Rumors about new Star Trek 2
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-05-01 09:35 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Quote:
Indeed, if this is a divergent timeline and the old timeline exists, then if Spock Prime wants to return to where....or should I say "WHEN" he belongs, then all he needs to do is go to the Guardian of Forever. It should surely be able to lock onto the proper timeline and send him home. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
The new time line didn't destroy the old time line. Star Trek has always had multiple time lines. Mirrored Universe is like a fan favorite.
|
Also I've theorized before that if they had wanted to undo that stupid death Kirk had in Generations that the Guardian of Forever is the best tool for that job too. Spock could scan the time frame of Kirk's fight with Soran and then figure out when to step in and phaser blast Soran. They then safely stop the missile and Kirk lives. But way too late for that now, unless they decide to CGI de-age and slim down Shatner.
Quote:
Would you rather have Berman and Braga still running the show?
|
Originally Posted by Lothic
You realize that by extension you are pretty much saying you will never watch another new Star Trek movie again, ever, regardless of who makes it. Unless you know of a way to bring Roddenberry back from the dead any new Star Trek that's -ever- going to be made in the future is going to have to be made by someone else. Imagine where we'd be if people had decided to stop producing Shakespeare plays after his death just because he wasn't around to supervise them.
 Now I'll be the first to tell you that I think Abrams has made some serious blunders with the franchise and it's very clear he doesn't have a completely firm grasp on what he's doing with it. He's a skilled movie maker but he's almost completely clueless about the historical details of Star Trek. It's a weird scenario, but for all Abrams' faults there are some good things buried in his mess and for the sake of getting to enjoy newly created Star Trek material I'm going to continue to give him a chance. I look at it this way: Even if Abrams is not the perfect caretaker for the franchise he's at least carrying the torch right now for future storytellers. Perhaps someday someone better will be able to take over who'll benefit from Abrams' current efforts of keeping the franchise alive. |
Quote:
I didn't necessarily say that either. To be honest I don't really have anyone specific in mind right now who would be the perfect "caretaker" for the franchise. As we all know the fans will probably never accept any one single person's vision 100% anyway.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Would you rather have Berman and Braga still running the show?
|
For what it's worth I do think Abrams is an accomplished and competent film maker - I simply think he lacks the detailed knowledge and understanding a person who's been devoted to this specific franchise for years would have. Perhaps if he were willing to work with other people who could provide him that detail he lacks his next Star Trek movies won't look so "outsiderish". It's not that I hated the last movie - it's just that it came off a bit like a movie about motorcycles produced by a person who's great at making movies in general but who has never ridden a motorcycle himself, if that makes any sense.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
Quote:
Perhaps JMS or Whedon should helm Star Trek? Could be interesting to say the least.
|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I didn't necessarily say that either. To be honest I don't really have anyone specific in mind right now who would be the perfect "caretaker" for the franchise. As we all know the fans will probably never accept any one single person's vision 100% anyway.
For what it's worth I do think Abrams is an accomplished and competent film maker - I simply think he lacks the detailed knowledge and understanding a person who's been devoted to this specific franchise for years would have. Perhaps if he were willing to work with other people who could provide him that detail he lacks his next Star Trek movies won't look so "outsiderish". It's not that I hated the last movie - it's just that it came off a bit like a movie about motorcycles produced by a person who's great at making movies in general but who has never ridden a motorcycle himself, if that makes any sense. |
Quote:
I know the franchise went off the rails under their direction, but their earlier work for TNG actually did produce some good episodes.
|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Would you rather have Berman and Braga still running the show?
|
Goodbye, I guess.
@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online
nightblade7295@gmail.com if you want to stay in touch
If they make Trek 3, they need to use Gary Seven and the Guardian to prevent the Temporal Cold War from screwing up the timeline further. Oh, and there has to be a saving of the Air Force guy while we're at it. Oh, and we gotta make sure that Zarabeth gets a visit from Spock, and Mr. Atoz is dealt with. All while the Talosians have gotten desperate and have actually ventured forth from their planet to capture breeding stock, but the Doomsday machine is barreling down on their planet. And during that, somehow, the Romulans get all uppity and use their cloaked ships to take out San Fransisco, and the UFP's representatives from all worlds.
