Rumors about new Star Trek 2

I don't see Abrams as illegitimate. I see him as naive and unseasoned in the role of Star Trek's standard-bearer. I'm still willing to let him prove himself. That's just how it is, period. No one has to make a case for an obvious fact.

If Abrams actually sticks to it and doesn't get into the rut of simply "recycling" older Trek (which sadly he might already be doing given that this second movie is apparently going to be some kind of rehash of the first ST2 movie) then maybe I'll be willing to cut him the slack that others seem to think he already deserves.

P.S. And before you nitpick the idea that ST2 was just a "recycle" of Space Seed I'll point out that if JJTrek2 just turns out to be a "rehash" of ST2 then our great Abrams will just be making a "ripoff of a ripoff" for his second Trek film ever. Not a very hopeful way to progress in his Star Trek career after going through so much effort to create a new Star Trek sandbox for him to play in is it?

They probably noticed, but I doubt they'd care much..

More than likely they are just sitting back and laughing at it all.

Heck, they could be directly or indirectly responsible.

Hey I wouldn't doubt it, knowing them.

Maybe they were bickering amongst themselves again, and caused the Romulan Sun to supernova..

That is, if I remember that Voyager story arc properly, where the Q were having a "civil war" of sorts, and it caused stars to explode..

It was the ultimately Iconians who were responsible for the Hobus Supernova going all weird, according to... a certain source.

There was the recent comic mini series: Khan Ruling in H==l that showed what life was like on Ceti Alpha 5 before and after Ceti Alpha 6 exploded.

I think that Alpha 5 and 6 had orbits that kept them on opposite sides of the sun thus when 6 exploded the shockwaves would reach Ceti Alpha 5 and shift its orbit until it was in the same orbital path and distance that 6 was. I think that was how they explained it.

Overall though, they were still pretty sloppy to not know a planet was missing from the star system and it was pretty insane for the Federation to not quarantine the system to ensure that Khan never escaped. They couldn't possibly have believed that Khan would have stayed content for his life ruling Ceti Alpha 5.

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I'm not sure I'd say JJTrek was as bad as Bay's "Transformers without the giant robots" but I would definitely agree it was at least closer to that extreme than Roddenberry's vision. Let's just say Abrams let a bit more of the "no attention span MTVism" into the mix than I really cared for. Much like the Devs often do for CoH I think Abrams over-corrected for some of the traditional stuffiness of the franchise and made something a bit too watered down and derivative. Sure it sold tickets for the one movie but that's far from proving Abrams has what it takes to lead the franchise in a meaningful direction. The second Star Wars trilogy sold a lot of tickets too but that didn't really make it "better" than the first trilogy for many, many reasons.

My main concern now is that Abrams is already playing the Kahn card. I thought he was supposed to be this masterful movie maker - is doing a "rehash" right after the obligatory "reboot" really the direction the Star Trek franchise needs to go? When is he going to be brave enough to actually give us something original and/or unexpected that makes sense? Wiping Vulcan off the galactic map was the twistiest twist Abrams could come up with so far and that was basically the jarring equivalent of permanently cutting Superman's right arm off - sure a writer could do that but it'd weirdly crossed a line that should never have been crossed.

Ultimately I'm just left with this strange sensation that I just let Abrams borrow my proverbial car (in this case my affection and understanding of the Star Trek franchise) and he took it for a joyride the same way he imagined young Kirk would have been stupid enough to have driven a car off a cliff. I suppose we'll now have to wait until the third movie to see what Abrams can -really- do with the franchise.

I read a review of the Avengers movie written apparently by one of the six people on Earth who didn't like the movie whose basic thesis revolved around two assertions:

1. Its a shame that Joss Whedon was forced to make the movie we saw, because he lacks the skill to know any better or do any better.

2. Its doubly a shame that the ignorant masses will flock to the movie, ensuring that we'll just get more of the same.

My reaction to that review is basically this: on the one hand projecting taste as objective review is unfair, but its an argument you simply cannot win against someone convinced of their position. On the other hand, the consolation prize is that its an argument you don't have to win either.

Happening to be in the vast overwhelming majority doesn't mean you're right, any more than being in the vanishingly small minority means you're wrong. But it does mean you can relax a little and let someone else attempt to fight (what they believe to be) the good fight for a while. Which is another way of saying I don't myself have to wait or plan to wait for the third movie.

