Blueside: Alternate Starting areas or Level bump stuff?

With the pummit came a lot of ideas for revamping the zones, we had the thread full of ideas and of course we had the panel itself which shed some light on where the devs were thinking.

So, it got me thinking.

The lower levels skip by -really- fast now a days. You can skip from 1 to 10 in a matter of a couple hours, if not 20 minutes via a DFB run or two. And even with the loss of Galaxy City, blueside is still -very- bottom heavy.

We've got Atlas of course, new one and only starting hub, but following the Habashy and Shining Stars arcs usually drops us off around 8 or just shy of it.

As was noted at the pummit, that kind of leaves King's Row out in the cold since its level range is only 5-10. And you get directed there via Twinshot, but only to give you the police band and a couple instanced missions. I'm not sure you can even get referred to any contacts here except via Radio.

Then we've got the Hollows and Perez Park (And the completely forgotten Sewer Network). Perez, as a hazard zone, is pretty empty except the odd street sweeper and hunting an instance door (Or the even rarer badger and/or Monster Hunter). The level range is at least appropriate, 7-14, so if Perez Park had story arcs it could flow right in from Atlas.

And there's the Hollows, which go 5-15 so they're another fairly easy flow to point, which actually has contacts and arcs!

Or of course there's always the option of grinding up a couple more levels and just skip straight into Skyway and/or Steel Canyon (or, y'know, DFB. I'm just going to keep that as an underlying/implied alternate to everything at this point).

So, it seems like the victim content in this is King's Row. The speed of leveling just means that this zone is a bump on the radar anymore.

Ergo. What would -you- do? The simplest options seem to be either extending the level range of the zone so we're not shooting past it, making it like the Hollows as a place to flow into after finishing Atlas, or it could be the 'new' Galaxy. -Drop- the level range so it's 1-10 instead and offer it as an alternate starting point to Habashy/Twinshot.

There are pros and cons to both approach of course.

Extending the range means that, while King's Row is 'preserved' as a viable zone to head to but it also means that it starts stepping on other toes. The 10+ range has Skyway, Steel, and the Hollows too, with the former extending up to 19. Maybe it isn't a problem, I'm a firm believer in variety but at the same time, you can have too many options and content will start getting overlooked or ignored (Hollows is a fairly decent example actually, a lot of folks skip it) Too much redundancy is just one of Blueside's major problems. Steel, at least, has the new 15-24 arcs so that might be a possible flow from Atlas (7) -> King's Row (15) -> Steel and so on.

Dropping the range would give players fresh out of tutorial an alternative to Atlas. It would have to get the same treatment Atlas got though, an arc similar to Habashy with some 'zone event' style trappings to cut down on the instanced missions. Bit more work than simply lowering some numbers though we could have whatever is in place introduce into the contact chain which could provide a smoother flow into 10 and the following zones than Atlas currently provides. Again, variety is good, atm you're kind of pigeonholed into Habashy and/or Twinshot, street sweeping, or DFB. Something else would be nice.

Of course if you don't even want to concern yourself with keeping it a lowbie area the level range could be drastically altered and maybe just add another arc to Atlas to push players to 10 and let them run on. Though I kind of like it as a low level area for it's 'crime alley' feel, it's a wonderful lower middle class sort of urban area and I don't think you could keep that pushing up the range. Maybe into the 10-20 or 20-30 but those ranges already have -tons- of content to do and I think anything in 30-50 would be 'too big' for the feel.

Or there's doing something with Perez, adding a story arc and possibly tweaking the level range. As a hazard zone it's completely empty so may as well do something with it and again it doesn't have to stay as a lowbie area. Or the sewer network. LOL. oh who am I kidding with -that- one >> Then again nothing stopping Devs from doing stuff to Perez and King's Row together.

Anyway, what do you guys feel as the best path for the Devs?

Edit: Realized there was a less destructive way to do this!

