Mutant issue....
In the CoH universe, there are around 5000 supers running around the world.
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The thing about a 'Mutant Issue' is that, in the CoH universe, there doesn't seem to be organized mutants. There is no Professor X or Magneto figures. No X-Men or Brotherhood... and as a result, no 'mutant elitism' that permeates both such groups. So, yeah. In this world, Mutants are the 'Generic Supers' that can be easily victimized by Crey or Malta, but they have no champions (for good or ill) of their own.
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*edit*
And besides, even if you want to argue that, no, there's still racism and homophobia despite this not being present in the game in anyone but VILLAINS, I'd rather not just retread Marvel's very specific story angle.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Where are you getting this from? I recall an NPC's offhand reference to "one of the 50 000 heroes from Paragon City."
"Mutants" are not special. They're people with super powers, with theirs being just one of myriad of ways to gain super powers. It would be ridiculous to deal with specifically MUTANT-related hatred without going through the process and introducing hatred for aliens, hatred for sentient machines, hatred for extra-dimensional or extra-planar entities, hatred for gods walking among men and so forth. "Mutants" are unique in the X-Men stories because that's all those stories ever deal with. You can't do that in City of Heroes because "mutants" are not unique snowflakes. They're not uniquely "taking our jobs," they're not uniquely "better than humans," they're not uniquely grotesque, they're not uniquely weird. There are people with animal heads hanging out in Pocket D. I'm pretty sure society has a handle on this. *edit* And besides, even if you want to argue that, no, there's still racism and homophobia despite this not being present in the game in anyone but VILLAINS, I'd rather not just retread Marvel's very specific story angle. |
This, really.
Mutants are, compared to some of the carp that goes on in Paragon and the CoHVerse (Mot and City-eating, anyone? Rikti War? Hamidon?) really pretty blooming generic. Any mob-dislike mentality would be aimed at much more important things. Like Rikti and Praetorians, the Praetorian one already making it in-game. Or the annoyance of elements of the PPD against Metas who think they are better/chip on their shoulder, etc.
i.e. Stuff that works within the established game universe. X-men esque Mutant bias does NOT. And, if it suddenly were, it would be stupid and pointless and an obvious shoehorn that would frankly be WORTHY of sueing.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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I've long suggested the Outcasts be brought in to the higher levels and expanded upon.
Arresting Frostfire may have broken up the gang, but all these superpowered punks with a chip on their shoulder are still out there, waiting for someone else to bring them under their banner. They could be a special division of the Council or the 5th Column (letting the other side have the werewolves, vampires and aliens). The Center, being a suspected mutant himself IIRC, means the Council would be a good fit.
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Rogue are ran by science and magic with a sprinkle of technology. No mutants
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You list four groups, one of which is made entirely of probable mutants. I'd hardly call that underrepresentation.
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@Inquisitor
People keep pointing out individual mutants as if that were the problem. But there are individual mutants - there are no mutant groups or storylines beyond the Outcasts.
Can you name a mutant group other than the Outcasts?
The problem is that the other origins are essentially manufactured. Need tech minions, give them powered armor. Need more wizards, train them. Need more naturals, train them.
But you cannot manufacture mutants to fill out a VG.
The solution to this in comic books is the combined origin. Something happened and a bunch of kids born soon after are mutants.
Smallville has a meteor crash that produced a generation of mutants. Static Shock has some event that produced a generation of mutants.
I don't know how old Crey's Folly disaster was - but there could be a group of mutants that were created by that. There must be other disasters - or just make one up.
Something I always figure is that Paragon City is a very tolerant city, much like San Fransisco. This may not be true for other parts of the world. Just because there isn't wide-scale, organized "burn the muties" stuff in the streets doesn't mean the kid with blue skin doesn't get a mountain of crap in high school. And not because of any particular hatred of mutants per say so much as people finding an excuse to be petty jerks to each other.
Additionally, most mutants don't have powers that are the type that make them human wrecking machines to be superheroes. For every one walking piece of human-shaped nuclear powered artillery there are dozens, maybe hundreds who while mutants, are not all that powerful. They're the guys who can talk to fish, or have grey skin, or can see gamma radiation, or whatever. Montague Castanella, for example, has the presumably mutant power to be immune to shifts in the time stream and sense alterations within a timeline. An absolutely useless power... unless you happen to cross paths with Ouroborus.
Psychic types do seem to be the most numerous, but that might be just that a lot of organizations recruit them pretty heavily. It doesn't help that "mutant" is kind of a catchall for what's really probably a number of different origins, from some kind of mutant gene or condition to the children of two metahumans who are born with powers themselves. They're really everything that isn't natural, science, magic, or tech, and the lines can get pretty blurry sometimes.
Even of those with a bit of real power, most don't really have enough of that mix of guts, power, brains and independence to become a hero or villain. So they join up with the Outcasts or Longbow or Arachnos or some other group. Or they maybe just go about their lives, get jobs, do a 9 to 5, raise a family, and so on, because they feel no real compulsion to choosing a line of work that involves being shot at a lot.
Being a mutant does not automatically preclude putting on tights.
I do see mutants as the most numerous of the origins, however, in that while the others are for the most part anomalies, accidents, or unique cases... mutants are just born. Nobody's sure how many there are. Maybe one in ten thousand, maybe one in five thousand, maybe even one in a thousand. That'd be between 30,000 to 300,000 in the US. At most, that's less than 0.1% of the population. That's not a whole lot, especially if you assume the majority, while still mutants, are either disinterested or unsuited to getting into the super scene. But it's a LOT more than probably every other type combined, because all those others are unique, pretty improbable scenarios.
If there's anti-mutant sentiment, it's likely lower level than the X-Men style mutant internment camps and Sentinels. I can imagine a scandal in professional sports when some football star turns out to be a low level mutant, and everyone starts going "Did his powers give him an edge? Is that cheating?" I can see high school bullies giving the kid with blue skin crap. I can see people on the bus giving odd looks to the guy in a business suit with four arms. I can see harried parents wondering what they did wrong to make their kid talk to birds in their own language, and trying to figure out if their child is ill... or actually can.
I imagine it was quite the shock in the 1940s, however, with people wondering if these different children born all over the world were infected with some kind of disease. Could it spread? Could my normal looking child turn green tomorrow, or suddenly start shooting fireballs? How do I protect my child? It's a very human reaction.
It probably took a while for people to figure out what was going on. I mean, we didn't even know about the DNA double helix until 1953.
But three generations have passed since then, and now? Only the greying oldtimers can remember an age where there were there weren't any children just born different and men couldn't fly. Heck, there are mutants with grandkids these days. Some even have great-grandkids. Assuming whatever factor that causes these things is hereditary and dominant, you may well be seeing third or fourth generation families of mutants, especially if you lump in the products of mixed metahuman marriages (like the child of two Science heroes will likely be... unique).
The world of City of Heroes is a pretty weird place sometimes. I admit a fascination with blurring the line between the fantastical and the mundane, and the juxtaposition of the strange mutant... and the old lady living next door who bakes you cookies. Makes it more interesting to me.
One little detail I always notice as well. Sister Psyche says mutants didn't appear until 1938. Sister Psyche was born in 1920. My general interpretation of this is that there were mutants born prior to 1938, but they were incredibly rare. After all, there were Giovanna Scaldi and Abelard Vernoux in the 1600s, both of them powerful psychics. But they were so rare, there was no term to describe them or concept that they were connected. After 1938, their numbers skyrocketed to the point that they became a discernible, identifiable and separate group and label.
But they've always been around, in the shadows, just like the Circle of Thorns goes into 1898 and Nemesis apparently used his inventions in the American Civil War and battled General Sherman.
And that's my rambling thoughts on the matter.
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Or it makes people excited. Having powers is not something being "wrong" with your child in a world where super heroes are common place. On the contrary, it's something being "awesome" about it. I mentioned having a little girl mutant, and the only thing her parents were afraid of was that she's get herself killed before she was ready to use her powers proper. Because in a world where freaks of nature are commonplace, famous and clearly good people, unusual biology is acceptable.
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"Oh, wow, mum, I can fly! And I tripped down the stairs and it didn't hurt at all!"
"Honey, come quick, Jimmy's gone super!" "Ha, that's my boy! Guess you're gonna start living that dream, kiddo!" Etc, etc, less cheese and more normalism. |
Well I wouldn't say that is wrong, but it's pretty short sighted to think that is 'the norm'.
One angle that the mutant origin explores is the whole 'accident upon manifestation' clause. One day you're just a normal kid who studies hard, has lots of friends, captain of the soccer team...then one day your powers *happen*, you wreck half a building, injure a lot of people (maybe even kill your best friend)...
