already, just make them point away from us and let the AoE carnage happen. I'd much rather have a Storm Summoner that has mastered knockback on the team than a Brute who thinks he's soloing. A Master Storm Summoner is one of the most awesome spectacles in the game. I wish I was that good with Storm... Maybe when Water Blast arrives, I'll try another Stormer. |
Hurriherding (with TK as a backup on a mind/storm) is an amazing thing to watch when done well, but on an open plan map a stormie can be a nightmare.
I applaud this IO.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
Actually thinking the IO will be nice for Assault rifle since M30 Grenade is one of the few Radial Knockback (where it knocks everyone away from the target, rather than the player) which means even normal means of mitgating knockback aren't useful and slotting the IO will makes the power much less annoying.
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU