Hand clap (and clones)

Handclap (and, I believe, thunder clap, from elec melee/manipulation) - PBAOE knockback. No damage. Just a "Get away from me" power.

I like knockback in general - I think most complaints about it really fall into "it's being used improperly," and in most non-pet cases I'll argue for it.

But this little family of powers... I'm just curious. Does anyone actually use these? I know they're not just in brutes/tankers, as my first experience with it was on my Elec/Elec blaster back in issue 3. I think it was one of the reasons for my first respec, as well. (Or maybe it was my first time on test - but I'm fairly sure I had it on live.) I've never used it since. And thinking about it, I can't think of a time I've seen anyone *else* use it. (I don't mean NPCs... frigging Imperious....)

So, yeah, out of wild curiosity - does anyone use this regularly (for more than "hey, look, level 1 Hellions! Let's make them fly!") and how?

(Yes, this is one power - well, two or three in total - I'd be *perfectly* happy turning from pure radial knockback into knockdown with stun and, oh, a bit of -res or damage.)

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I used and liked Hand Clap...especially for concept reasons. I only respec'd out of it for min/max purposes.

The best use I got out of it...was in building missions (or where ever else this occured)...where spawns are spread out just enough to be out of footstomp range. So I would run to the initial group and hand clap them back into the group behind them to get the most out of aoe. (since Brute Taunt only gives the initial target -range and not all 5 enemies).

That was the only actually (mechanically speaking) use I got out of it beside it being very conceptually friendly.

I can't remember ever actually needing the power for any "breathing room" purposes.

That being said...if I could take just one more power for my build...it would be Hand Clap.

I'm actually surprised to get a positive response, and have it be the first one!

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I occasionally use it on my SS/SR brute to try and push mobs together.

I used to occasionally use hand clap on my fire/storm troller in conjunction with flashfire.

It doesn't get a whole lot of use on my other storm trollers because I have so many other more effective crowd control/debuff powers I want to use.

Hand Clap was the reason for my very first respec on my Inv/SS tank way back when the only way to get a respec was from the trials. I didn't realize it didn't do damage, and once I also realized it knocked enemies away from me, I definitely didn't want it. Invuln and knockback really don't mix very well. Though, conceptually, it made perfect sense for my SS tank to have it.

I wish we had Statesman's version of it (or maybe a bit of a toned-down version of his Hand Clap,) though I would still rather it only do knockdown instead of knockback.

i like the power animation but i hate the kb and sheer lack of dmg when NPC hand claps do more dmg than my knockout blow (yes i know they use boss/EB/AV modifiers)

i think the main reason i dislike the power is it being both no dmg and knockback


if it had dmg then i could live with the knockback, if it stays without dmg then it should be changed to knockdown

I used Fault on my Stone Melee/WP brute. It does knockdown + disorient.

In the before times, when Energize was still a Conserve Power clone, I used to use Lightning Clap on my elec/elec brute if I was taking too much DoT to use Aid Self. That was all I used it for, though, and he no longer has Aid Self, so...

To think back when many of the Armors would root you to the ground for Mez protection.

I do find handclap useful for something, but I won't mention it.

The closest thing I have used to Hand Clap is Gale from the Storm Summoning. It is a bit different from PBAoE KB because it is a cone KB that does extremely minor damage (which lets procs trigger). However, I have it one slotted with accuracy to improve it's horrible accuracy. I use Gale in only two real occasions:

#1: If there are a bunch of enemies around a dead guy who needs to be rezzed, I will use Gale along with Hurricane to beat back enemies before I mezz them.

#2: During trials where I need to move enemies away from terminals or some other jazz, I'll use Gale to push them away. On the keyes trial it is quite effective.

I actually like handclap and lightning clap. If I remember right slotted for stun you can perma the stun effect. I used it all the time on my concept tanker (ss/invuln based on a Troll no toggles outside of invincible. I especially like to use it when unstoppable and other such tier 9 crashing powers are well crashing.

Once upon a time, the powers were rather good emergency buttons. Even for tanks- if someone on the team was getting piled on, and there were too many to taunt, or taunting didnt get the aggro, you could use handclap and it gave your team mate plenty of time to escape and recover or run far enough away to drop aggro. Granted this wasnt one of those things that happened all the time, bu it did happen, especially on very small teams like duo's or trio's.

Unfortunatly, back then, there were very hardcore outspoken min max players, and I mean outspoken, that would RAGE when someone used knockback and messed up there tightly grouped AOE herd. As the game has basically evolved to accomodate that type of play- the limited use for handclap has pretty much dissolved into nothing.

I would agree with others that no dmg= change it to knockdown. That is the only simple solution I see to fix it, as adding dmg would potentially overpower Super Strength by giving it two aoe powers. There are other things one could do, like make it a short wide cone attack, but that would mean a lot more work then simply changing the knockback magnitude.

My 2 cents

I use Lightening Clap consistently on my Energy/Elec/Fire blaster "Fusiondebt"

She's built specifically FOR AOE KB and Lightening Clap, Energy Torrent, Explosive Blast, Thunder Strike, and Bonfire are all 6 slotted with Kinetic Crash.

I built the character on a lark because Fusionette is the annoying queen of NPC knockback.

As I played her I found out just how survivable all that KB made her (been nerfed to near oblivion due to KB suppression though). It was fun, above average for survivability, got lots of chuckles and kudos from teammates, and went 1-50 pretty fast.

I use it on my Ice/SS tank. Can give a breather to the swath of people who over aggro mobs.
It is also a tribute to Statesman (wouldn't mind having his version of the power even if I agree it would make SS even more nuts) for me.
Finally, it keeps me busy during Hami Raids while the league is assembling (footstomping is too cliché)

I used to take it on my SS Tank specifically to have something to use during Rage crash. I'd slot it with 3 Perfect Zingers (including the proc) for the +Regen, the Triumphant Insult proc and the Explosive Strike and Force Feedback procs. If the damage procs hit they aren't affected by the -Dmg from Rage and it cleared baddies away from squishies that are nearby.

However it turned out to be more trouble than it was worth in the long run. I don't take Unstoppable any more because it's too situational. Hand Clap is the same way. If the Devs made it KD (never gonna happen...with Stomp SS is the best Melee set out there) I'd be all over it even without damage.

As it is it fits firmly in the 'skippable' column for me.

My Elec/Shield would KILL for it to become KD instead of KB. KILL.

Maybe something they look at when they finally port SS to scrappers and thus fix it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Fault costs less end and recharges 10 sec faster, has the same acc and radius and does disorient and kd. At least is animates slower.

Actually didn't expect this many people to say they took it.

It's interesting, as I tend to support knockback on most other sets (yes, even solar flare - being squishier for most of its life, it makes sense to me for the PB to have a damaging "get away from me" power. So, EG and I disagree, and all is right with the universe... ) but mostly because I end up saying "... and direct it *into* controls or *into* the tank."

Looking at it from a tank POV, I couldn't see it as being useful (and I see some agreement there - or "not as useful as it could be") because, well, I *want* those mobs there in my mud pots/burn patch/fire aura/other needs-enemies-to-buff power. Some mention "getting stuff away from people who overaggroed," but I see that and think "well, that's what Taunt is for." (Again, tank POV. Little different on others.)

Of course, the point's also taken for the "give me a second to use Aid Self," too.

In any case... interesting points of view. Thanks much.

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can you load it with procs for damage?