Now you're either looked upon differently by the crowd, some fearful that it may happen again, maybe hated because "You ruined someone's life with your mutation" and treated differently in hopes to 'keep your power contained' so no soccer or doing all the things you normally do...
OR
You're instantly whisked off to some facility before you can even tell everyone you're sorry. Now you're alone and heartbroken that you hurt a lot of people and your friend is now dead...You were there once, you had an tragic accident and now you're gone...Some now refer to you as just an accident and are left in wonder of what actually happened. But while you are away you learn about your mutation but that doesn't mean when you return, people treat you the same. Everyone refers to you as 'the Accident', some keep away from you out of ignorance, some call you names like killer or disaster...
I mean, have you looked into the whole bullying thing kids go through these days? It can be pretty bad and those kids don't even have anything worthy of being bullied for!! But stick some kid with a physical abnormality or put them in a situation where they don't know how to control their gift and you have perfect material for those bullies to aim for.
I mean, honestly, you have to be *REALLY* uncreative if you can't think of a way to prosecute a mutant even in these settings. Heck, we've got a highschool full of meta mutants in Superhero101 who were shunned or feared for lack of control of their powers and now relocate to Paragon's Golden Eagle High so they can continue their education while learning how to use their abilities proper. Funny that is, after doing that, they turn the tables...those bullied mutants often take out their issues on weaker metas by bullying...and why not? They learned how to use their powers and have a tool to use to act out their social issues. So we've got mutant gangs in that school who pick on others with weaker powers (or no powers..because it's suppose to be a school for meta-humans in Paragon city).
There are ways, yes. Many ways. I like Arachnid's option of targeting the mutant genome. Because mutants *are* special. Their powers simply manifest where others have to be built, studied or sacrificed for to obtain. My main character, who is (or was) a naturally trained hero often feels looked down upon by such mutants because he doesn't have any powers so tends to be rather defensive when it comes to other metas in general (pretty much like Martial Brass and the chip on his shoulder) But I also have plans for an arc in Superhero102 where a certain Technomage starts seeking out mutant children for his elite automaton force because his magic automatons often have a fatal flaw (like the magic used to power them creating sentience and free will or simply being unable to control them) so using mutants while their powers are unbridled and unfocused can allow him to fuse them in some way to robots that he can more easily control. In the big scheme of things, the metas at Golden Eagle start seeing the unseen threat as a kind of boogy man that's specifically targeting mutants. But it's the same fear and targeting they'd witnessed before that is the meat of that story...that they're seen as just superpowered DNA or some sort of source rather than a person attached.
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
Next thing we know a bunch of red-haired mixed-race babies with frighteningly strong superpowers are born en mass.
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I always figured high level mutant content would be something like the Outcasts, only much more legit and having a more defined, larger scale purpose. Get, say, a council of incredibly gifted mutants that seek to unite those born with power. Their ultimate goal is the extinction of all average humans so that the stronger, super-powered humans can flourish and make a world where everyone is powered.
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In the Origin of Power arcs, both sides, you're told that the first mutants appeared after 1938, after humans split the first atom. Sister Psyche says that some people think this is because everything is connected, down to the atom, and that Positron further suspects that all origins of power share some deeper source.
And that was way before the Well woke up. |
That happened in 1930, when Marcus and Stefan drink from the Fountain of Zues, and then notice (and open) pandora's box behind the Fountain.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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I don't know how old Crey's Folly disaster was - but there could be a group of mutants that were created by that. There must be other disasters - or just make one up. |
And the game lore already has at least one group of origin linked mutants, the Nuclear 90. Fusionette is the only one of them we've seen in game.
And, as others have already said, the chances that there will be a major 'mutants are pariahs from society' story line is close to nil. In addition to being too close to the X-men concept there doesn't appear to be a history of widespread mutant hatred in primal earth. The Outcasts may like to think of themselves as rejected by society, but this seems more a convenient excuse to form a gang than the result of real prejudice.
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@Inquisitor
I hope they don't do too much with the Nuclear 90 story, though: I saw it as a great character hook and made my own Nuclear 90 mutant, and at least a few other people have mentioned doing the same (meaning there's probably way more than 90 out there, but as long as nobody's counting... ).
But maybe something similar to the Nuclear 90 or the "Bang Babies" in Static Shock could be the premise of an issue. Let's say that, just recently, hundreds of young adults all around the world have started developing dangerous superpowers, similar to the Nuclear 90 situation. An investigation traces the phenomenon back to something that secretly happened almost 20 years ago, like an experiment by Portal Corp that seemed to have no measurable effect, so nobody paid it much attention.