Maybe the Midnighters (since they have a time-travel crystal) could offer some missions in 1930s KR. They can send you there during/after Steel Canyon. Maybe something combining phases and the shadow paths in First Ward could be used so that you've got 1930s KR missions in the existing KR zone. They could also specifically send you to certain historical badge locations, like the one where Statesman interrupted a Circle of Thorns ritual. Maybe you can go back and actually be part of that event!

At the very least, the KR contacts need an overhaul. Half of them start out by giving you missions to see other people in other zones before giving you a couple (literally, 2; OK, maybe some have 3) missions in KR. The other half end their "arc" by giving you missions to see other people in other zones. I'd like everything in KR to be about KR.

If we keep destroying city areas it's going to stop being City of Heroes and become Blasted Wasteland Over Which Heroes Battle Villains For The Fate Of The World.

One problem with Kings Row is that it's a Skulls territory. They're bottom of the pile, so it's hard to raise the level of Kings Row even a little bit because either the Skulls would have to become a REALLY major player, or they'd have to go away. Or you'd fight them at level 30 or something and it would be ridiculous.

And that problem of not being able to destroy Kings Row (with the devastation of the city fast becoming a tiresome fallback anyway) is also the reason why it would be hard to displace the Skulls with a way more powerful group; we'd end up with YET ANOTHER huge warzone.

I say they should take a two stage plan. First, rebuild Perez Park. Remove hazard zone status and inhabit it with civilians again. Even better, this can follow a story arc of the whole place being hit with a massive heroic hammer and pacified so survivors of Galaxy City can resettle there. Then, there's somewhere for the Skulls to go when Phase 2 happens, the revamp of King Row.

In order to have high-level stuff without the place being a doomy warzone of doom (again), you want a more subtle storyline. Hello Crey! Hello Hero Corps! Hello Longbow! Have Kings Row get cleared out by a more powerful faction that are outwardly friendly, so the zone isn't just IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF PARAGON CITY THERE IS ONLY WAR, but lots of conspiracies and plans are happening under the surface. It's home of the PPD HQ after all, there's a lot of reasons to score brownie points with the PPD and/or be trying to infiltrate or corrupt their command structure, and do good PR for yourself.

I'd like it to become a 25-34 zone like Croatoa, so I have a non-magical option in that range to play with. Sometimes beating up pumpkins gets a little too weird for my toons.

Kings row has a few options it can play with as theres a few features in Kings that stand out.

Power substations - The place is littered with pylons and substations making it a prime place for Deathsurge to invade the city. Lets flood the place with Gremlins and Voltic Sentinals.

Factories - Kings is a full of factories and mills, most of them old, disused or rusting. Maybe for the natural peeps to do, is quieten rioting factory workers who are angry about the Galaxy City citizens coming in and stealing their jobs. Old factories could be torn down and a rebuilding project could start to house the influx of Galaxy refugees. Maybe their could be a culture clash as Old Galaxy tries to intergrate with Kings.

PPD headquarters - Maybe make this place a major story hub, and give Blue Shield a long overdue place in the game. Maybe a low level prisoner revolt, or Clockwork finally get Paladin in working order and attack the HQ (like the Warwalker assult in Apex's trial)

Ouroboros - Kings is an old part of the city. It has a statue to the hero Breakneck, and have had major problems with CoT's in the past. I think even the family may have had an operation there once BEFORE the Freedom Phalanx was established. It would be nice to replay these things and take a part in the very deep lore in the game, plus it would be a great way for toons to have their first taste of time travel (thereby getting the portal) without waiting for someone to pop one open during a TF. Plus it would be nice to see Positron, Synapse and Sister P before they became super heroes. It could even be in memory of how the phalanx began.

I'm completely AGAINST touching Kings Row. It's not that zone that's in a pinch, it's Atlas Park. The new Atlas Park is horrendous and a place I run out of as son as I can, so I can run Kings Row as soon as I can. I'll usually street-sweep until level 5 because the LFG queue does not work, and then ship off to KR to run Scanner missions and get a contact that way. Atlas Park is bad enough, I seriously do not want to lose one of my last few viable options.