And then Q shows up and says "now, how in the HELL am I ever going to match wits with Picard and Janeway while all you idiots are screwing up things?", snaps his fingers, and Gene Roddenberry and Gene Coon are resurrected and right the ship called The Franchise. Whereupon the movie then explores predjudices based on skin color (Black on the right side vs left, but with a female as the 'convict', and her and the cop kiss, which up to now was a major taboo for TV...) while Charlie X somehow gets Rand to love him, so he doesn't go all ape****, and the Feds convince him to be a cool person and do things for him.
They find Trelane, of course, and then they use Charlie to battle him... when the Catspaw people decide both of those idiots need a talking to. But then Spock's brain is taken away, and Kirk disappears to be a buzzing sound...
Then the Borg show up and assimilate them all, finally bringing the end of the franchise.
And tribbles somewhere. Can't forget the tribbles.
Yeah, you know you want to revisit and mash all that together. It'll be epic and awesome, cubed.
/Borgified Tribbles. Resistance is futile, you will be assimmilated... through CUTENESS.
//Unless you're a Klingon, in which case, we'll just beat you up then assimilate ya.
///Imma pitch this, think I got a shot?
////I probably left out a couple of good ones. I couldn't figure out how to insert Garth of Izar in there, but he could be part of the works...
/////Maybe this all is what drove him into the funny farm.
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
If the Borg were tribbles at least they'd be marginally interesting.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
Honestly, watch those two movies, especially The Enemy Below and tell me that it doesn't mirror that episode.
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
You're being picky. The TCW version was a Battleship-equivalent. And the Enterprise is cruiser-weight.
|
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
I say if there's a 3rd movie, the main villain ought to be the Dominion.
Because they are somehow aware of the change in the timeline. Knowing how things originally turned out, they decide to make a pre-emptive strike on an Alpha Quadrant that is not at all ready for them.
Quote:
My father in law is a little senile too, so sad. |
Originally Posted by Draugadan
I love Star Trek.
I will not be seeing any Trek movie made by Abrams. |
Off topic, but something that always bothered me about WoK - Ceti Alpha VI exploded, and messed up the environment on Ceti Alpha V, right? But why would the Reliant think CA5 was CA6? It was still the fifth rock from Ceti Alpha, right?
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
Quote:
There's no evidence the Guardian of Forever is capable of transporting people to alternate timelines or even viewing them directly. When Kirk and Spock go back in time to undo McCoy's changes, they ask the Guardian to replay Earth's history. The Guardian did not ask "which one?"|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Indeed, if this is a divergent timeline and the old timeline exists, then if Spock Prime wants to return to where....or should I say "WHEN" he belongs, then all he needs to do is go to the Guardian of Forever. It should surely be able to lock onto the proper timeline and send him home.
|
Moreover, if the Guardian was aware of alternate timelines, Kirk and Spock could have simply asked it to transport them to the unchanged one instead. They could have asked it to simply return McCoy before he changed anything, as it was obviously able to return Kirk and Spock without them traveling back to the Guardian.
Quote:
|
Also I've theorized before that if they had wanted to undo that stupid death Kirk had in Generations that the Guardian of Forever is the best tool for that job too. Spock could scan the time frame of Kirk's fight with Soran and then figure out when to step in and phaser blast Soran. They then safely stop the missile and Kirk lives. But way too late for that now, unless they decide to CGI de-age and slim down Shatner.
|
The best tool for that job is obviously Spock's brain, given the events of The Voyage Home.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
While I agree the number of "unforced errors" in Abrams Star Trek were higher than they should be, I don't think they were higher than that produced by people who really should have known better for past movies, and I will trade that level of error for a good movie that revitalizes the series than a movie that the hardcore nit pickers give the thumbs up to that ends up being watched by nobody.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
I didn't necessarily say that either. To be honest I don't really have anyone specific in mind right now who would be the perfect "caretaker" for the franchise. As we all know the fans will probably never accept any one single person's vision 100% anyway.
For what it's worth I do think Abrams is an accomplished and competent film maker - I simply think he lacks the detailed knowledge and understanding a person who's been devoted to this specific franchise for years would have. Perhaps if he were willing to work with other people who could provide him that detail he lacks his next Star Trek movies won't look so "outsiderish". It's not that I hated the last movie - it's just that it came off a bit like a movie about motorcycles produced by a person who's great at making movies in general but who has never ridden a motorcycle himself, if that makes any sense. |
When I consider what gets nit-picked about the Lord of the Rings trilogy and the Harry Potter series, I think Abrams did far better with Star Trek than anyone had any reason to hope for.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
No one's arguing that Abrams made a Star Trek based sci-fi movie in 2009 that wasn't financially successful. I'm simply arguing that what he made was almost not technically a Star Trek movie in the traditional sense either.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
While I agree the number of "unforced errors" in Abrams Star Trek were higher than they should be, I don't think they were higher than that produced by people who really should have known better for past movies, and I will trade that level of error for a good movie that revitalizes the series than a movie that the hardcore nit pickers give the thumbs up to that ends up being watched by nobody.
When I consider what gets nit-picked about the Lord of the Rings trilogy and the Harry Potter series, I think Abrams did far better with Star Trek than anyone had any reason to hope for. |
I'm sadly willing to accept the possibility that we have evolved past the days of being able to create a "pure" Star Trek movie/show that the "nitpickers" would accept that would ALSO be financially successful at the same time. It has been 40+ years after all - I guess something has to change.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
Quote:
I'm not saying it was merely financially successful. I'm saying it was also a good enough movie for the bulk of the fans, and I found it perfectly acceptable as well. I believe that its only as divergent from "traditional Star Trek" as Star Trek II was, and only revisionist history about that particular movie makes it seem less so.
|
Originally Posted by Lothic
No one's arguing that Abrams made a Star Trek based sci-fi movie in 2009 that wasn't financially successful. I'm simply arguing that what he made was almost not technically a Star Trek movie in the traditional sense either.
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
I'd be all over an updated Terran Empire Movie. Actually raise the stakes by actually have it be an invasion from the Mirror Universe and Have Kirk and Mirror Universe Spock eventually stop the whole thing.
Quote:
The difference between Abrams Star Trek and the past movies, imo, has been that all the TNG movies have felt more like extended TV episodes/Made for TV movies, than a made for theater movie.
|
Originally Posted by Lothic
No one's arguing that Abrams made a Star Trek based sci-fi movie in 2009 that wasn't financially successful. I'm simply arguing that what he made was almost not technically a Star Trek movie in the traditional sense either.
I'm sadly willing to accept the possibility that we have evolved past the days of being able to create a "pure" Star Trek movie/show that the "nitpickers" would accept that would ALSO be financially successful at the same time. It has been 40+ years after all - I guess something has to change. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
As I said I'm prepared for a future where any "new" Star Trek is going to look more like Abrams' mass appeal vision than it does Roddenberry's. Doesn't necessarily mean it's ever going to motivate people like me forget the difference no matter how inevitable the evolution of the franchise becomes. Fortunately people like Abrams can't "revise" the DVDs I already own. *shrugs*
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm not saying it was merely financially successful. I'm saying it was also a good enough movie for the bulk of the fans, and I found it perfectly acceptable as well. I believe that its only as divergent from "traditional Star Trek" as Star Trek II was, and only revisionist history about that particular movie makes it seem less so.
|
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
Quote:
I didn't say you'd agree, just that I myself wasn't saying that the "evolution" of Trek to something completely different wasn't reasonable, rather I was saying I don't see the reboot as substantively radical in difference from the series relative to the other movies were.
|
Originally Posted by Lothic
As I said I'm prepared for a future where any "new" Star Trek is going to look more like Abrams' mass appeal vision than it does Roddenberry's. Doesn't necessarily mean it's ever going to motivate people like me forget the difference no matter how inevitable the evolution of the franchise becomes. Fortunately people like Abrams can't "revise" the DVDs I already own. *shrugs*
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
For what it's worth I never once claimed that the pre-Abrams' Star Trek movies were the best movies ever made. They had plenty of problems of their own. Perhaps it's just a matter of being used the old-style established stupidity. Abrams introduced a different flavor of Star Trek stupidity which simply made it very easy to conclude that what he did was ultimately a "pale imitation" given the context.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
The difference between Abrams Star Trek and the past movies, imo, has been that all the TNG movies have felt more like extended TV episodes/Made for TV movies, than a made for theater movie.
|
Maybe in 20 or 30 years when someone else "relauches" Star Trek again we'll collectively look back at JJTrek as the "better" Trek and laugh at the upstart in the same way.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
Quote:
I'll accept the idea that as a group the pre-Abrams Star Trek movies did differ from each other in significant ways. As a simple example ST1 and ST2 were quite different from each other. I'll simply disagree with your view that Abrams' Trek wasn't uniquely divergent from that original grouping. Perhaps you're simply far more forgiving of these kinds of details than I am.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I didn't say you'd agree, just that I myself wasn't saying that the "evolution" of Trek to something completely different wasn't reasonable, rather I was saying I don't see the reboot as substantively radical in difference from the series relative to the other movies were.
|
Please don't get me wrong - like I said before I don't outright hate what Abrams did to Star Trek. Someone, somewhere needs to carry the torch of the franchise. I'm just not yet blindly willing to say JJTrek = Star Trek. Give me a few more decades and I might be able to let the obvious distinctions blur a bit more.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
Quote:
Just my opinion, but I don't even see all of the pre-Abrams Trek as coming from the same school either. ST:TMP is more of a grandiose high concept space adventure. II, III, and UC are more conventional dramas. IV and V are more off-beat. The TNG movies look like they were attempts by the Voyager writing team to make TNG look bad. Generations is Generations. There's no question in my mind that not only is Abrams Trek better in terms of overall production value, but its a better Trek movie than every TNG movie besides First Contact including Generations, and a better Trek movie unambiguously than at least III and V. The rest are more debatable, specifically on the basis of being good Trek movies, not just good movies in general.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
For what it's worth I never once claimed that the pre-Abrams' Star Trek movies were the best movies ever made. They had plenty of problems of their own. Perhaps it's just a matter of being used the old-style established stupidity. Abrams introduced a different flavor of Star Trek stupidity which simply made it very easy to conclude that what he did was ultimately a "pale imitation" given the context.
|
Ignoring production and general entertainment value, I think in terms of "conventional trekiness" I see Abrams Trek existing on the same rough tier with Undiscovered Country, First Contact, and Search for Spock; with TMP, Wrath of Khan, and Voyage Home probably higher, and everything else lying slightly to significantly lower.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Again it's easy to pick apart differences in the various Star Trek show/movies that predated Abrams' involvement. Despite all that it is terribly easy for me to see unique differences in Abrams' vision to all that which has come before. Sorry, it just is. Just because you can make a case that Star Trek has never been a monolithic entity does NOT automatically justify or legitimatize what Abrams has done.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Just my opinion, but I don't even see all of the pre-Abrams Trek as coming from the same school either. ST:TMP is more of a grandiose high concept space adventure. II, III, and UC are more conventional dramas. IV and V are more off-beat. The TNG movies look like they were attempts by the Voyager writing team to make TNG look bad. Generations is Generations. There's no question in my mind that not only is Abrams Trek better in terms of overall production value, but its a better Trek movie than every TNG movie besides First Contact including Generations, and a better Trek movie unambiguously than at least III and V. The rest are more debatable, specifically on the basis of being good Trek movies, not just good movies in general.
Ignoring production and general entertainment value, I think in terms of "conventional trekiness" I see Abrams Trek existing on the same rough tier with Undiscovered Country, First Contact, and Search for Spock; with TMP, Wrath of Khan, and Voyage Home probably higher, and everything else lying slightly to significantly lower. |
Star Trek may have become a "collection of visions" over the years. Doesn't mean I have to blindly like Abrams' version of it or accept that his is better than others just because he's the latest to the party. For what it's worth it took me a few years to finally accept TNG as Star Trek back in the 80s. *shrugs*
If Abrams manages to create several more Star Trek movies that establishes a broader picture of what he's trying to do with the franchise I'll probably be more willing to accept him into "the family" so to speak. All he is now is someone who threw out a single movie against the decades of canon that have existed before him. I'll give him a chance once he -earns- it.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
Quote:
Just as your opinion carries the same equal weight towards illegitimizing Abrams Trek.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Again it's easy to pick apart differences in the various Star Trek show/movies that predated Abrams' involvement. Despite all that it is terribly easy for me to see unique differences in Abrams' vision to all that which has come before. Sorry, it just is. Just because you can make a case that Star Trek has never been a monolithic entity does NOT automatically justify or legitimatize what Abrams has done.
|
I'm not going out of my way to construct a case. That's just how I see it intrinsically.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
I really should do something about this signature.