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The only explanation is they're taking the easy route: The mission has changed, thus the badge associated with it has changed. Rather than create and award a new badge for the revised version and "detaching" the old one from the mission so it remains unchanged, the badge is just getting its name changed in the database.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Indeed.
Although I have zero love for Stateman and still don't see the logic in changing the badge. The reality for my characters who have it is they rescued Statesman- my opinion of the character is irrelevant, it's an act they performed, a badge they earned and ti shouldn't be messed with absent some sort of vitally compelling reason. I haven't seen any reason at all given thus far, let alone a compelling one. |
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The missions hasn't changed if those who did the old one don't do the new one.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
The only explanation is they're taking the easy route: The mission has changed, thus the badge associated with it has changed. Rather than create and award a new badge for the revised version and "detaching" the old one from the mission so it remains unchanged, the badge is just getting its name changed in the database.
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They've already done that mission.
I'd call it the lazy route, instead of the easy one.
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Just because you've already done it doesn't mean the mission isn't being changed. That's just plain stupid logic right there.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
The missions hasn't changed if those who did the old one don't do the new one.
They've already done that mission. I'd call it the lazy route, instead of the easy one. |
I'm not saying taking the easy route was right. I do think making a fuss over it is silly, though.
"Easy route" and "lazy route" are usually synonymous, so that last line was pointless.
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It's not a matter of me liking Statesman or not. I don't care about him. It's more Positron isn't that impressive to save as Statesman. Statesman was this invincible mary sue who never loses but suddenly he's reduced to a prisoner by this powerful force and it's up to YOU to save him. Positron, while a better character and down to earth, is still very much human.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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Not necessarily. One of the easiest things to do to help Khelds was making the shape shift ability faster. I have feeling that was NOT an easy programming change, nor lazy.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Just because you've already done it doesn't mean the mission isn't being changed. That's just plain stupid logic right there.
I'm not saying taking the easy route was right. I do think making a fuss over it is silly, though. "Easy route" and "lazy route" are usually synonymous, so that last line was pointless. |
As to the first sentence, the mission has NOT changed for my characters who've ALREADY DONE IT. They are not being asked to rescue Posi, they've already rescued statesman. There is not reason to give them a new shiney medal for rescuing Posi, when the ******* didn't.
EDIT: To be clear they can give whatever the hell they want to anyone who now answers the "call" tor rescue Posi. I couldn't care less.
But for those who already rescued Statesman (previous answered the call), keep the badge as is.
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The mission is being changed. Period. "For my character who has already done it" is irrelevant. THE MISSION IS BEING CHANGED. FOR EVERYBODY. PERIOD. END OF EFFING STORY. Your character who has already done it does not get a special magical version of the game that is different from everyone else where the mission isn't being changed. On "in-character terms", what is being changed is irrelevant to the character who has already done it. But that doesn't mean that the coding changing the mission isn't happening.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
As to the first sentence, the mission has NOT changed for my characters who've ALREADY DONE IT. They are not being asked to rescue Posi, they've already rescued statesman. There is not reason to give them a new shiney medal for rescuing Posi, when the ******* didn't.
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I still say this could be solved by nerfing it to level 40 so it's just before Wade. This wouldn't affect the IDF too much. They have a 21-54 group in AE available in I23. The other villain groups could just be brought down to 40-54 instead of 45-54.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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Do. Not. Care.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
The mission is being changed. Period. "For my character who has already done it" is irrelevant. THE MISSION IS BEING CHANGED. FOR EVERYBODY. PERIOD. END OF EFFING STORY. Your character who has already done it does not get a special magical version of the game that is different from everyone else where the mission isn't being changed. On "in-character terms", what is being changed is irrelevant to the character who has already done it. But that doesn't mean that the coding changing the mission isn't happening.
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As long as they keep the Statesman Badge for those who already have it, everything else is irrelevant.
And those characters already did the first story they are not going to go back and run that arc again. I don't even think they can based on the way contacts work. Unless they go to Oroborus, which they wouldn't. The arc is not that impressive.
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You seem to be either completely ignorant or intentionally obtuse about what's known as the "grandfather rule." This is the same rule which allows characters using costume pieces which have been removed from the game to retain them unless they go to change their costumes, as opposed to having the piece yanked off the character. There is no intrinsic truth to what you seem to be fond of endlessly repeating as though if you say it enough times people will give up and agree with you.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
The mission is being changed. Period. "For my character who has already done it" is irrelevant. THE MISSION IS BEING CHANGED. FOR EVERYBODY. PERIOD. END OF EFFING STORY. Your character who has already done it does not get a special magical version of the game that is different from everyone else where the mission isn't being changed. On "in-character terms", what is being changed is irrelevant to the character who has already done it. But that doesn't mean that the coding changing the mission isn't happening.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I dunno. IDF is in so little non-trial content that it remains pretty interesting. I guess I23 AE will change that though. WOO IDF IN AE.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
The arc is not that impressive.
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http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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What I mean is there is nothing being changed in there that would compel to want to re-run that arc, on characters who already did it.|
Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
I dunno. IDF is in so little non-trial content that it remains pretty interesting. I guess I23 AE will change that though. WOO IDF IN AE.
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AKA meh IDF.
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Bleh yeah. It was far too long for replayability. It was just nice to have my ego stroked by the NPCs :P.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
What I mean is there is nothing being changed in there that would compel to want to re-run that arc, on characters who already did it.
AKA meh IDF. |
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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I AM NOT SAYING THE CHANGE IS A GOOD THING! I have specifically said the EXACT EFFING OPPOSITE. ...speaking of people being obtuse, try looking in a ******* mirror. People are asking why it's being changed. I'm giving the likeliest reason. Where in the F people are getting that I'm somehow defending it is beyond me.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You seem to be either completely ignorant or intentionally obtuse about what's known as the "grandfather rule." This is the same rule which allows characters using costume pieces which have been removed from the game to retain them unless they go to change their costumes, as opposed to having the piece yanked off the character. There is no intrinsic truth to what you seem to be fond of endlessly repeating as though if you say it enough times people will give up and agree with you.
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Calm down.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
I AM NOT SAYING THE CHANGE IS A GOOD THING! I have specifically said the EXACT EFFING OPPOSITE. ...speaking of people being obtuse, try looking in a ******* mirror. People are asking why it's being changed. I'm giving the likeliest reason. Where in the F people are getting that I'm somehow defending it is beyond me.
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Pot. Kettle. Black.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Calm down.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
Pot. Kettle. Black.
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Saw that coming.
*insert trollface pic here*
Glad to see we've all come to agreement: keep the the Statesman's Pal badge.
/thread?
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Doesn't invalidate their point, though.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
Pot. Kettle. Black.
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I am not Positron's Pal either.
Look, Devs, here's another badge for you, and this is one you're in danger of being awarded by a lot of players -- "Small and Petty".
Explain to us why the badge cannot remain for those who did the arc as it was, and cannot still be achieved by those who do it via time-travel, Orouboros.
What I object to, and I think I read others saying the same, is that retroactively changing the badge already awarded for stories played as the game's timeline factually contained, is explained to us by nothing less than attempt to erase Statesman from the game's history.
I suppose there could be good reasons for this, perhaps even legal or intellectual property reasons. If that's so, I'd like to hear them, and they could put me on your side instantly.
But if the reason is you want to promote the new leader of the Phalanx, or just want to deemphasize Statesman generally, and don't want his name showing on people's badge lists, or badge titles, or maybe it was thought not worth the development effort to preserve the old badge while adding a new one; well, all those are just Small and Petty.
You can do better. I am not Positron's pal either, but be honest with us, and maybe I could be.
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Actually, that's not exactly true. My main has done A Hero's Hero but has never actually yet done A Hero's Epic. I was awarded the badge for doing Hero's Hero, and that mission arc isn't being changed as far as I know: it still exists in Ouroboros.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
The mission is being changed. Period. "For my character who has already done it" is irrelevant. THE MISSION IS BEING CHANGED. FOR EVERYBODY. PERIOD. END OF EFFING STORY. Your character who has already done it does not get a special magical version of the game that is different from everyone else where the mission isn't being changed. On "in-character terms", what is being changed is irrelevant to the character who has already done it. But that doesn't mean that the coding changing the mission isn't happening.
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There are badges you can only get in flashback: the exploration badges in the pre-Incarnate Dark Astoria for example. I don't see why Hero's Hero can't continue to award Statesman's Pal and the updated Hero's Epic can't award Positron's Pal separately (as was suggested earlier in the thread). And if that is the case, the devs could retroactively grandfather all players to keep Statesman's Pal and require a rerun of Hero's Epic to get Positron's Pal, so that you actually have to save Positron to get it.
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So it's confirmed that the original IS IN Ouroboros. Good to know. Nothing else needs to be said, you covered it.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, that's not exactly true. My main has done A Hero's Hero but has never actually yet done A Hero's Epic. I was awarded the badge for doing Hero's Hero, and that mission arc isn't being changed as far as I know: it still exists in Ouroboros.
There are badges you can only get in flashback: the exploration badges in the pre-Incarnate Dark Astoria for example. I don't see why Hero's Hero can't continue to award Statesman's Pal and the updated Hero's Epic can't award Positron's Pal separately (as was suggested earlier in the thread). And if that is the case, the devs could retroactively grandfather all players to keep Statesman's Pal and require a rerun of Hero's Epic to get Positron's Pal, so that you actually have to save Positron to get it. |
EDIT: Also didn't realize that both arcs now have DIFFERENT NAMES. So yeah about that "it's being changed for everyone" thing---> LMAO!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
There are badges you can only get in flashback: the exploration badges in the pre-Incarnate Dark Astoria for example. I don't see why Hero's Hero can't continue to award Statesman's Pal and the updated Hero's Epic can't award Positron's Pal separately (as was suggested earlier in the thread). And if that is the case, the devs could retroactively grandfather all players to keep Statesman's Pal and require a rerun of Hero's Epic to get Positron's Pal, so that you actually have to save Positron to get it.
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Best proposed solution.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, that's not exactly true. My main has done A Hero's Hero but has never actually yet done A Hero's Epic. I was awarded the badge for doing Hero's Hero, and that mission arc isn't being changed as far as I know: it still exists in Ouroboros.
There are badges you can only get in flashback: the exploration badges in the pre-Incarnate Dark Astoria for example. I don't see why Hero's Hero can't continue to award Statesman's Pal and the updated Hero's Epic can't award Positron's Pal separately (as was suggested earlier in the thread). And if that is the case, the devs could retroactively grandfather all players to keep Statesman's Pal and require a rerun of Hero's Epic to get Positron's Pal, so that you actually have to save Positron to get it. |
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I totally less than three you.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, that's not exactly true. My main has done A Hero's Hero but has never actually yet done A Hero's Epic. I was awarded the badge for doing Hero's Hero, and that mission arc isn't being changed as far as I know: it still exists in Ouroboros.
There are badges you can only get in flashback: the exploration badges in the pre-Incarnate Dark Astoria for example. I don't see why Hero's Hero can't continue to award Statesman's Pal and the updated Hero's Epic can't award Positron's Pal separately (as was suggested earlier in the thread). And if that is the case, the devs could retroactively grandfather all players to keep Statesman's Pal and require a rerun of Hero's Epic to get Positron's Pal, so that you actually have to save Positron to get it. |
Now, do the same to Sister Psyche please. And the badges in Recluse's Victory that involve States and Sister P. And the STF one. Thanks.
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I vote for this!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I don't see why Hero's Hero can't continue to award Statesman's Pal and the updated Hero's Epic can't award Positron's Pal separately (as was suggested earlier in the thread). And if that is the case, the devs could retroactively grandfather all players to keep Statesman's Pal and require a rerun of Hero's Epic to get Positron's Pal, so that you actually have to save Positron to get it.
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Although I have zero love for Stateman and still don't see the logic in changing the badge. The reality for my characters who have it is they rescued Statesman- my opinion of the character is irrelevant, it's an act they performed, a badge they earned and ti shouldn't be messed with absent some sort of vitally compelling reason.
I haven't seen any reason at all given thus far, let alone a compelling one.
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