I firmly believe that the developers need to stop "fixing" zones that are already just fine and they need to stop removing content I like and replacing it with the kind of stuff that pollutes Atlas Park. If they want to revamp zones, let them revamp hazard zones that have no content in them.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Honestly I'm pretty happy the way it is. Right now I can level one character in Atlas > Hollows > Steel > etc. My next character can run a DFB > Kings > Steel > etc.

I'm not doing the same content over and over again per character. That normally kills alt-itis in other MMOs for me.

I like the gritty feel of Kings Row and have nostalgic feelings for the zone. I'm against any revamp that significantly changes the zone. Revamping the contacts to clean up the mission lists and get rid of the "run and talk to this other contact yonder and far away" and have the missions all be in Kings Row is something I would like to see. Newer content that focuses on showcasing a zone, such as Cimerora or Croatoa or the RWZ or the Hollows or Striga (get the picture?), or that occurs within a single zone for convenience, such as the Midnighter entry arc, is popular. It's convenient and showcases the zone and is something I'd like to see most of the older content revamped for.

I strongly support making KR 1-10 and making it a gritty starting area of gangs and slums

/signed for KR. However bpphantom's views aren't too different from my own.

As an alternative starting zone or as the follow on from Atlas, Kings Row needs a revamp, graphics and content - probably the only gemoetrical changes would be the newer style trees and bushes, but the old building and street textures should be switched for sharper higher resolution ones.
Content-wise, the old launch content there can be shifted to Ouroboros, and replaced with the new post-GR style of dynamic joined-up storytelling - maybe with a slight increase in the level range of the zone.
Positron has mentioned that he's had his eye on a KR revamp to make the transition from Atlas smoother, so I think that there's a pretty good chance that it'll be getting some kind of improvement eventually.

I would prefer to the see the Kings Row contacts revamped and have their arcs run from 5-15 or 5-20. The zone itself is all right as-is, though I suppose some areas could spawn enemies (in the same factions and configurations as now) up to 15.

I would also like to see Steel Canyon's level range raised dramatically, with the change to Kings Row missions, along with the Hollows and possibly a revamped Perez Park, filling the gap that the change to Steel would leave.

I do not want to see another starter zone. There would not be sufficient time to appreciate the zone were it to be home to a 1-5 arc. I also get the impression that an important dev shares this opinion and would veto any attempts to create another starting area. I believe the stated opinion was that it "splits up the player base," but it's been a while.

I also don't want to see Kings Row become a co-op zone, which is, honestly, the only way any zones are likely to experience signficant change from now on.

Independence Port is the next guaranteed revamped zone. I don't believe it'll be co-op, either. I guess it'll need the revamp since two certain people are/were there.

I have to agree that KR can use some changes, but I also agree with Sam that the tone of KR shouldn't be changed.

I'd also like to add an additional suggestion, that whatever changes get made if a zone isn't turned CO-OP( which KR SHOULDN'T be) that Villains get a new SF dealing with/interacting/causing some of those changes.

Aside from graphical improvements, I'm not too keen on revamping Kings Row.

The only thing I'd really change is to make Paladin a fight players should get invested in. Right now, there's no point to fighting him aside from the Reward Merit he drops. It's only stopping him from getting built that gives you any real rewards. But if Paladin gave up some serious goodies and only showed up every few weeks or so, it'd bring people to the zone.

I'd also ramp up the level in the back of the zone which used to connect to Galaxy City (no idea where that goes now) so that you can spend more time in the zone with no danger of outleveling stuff so quickly.

The dev suggestion of KR as a perma-night zone might be a bit extreme, but making it a perma-rain zone would be awesome - if they could find a way to transfer the rain from mission maps to whole zones
It'd be a way to make it more visually unique, but without needing an explanation like perma-night would need.
Another option - or one that could be used along with perma-rain - would be to turn down the brightness of the KR war walls - plus using the newer glow tech to make more neon signs.