City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

why are you not playing a crab SoA?

Agent White

By Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-04-26 17:04 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
I don't play any epic AT. The unique power combo system is the main reason I play CoX. The epic ATs feel extremely limited to me.
This. I'm interested in creating my own characters with my own stores and my own costume and power design. Epic ATs are essentially other people's stories that I can borrow characters from.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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I earned my legs last night on mine and decided that single target attacks are for suckers and went Gun Crab (rifle attacks + supression). The AOE he can throw out at level 25 is ridiculous. I'll leave the single target DPS to those better suited to it. That seems to be about it though, he's there for mowing down things on 8 man teams, not much else.

When the team pulled 2 spawns at once and things started getting hairy I really missed my Dark/Time Controller and her ability to lock everything down and turn things around.

The legs I'm kinda torn on. They can look kinda nice, but they can also get in the way a lot and they are very big, especially with the backpack bit. And unlike my winged Plant/Emp I can't switch to an alternate costume without them when I'm in caves etc.

He's a lot of fun at the mo, I'm sure I'll be bored of him next week and move on to something else.

 

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I would love to actually play one, i've tried multiple times however i find the low levels to be so boring playing as one.
Yes i could just skip up to the 20s to really start off but im one of those players who love the low level game and if i cant get a sense of enjoyment out of it that early, then i aint going to wait until the mids for it.

@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!

 

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Originally Posted by EU_Damz View Post
I would love to actually play one, i've tried multiple times however i find the low levels to be so boring playing as one.
Yes i could just skip up to the 20s to really start off but im one of those players who love the low level game and if i cant get a sense of enjoyment out of it that early, then i aint going to wait until the mids for it.
I ran DFBs up to about level 15, by then I had a couple of AOEs so things were less boring and moved to Cap. After that a few teams got me to 20 and I ran -1x0 Rogue Tips to get me to Rogue quickly. Since then I've just been forming or joining 8 man teams in Talos and it's pretty good fun.

 

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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth View Post
crabs are arguably the best characters in CoX. They have mezz protection, good defenses and some resistance. They have good team buffs, some debuffs, and amazing AoE.

simply put: crabs are tank mages, in theory the holy grail of characters

in the old days they were restricted to redside. But now you can get to 20 and switch to blueside.

but there are very few crabs out there on either side.

so why are you not playing a crab SoA?
And have you tried one?
Is this a trick question?

Look, Dug, am delighted you found an AT you love. Really. That's just great! But if your intent is convince others of its greatness, perhaps you could try posting in the Archetypes and Powers section of the forums? General area if your intent is persuasion, or, if you are looking for those to just cheer you on, perhaps you could try in the SoA subsection?

Or is this an actual serious question? If this is the case, I'm sure you can puzzle out all on your own why people have a preference for certain AT's and playstyles, and less for others.

 

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Originally Posted by blueruckus View Post
Really surprised at some of the anti-crab comments on here, especially some coming from 'reputable' members. Tank Mage, superb aoe with built in debuffing, passive support toggles that buff the entire team, heal w +max hp, good resists, mez protect, lots of pets for ridiculous, +recharge passive... this is "all around average"?

Weird how these average crabs put nearly everyone to shame on pylon runs. Where's the solo scrapper/brute/stalker all pylon run? To the rebuttal that pylon runs aren't everything, yep, aoe is king in this game and yeah crabs have that covered. That SS/Fire brute with burn and foot stomp pales in aoe speed to a crab's aoe chain. Crabs pretty much have it all. How could you not see this?

But hey, if the consensus is that they're average, then that's okay with me. It's just keeps the nerf bat away from the best AT/powerset in the game. And yes, Holy Grail is an accurate title.
I'd have to agree with this. My crab was one of the first characters I spent a lot of time figuring out a build on, and it was far from optimal because I was still learning the ins and outs of IOs at the time. That said, it's still one of my most durable characters even though I'm still using that old partially-broken build. I think that's what makes the crab spiders so good, you really don't need to tweak them much to get them on par with other AT builds that are very expensive.


 

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Because Fortunatas/Night Widows are better.

Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

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Why are you not playing a Fire/Traps Corruptor?

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge View Post
Why are you not playing a Fire/Traps Corruptor?

Oh you shouldnt try to trap fire, its dangerous!

@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!

 

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Crabs seems like one of those characters that seems like it should be really fun, but turns out it's just meh. I like MMs better.

 

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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Because Fortunatas/Night Widows are better.
My Fortunata is meh to me like my peacebringer. I am not saying either of those are bad, they just don't do it for me.

I like my crab but I don't see him as a tankmage. I am working on my bane (I don't do the dual build thing) and am withholding judgement until I get it to 50.

total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

 

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Originally Posted by Neuronia View Post
Got one to 50, soft-capped it, soft-capped Bane side for Buld two and got bored, moved on and made a Widow, soft-capped it and got bored, made a WP/EM Tanker, soft-capped it and got bored...I think you're getting the picture.

I'm enjoying my Dark/EM Blaster most at the moment, I actually get hit so I need to manage my health/end and smash face.
I've got a S/L softcap build you might be interested in

Re: the OP question: I have a 50 incarnate Crab... and Bane. I have 44 characters just on Virtue and half-ish aren't 50 yet. That's my reason for not playing my Crab more.

@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8

 

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I have a lvl 50 Crab. I think of him as a Tank Mage Mastermind.

Crabs are great!

Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster


"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."

 

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I love having more lasers than a Rush concert, but I HATE that the backpack stays with me when I change builds.

 

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Low direct ST damage, lack of passive aggro management coupled with DoTs leading to stuff running.

Cue in people naming pylon runs and missing the point. In real gameplay, tough targets don't always come one by one, actually move and do more damage.