Now, however, the mutants born from that event are revealed as the key to something much bigger, and the hunt is on as both the villains, ranging from Crey Corporation to Arachnos, and the heroes are trying to find them all to capture, recruit or kill them. Some of them become heroes, some of them use their powers as villains, and others just want to live normal lives, and the premise leaves the actual roster big and vague enough to let players work the conflict into their backstory and take any role they want in it.
In other words, rather than trying to take on the story of "mutants" as a whole, which could easily fall into the "X-Men did it" trap, the story could focus on just one particular group of mutants, the event that sparked their births and how both the good and bad guys react to such an event.
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While not mutants, with the Rikti Invasion being followed so quickly by the Praetorian Invasion, the world is ripe for an Anti-Meta/Anti-Super movement to take place. I could easily see Malta spearheading this. Especially as part of a ploy to regain their strength with what happened to the KoA.
I mean, Praetoria and the Rikti - iirc - only found Primal earth because of meta human meddling in alternative dimensions. Do we really want to live in a world where irresponsible scientists and walking deities decide if we live or die on a whim while inviting their friends from other dimensions over for sunday morning brawls?
Mutant text:
"You were born with abilities which set you apart from the rest of humankind. Your powers manifested at birth, puberty, or possibly adulthood. Mutants are often viewed with awe and fear by those who don't understand them." |
Note that being "altered" by accident isn't included here. It IS included in "Science" though.
Science Text
You received your powers either through purposeful scientific inquiry or some accident gone awry. You have since learned to harness your new-found abilities, becoming a powerful force in the world. |
Realistically, of course, the categories are going to have gray areas and overlaps. Use what works best for your story, disregard the rest.
![](https://sites.google.com/site/chasyork/_/rsrc/1286288783877/home/chasebanner.jpg)
While not mutants, with the Rikti Invasion being followed so quickly by the Praetorian Invasion, the world is ripe for an Anti-Meta/Anti-Super movement to take place. I could easily see Malta spearheading this. Especially as part of a ploy to regain their strength with what happened to the KoA.
I mean, Praetoria and the Rikti - iirc - only found Primal earth because of meta human meddling in alternative dimensions. Do we really want to live in a world where irresponsible scientists and walking deities decide if we live or die on a whim while inviting their friends from other dimensions over for sunday morning brawls? |
Vanguard's campaign to perpetuate fear and distrust of the Rikti is the sort of pot-stirring melodrama you're talking about starting, and that storyline is all done except for the billboards.
People keep pointing out individual mutants as if that were the problem. But there are individual mutants - there are no mutant groups or storylines beyond the Outcasts.
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![](http://memete.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/challenge_accepted.png)
- The Awakened
- Coralax (it's not really clear if the coral's power is mutant or magical, maybe even pseudo-incarnate)
- Devouring Earth (both prime and praetorian)
- The Infested
- Paragon Protectors (well, actually is a mix of mutant and science)
- Seers
- Slag golems (see coralax)
- Snakes (mix of mutant, magic and/or incarnate)
- Syndicate
- Nuclear 90 (not in game)
Paragon Protectors (but yeah, like you say later, mixed origin)
- The Awakened
- Coralax (it's not really clear if the coral's power is mutant or magical, maybe even pseudo-incarnate) - Devouring Earth (both prime and praetorian) - The Infested - Paragon Protectors (well, actually is a mix of mutant and science) - Seers - Slag golems (see coralax) - Snakes (mix of mutant, magic and/or incarnate) - Syndicate - Nuclear 90 (not in game) |
The infested aren't mutants, they're mutated IDF controlled by the Devouring Earth...you can say the DE are mutants or the IDF are mutants but one being controlled by the other doesn't make them a unique mutant organization.
The snakes aren't mutants. And how can you include the Nuclear 90 when there is *nothing* in the game that uses it beside the backstory of a particular character?
So that list would look more like:
-The Awakened/Seers
-Coralax
-Devouring Earth
-Paragon Protectors
-Slag golems
-Syndicate
Not much of a list though, especially since two of those groups only have 1 unite type that resembles mutants among a whole non-mutant organization.