Ironically (for you at least) I do not share the same point of view on The Avengers vis-a-vis Whedon's involvement with it. I think Whedon did a reasonably masterful job producing a movie that sat comfortably within the constraints the "established comic book" based story called for and he deserves all the praise of his financial success. I honestly don't believe The Avengers was the best comic book movie ever made, but it was certainly better than many that have come before and it deserves to make however many hundreds of millions it'll end up making.

As for JJTrek all of your dismissiveness about my position on it is fine and well. It still can't undo the non-subjective fact that all we've gotten from Abrams so far is the obligatory reboot and now a rehash of what was probably the most commercially successful Star Trek movie before Abrams' involvement. Not exactly blazing terribly new or unexpected ground so far. Playing things safe and easy seems to be the mantra so far.

Sure Abrams might make something surprisingly wonderful out of his second stab at the franchise. But even if he does it looks like we're going to have to wait at least until a third movie to see anything genuinely unique and/or non-expected from him.

As I said before I don't think Abrams is incompetent as a film maker in general. I simply believe now more than ever that we're going to have to wait until his involvement in the Star Trek franchise is long over before we can truly assess if he was something good or bad for it. Sure Abrams might prove genius at drawing millions of dollars out of it for his studio bosses, but as with my allusions to Lucas just because you can make something (a dead horse?) generate more profits doesn't necessarily guarantee that every fan must (or will) like what you're doing with it.

Perhaps I'm just waiting for Abrams to give us the Star Trek equivalent of Midichlorians...

Actually, the only thing I'm being particularly dismissive about is the notion that you believe that to be an objective, and not a subjective viewpoint. I've made no other comment about your viewpoint except that I don't share it. The fact that you are inferring anything else is not my problem.

What on earth gave you that idea?

The really sad thing about redoing Khan is that given that ST: Nemesis was a remake of TWoK this will be the second time they're going back to that well. Third if you count the augment episodes of Enterprise. It's just sad.

But... didn't everyone assume Kirk had died during the explosion onboard the Enterprise B at the beginning of "Generations?" As far as I know, Picard is the only one who even knew Kirk was on Veridian III.

I'm sure Picard was rather thoroughly questioned about how he stopped a man with a super nova causing weapon and on the loss of the flagship of the Federation. Under oath he'd have to state truthfully that he failed at first and was swept into the nexus and then returned with Kirk to help him.

Also per the Prime Directive, if there are inhabitants on the planet they would need to remove the remains of the saucer section and all debris and take Kirk's body home to avoid contaminating the culture or technology of the planet. The Federation keeps their tech and Kirk gets a heroes funeral.

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Veridian III was uninhabited, Veridian IV had the pre-industrial species on it. In the centuries it would take that species to even reach the third planet, the wreckage would be long buried by the forest.

I don't think that was a gamble the Federation would take, also there is the idea that if certain parties like the Romulans or Ferengi knew that the flagship of the Federation had crashed on a planet they would likely send ships there to retrieve as much as they can for study.

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Maybe, but it seems to me that it would be a lot easier to strip the wreckage of anything compromising during the evacuation rather than trying to pick up every bit of the saucer. Then, when the saucer gets buried in a couple of centuries, it would just be mistaken for a weird cave system for a while. Plus, we all know from past episodes that the Prime Directive is more of a guideline than a hard and fast rule

It would still have to be broken down into transportable pieces. Aside from the general lack of cargo holds capable of holding a whole Galaxy Class saucer, the saucer itself is to big for any transporter to beam up in one piece.

Fixed that for you. :P

In the Shatner novels Ashes of Eden and The Return it was stated there were salvage teams on the planet basically pulling parts out of the crashed saucer section and cutting it up for transport and removal from the planet. Spock was at Kirk's grave remembering Kirk's last big adventure before the Enterprise B maiden voyage, an honor guard was to be sent in later to help bring Kirk home for a heroes funeral. At least until an attack force arrived and a ship used its transporter on the grave to steal Kirk's body. Spock began going through the list of Kirk's enemies and began to remove names from it either due to the enemy being dead or incapable of what had just happened, leaving only ones that had the means and motivation to carry out a grudge against Kirk after 80 years. I forget who was left on the list, but I think Harry Mudd and Squire of Gothos were on it along with one or two Klingons, and of course KHAN. Ryker pointed out that Khan was dead, Spock simply said "I know" but left him on the list knowing that Khan's sheer hatred of Kirk could not be dismissed and on the slim chance that the genesis wave regenerated Khan as well.

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Oh look. footage of "Occupy Federation" in action!

It's 106 miles to Grandville, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing faceless helmets

... Hit it ...

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