On top of that, I've got more personal grievances such as heavily concept-locked looks, lots of cones and relatively long and boring animations.

I wouldn't delete my crab because it's fun to log in once in a while and throw AoEs willy-nilly in complete safety, but I can't play it as a "serious" character.

And just as I glance up after typing this post I see the usual suspect has already took the bait. Let's address his comments:

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Weird how these average crabs put nearly everyone to shame on pylon runs. Where's the solo scrapper/brute/stalker all pylon run?
Actually could do close to all solo pylon runs (2 pylons short) on both my SS/Fire/Soul brute and my Fire/Cold/Psi controller right after Destiny and Lore were released... Without temps unlike the one I've seen you posting about.

Those characters were also merely doing ~400 pylon DPS, not even a third of the 1300 or so I remember you claiming based on single pylon runs. Even considering the extra 2 pylons out of 18, even forgetting about your use of temp powers, this kind of error ratio is the difference between defender damage on SOs and scrapper damage on IOs + incarnates. Great job proving pylon damage tests are accurate at all relative to actual ingame performance!

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That SS/Fire brute with burn and foot stomp pales in aoe speed to a crab's aoe chain.
Yet, there's a strange lack of videos showing that supposed superiority, despite inf per kills per time being an indisputable metric, unlike pylon runs...



Now, to be fair, anyone who claims crabs are average or plain bad have a ridiculously skewed view of the ATs based on their top performing powersets or of crabs themselves based on their own suboptimal build or playstyle. To say they are good or great at many things but exceptional at nothing save for contrived tests would be more accurate. "Average" is, by definition, average, not "anything under #1".

 

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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth View Post
but there are very few crabs out there on either side.

so why are you not playing a crab SoA?
And have you tried one?
I deleted mine at about level 30 because he just felt so incredibly squishy. If I have a character sitting idle for months because I'm avoiding them, they stand a high chance of eventual deletion. I really liked him and his concept, he just needed too mcuh micromanagement for my taste.

Have a level 50 Bane whom I *heart* eternally, have a level 50 Fortunata who is just ok.... admittedly she still needs a lot of IOs, that will be the true test.

But the Crab, he had to go.

 

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Crabs make me itch!


"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

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They're not Dominators.

 

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that 1.3k deeps is with lore and the new hybrid assault. MMs destroys Crabs in pylon killing, of course no one talks about that

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth View Post
so why are you not playing a crab SoA?
And have you tried one?
My crab VEAT, "Leggy Blonde" is a terrific character. Durable, hard-hitting, and with a nice bag of tricks. She's also pure evil, a proud villainess, and the only character of mine that backstabbed Tielekku in the DA arcs.

Crabs do have some minor drawbacks. The beginning levels up until 24 are rough, but they go more quickly than ever these days. And there is the backpack, which some players can't get over. They also run enough toggles that endurance management must be carefully planned.

Those who say that Crabs do poor damage have not tried one extensively. They do not provide spike damage, true. But they have a stackable -res debuff (and more in the patron powers), a quick-recharge no-crash nuke, and potentially six high-damage pets. They put out an incredible amount of sustained damage, and can do it in an area of effect. Once you get to incarnate abilities you can really optimize the Crabs' damage. You can also get more pets. Leggy Blonde is an arachnophile, and can summon 7 mechanical spiders, plus a Bane that she calls 'Bob'. An optimized Crab is an armored artillery platform with its own squad of bodyguards. It's a unique and very powerful archetype.

I much prefer my Crab to my Widow. I haven't tried the Fortunata route. I tried Bane, didn't much like it. And the less mention of the HEATs, the better...I can't stand playing them. In my opinion the Crab is the best epic archetype in the game.

...
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Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueruckus View Post
That SS/Fire brute with burn and foot stomp pales in aoe speed to a crab's aoe chain.

 

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I do play my crab here and there, it is fun. That said, it's not "the best."

It's very strong, doubtlessly. With more investment, I'm sure it could be even better. That said, with its strength come weaknesses. Crabs can obliterate masses with easy, without even thinking about it. But especially on SO's they slow down with hard targets. They are extremely tough, until they face something that debuffs defense or sports high tohit buffs. This used to be limited, but as devs start to counter all the softcapping going around, it has become more of an issue. The large swaths of damage is cool, but the lack of burst damage mean your foes get to fight back. They also lack any control to stop nasty debuffs from problem targets. ...And let's be honest, a crab will run into endurance issues pretty quickly. This means that if you want to make them tougher with =defense powers and powers faster with +recharge, you also have to find a way to balance the high endurance usage.

Crabs are great, but actually more balanced than you would think.

 

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Crabs are, much like they're fellow SoAs, in that the more of the SoAs you have, the better they are.

Each one is usually decent in their area (Night Widow and Bane are Single Target, Crab is AoE + Pets, Fortunata is AoE + Control, the unofficial Huntsman build is a ranged damage + Buffer, all provide good team buffs which stack very well).

However they're often merely decent in that area, specialist ATs will outshine them, especially now that Stalkers have been buffed to the point where they outshine Night Widows (though Stalkers can't buff a teammates Damage and Defense like a Night Widow can).

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A real showstopper!

 

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1) The backpack - Do Not Want

2) My one and only SoA is a Huntsman. He excels at two things. Punching people in the head and shooting them in the face. He likes it. He's good at it. He has few aspirations beyond doing either or both at the same time. The fact that he inspires everyone around him to similarly excel at these things is just gravy. (I.E., he has tons of leadership-style buffs. Whether this is an ideal build or not is of zero consequence.) I find that this guy is more palatable to my tastes than other SoA variants.