![](http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/jontalbain-win3.gif)
Unfortunately, that's basically Marvel's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Outcasts are NOT mutants! Okay, their leadership - the ones with actual names, like Frostfire and Keystone - are probably mutants. But the rest? They get their powers from mystical charms!
Remember, the Outcasts are part of the 'Mystic Cartel' (consisting of the Warriors, the Outcasts, and the Hellions) that vie with the the Superadine Cartel (The Family, the Trolls, and the Skulls.)
So please, stop refering to a group that get their powers through magical means as 'the Mutant group.'
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
Ugh... I have to wonder if people pay attention to game lore.
Outcasts are NOT mutants! Okay, their leadership - the ones with actual names, like Frostfire and Keystone - are probably mutants. But the rest? They get their powers from mystical charms! Remember, the Outcasts are part of the 'Mystic Cartel' (consisting of the Warriors, the Outcasts, and the Hellions) that vie with the the Superadine Cartel (The Family, the Trolls, and the Skulls.) So please, stop refering to a group that get their powers through magical means as 'the Mutant group.' |
For the record, I think such a plot would simply suck, due to the way the CoHverse is. Others would probably beg for it. Eh. C'est la vie.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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I get the feeling people just want an X-Men esque 'Hate the mutants! plot in-game, hence the using of any excuse.
For the record, I think such a plot would simply suck, due to the way the CoHverse is. Others would probably beg for it. Eh. C'est la vie. |
Azuria is commonly believed to have a vault and that it got robbed daily for instance. Nevermind the vault was in Galaxy and it was like one mission.
Longbow attack civilians and known heroes, because you know, they're laying civilians and heroes on red side, nvm that the game says "oh hey you're a villain, just how it is"
Things like that.
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Where are you getting this from? I recall an NPC's offhand reference to "one of the 50 000 heroes from Paragon City."
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Though when did NPC speak ever equal how things are suppossed to be?
Oro is not the best kept secret. In fact, I believe the newspapers were talking about Oro on their arrival.
Also, the devs could of changed it, due to you know, players having so many alts.
"No. No. There has to be more than 5000 supers world wide because I have 50 alts, and so does this player and that player...ect...ect."
*shrug* I find the idea of 5000 supers in the world better fiction than 50,000 (unless we're counting longbow army as such) in Paragon.
Or really...why attack Paragon, smart money would be to attack cities without supers in them.
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Or really...why attack Paragon, smart money would be to attack cities without supers in them.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
This is Paragon City, and the CoHverse. I simply cannot see that being true, not with the long line Super Hero (and admittedly Villain) presence throughout their history. Waking up one day with super powers in Paragon would be tantamount, to my mind, to winning some kind of lottery.
"Oh, wow, mum, I can fly! And I tripped down the stairs and it didn't hurt at all!"
"Honey, come quick, Jimmy's gone super!"
"Ha, that's my boy! Guess you're gonna start living that dream, kiddo!"
Etc, etc, less cheese and more normalism. And, yes, as someone already pointed out the whole X-men premise gets a bit weird when it's only the X-men who are *somehow* the ones to watch with suspicion. Despite, y'know, all that tech, science and magic running around, not to mention natural types.
Any Mutant story stuff should be done as would be fitting of the CoH-verse. I.e. where Mutants are common and accepted (unless, obviously, they go Villain) and anyone specifically against them (i.e. Malta) is the odd-one out, not the other way around. Savvy?
Paragon City is the hub of super activity.
There aren't really millions upon millions of Outcasts. Or even millions upon millions of Knives of Artemis.
But the game wouldn't be fun if the enemies didn't respawn.
So I think it would be less "That's my boy!" unless maaaybe the son was born in Paragon City.
Even the description for mutants says "feared"
But they likely don't do mutant storylines because in the Marvel universe it was stories of bias, and with the CoH player base, I can't imagine that going overwell. Look at the boards, someone shows some bias and it's war!
As for X-Men not fitting in the Marvel universe. I think that's more because they (the writers/editors) don't even bother to focus on it outside of the X-Men books really.
There's a difference between "Oh no! An accident happened!" and "What?! Mutie freak think they can make me extinct?!"
Of course, posters likely think, if this happened now, there wouldnt be bias. I disagree and think there would be a lot of bias in the real world. There's a difference between reading the fiction and accepting it in RL.
I'd say the closest Marvel has come to this is Civil War, inwhich it showed people not caring for supers who could basically destroy anything.
Also, if they do to much with it, it might seem to much like the X-Men.
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