SSA #7 Story Discussion ** SPOILERS **
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2012-03-26 14:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Turned my Vigilante to Hero tonight for attempt five. Still got Manticore.
Will next try re-enforcing the Hero alignment for attempt six to get the Vanguard salute like M_I_Abrahms did.
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The waypoint on the map isn''t named unfortunately. I spent a few minutes pointlessly looking around the area you zone into. If you mouseover the bastion of Shame waypoint, it gives you text. it's a pity they didn't do the same for Scirocco.|
Originally Posted by Android_5Point9
He's also marked by a waypoint on the map.
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Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Haven't read the whole thread.
Cool arc IMO, the floating ship map was great. I swam over and ran/jumped up the ships to the top even though I have Fly.
Space map awesome, but the big cubic artifact of Rularuu's info was 'TEXT'. That's pretty poor.
None of the bosses was particularly difficult for my en/en 50+3.
Would have liked Lady Grey's final dialogue to finish with "...and it's going to be very painful".
The Warburg mission was disappointing. I expected a bit more to gain control of the whole of WArburg's offensive capabilities than blowing up 12 tanks and defeating 3 bosses.
Final mission was v nice. Liked the walk of honour at the end.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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I'm not sure it was re-enforcing my alignment that did anything. I hadn't even done that before running the arc. However, I also had not run all of the Villain SSAs. In fact, I think I only ran the first two, and may have *only* run the second at all. (memory's a bit shoddy)|
Originally Posted by Llydia
Turned my Vigilante to Hero tonight for attempt five. Still got Manticore.
Will next try re-enforcing the Hero alignment for attempt six to get the Vanguard salute like M_I_Abrahms did. |
I do specifically remember that character handing over the skull *without* asking for the temp power. However, I have no memory of running any of the other arcs with him. When it came to the conference at the end, I really think the Numina question was the only one Villain slanted.
It may be that I got the good ending specifically because I did not face Manticore at any point on the character. It's the theory I'm working on at the moment.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Quote:
Sorry, Troy, she suggested the pants thing. It was me who then linked it to you.|
Originally Posted by TroyHickman
So...I'm Darrin...and your wife is thinking about my pants, or lack thereof...?
I don't want to break up yet another happy home... |
Yes! I think about Troy Hickman's pants!
I find your lack of pants disturbing.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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You should've seen how it used to disturb them at PTA meetings...
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Originally Posted by Shadowe
Sorry, Troy, she suggested the pants thing. It was me who then linked it to you.
Yes! I think about Troy Hickman's pants! I find your lack of pants disturbing. |
Troy Hickman - So proud to have contributed to and played in this wonderful CoH universe
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Admittedly, I did something very similar. After Recluse finished his little thing about how I was most suited for the job, I actually flew over to the bottom ship, landed, and ran up. I have to imagine what they were saying back at the ship.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Haven't read the whole thread.
Cool arc IMO, the floating ship map was great. I swam over and ran/jumped up the ships to the top even though I have Fly. |
"Wait, didn't he just fly over there... Why did he land?"
"Maybe the field mucks with his flight?"
*30 seconds later, accidentally jump off the back of a ship into nothing, turn on Fly and get back on*
"Okay, so that theory is shot. What the hell is he doing?"
"We could ask him when he gets back..."
"No, that would just be awkward. Let's just... Shh! Here he comes! And... he's flying back."
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Originally Posted by Venture
I'd never use a nuke in a superhero universe. You nuke a city, you kill 1.5 million people minus one. The last guy not only gets superpowers from the explosion, but ones that let him survive a nuke...and wow, is he torqued off
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PPD Mastermind
Maybe Manticore showing up just depends on whether you did SSA3 (or whichever other one has you fighting him) as a villain or not. Kinda makes sense.
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That's what I'm thinking, but how often does he show up Villainside? If I'm thinking right, doesn't he get whooped three times? SSA3 over Miss Liberty, SSA4 over Mailaise, and SSA6 over Sister Psyche.|
Originally Posted by BenRGamer
Maybe Manticore showing up just depends on whether you did SSA3 (or whichever other one has you fighting him) as a villain or not. Kinda makes sense.
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...
Hell if I'm right, he's personally involved every time one of the characters is killed off. No wonder he's a little cracked if you meet him in SSA7.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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Why? She's not a Villain.
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Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Would have liked Lady Grey's final dialogue to finish with "...and it's going to be very painful".
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Damn. I was going to try to see what happened when I ran a Villain who (I thought) hadn't touched any of the SSA's through #7, and the first question the Press conference asked was about #6. And yes, Manticore. However, I did find the fact that the reporters didn't ask me anything about 1-5 interesting.
EDIT: OK, had another Villain, this one I *specifically* had kept out of the SSA's so he can run them 1-7 all at once. The Press ONLY asked about chapter seven for him. Still fought Manticore.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
I ran this last night for the first time and I was like "wow"... the scenery and effects seemed gorgeous and actually the story was pretty good too.
However, I found that the whole "end-of-level-boss" was a real disappointment, even as an AV. I mean he just went down quicker than you could say Jack Anything... and although we had no issues with the AVs at the start of the arc, at least they resisted. It just seemed too easy in the end.
Ending was very funny though 
Thelonious Monk
Doing this on my Rogue, Elna, has been weird. I've done all the SSA missions hero side. I get to the boat, all the heroes are friendly with me. Numina talks about how great it is to see me again. Outside the boat, she doesn't trust me "in the slightest"
I'm not in a position to check at the moment - Did the story arc award a souvenir at the end?
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If I were to give the writers more credit than I usually risk, this sounds like it may be *exactly* the intended reaction. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I believe he believes most of what he says. I don't trust him to be necessarily right, nor do I believe him when he effectively says his plans are so inscrutable we couldn't do anything more than mess them up if we were aware of them.
Anyone who says "you dare question me" is in dire need of being questioned. And probably wrong. |
This is Prometheus, a name presumably picked quite deliberately by someone on the writing team. Someone who, depending on point of view, may have done something in the past to give far more potential power to humanity than the "organization" approved of, and is now watched very carefully.
Consider Jed Lacey (from David Drake's excellent but quite dark Lacey and His Friends); having once done something unpleasant that in his opinion needed to be done despite the law and custom of his society, the rulers of that society removed his ability to do anything like that again, and kept him under far more careful watch afterward. Much of one of the stories is his years-long elaborate deception such that when he again feels the need to act, it is seen as the result of outside influences, and "couldn't possibly" be his fault (let alone his plan). The comparison to a "rehabilitated" Prometheus, perhaps specifically to interface with these humans he knows more about than many of his organization (can we just use the word "pantheon" yet?), should be fairly clear.
The other story that came to mind immediately upon reading the collected dialog (thank you Kobolt_Thunder and Llydia) was Isaac Asimov's classic The Last Answer. Not in direct parallel this time, but the concept of a being of vast and superior power deliberately goading a promising slightly-lesser being into defying their stated will, specifically to get them to throw their determination and energy in a (secretly) desired direction with far more fervor than a more direct approach might have generated.
Putting it together, it's at least possible that Prometheus is *deliberately* taking a seemingly hardline stance with carefully-calculated antagonistic phrasing, to goad PCs into finding a better plan than the "organization" is pushing and he is officially obliged to follow. Perhaps he doesn't like the odds, perhaps he doesn't like the sacrifices along the way, perhaps both.
tl;dr:
Prometheus: "Your only chance to avert total doom is our superior plan, as the threat you face is so overwhelming that even with our superior plan your odds are not great. We are so much smarter than you all that you don't deserve to know how it might work, you must simply accept the unpleasant sacrifices for even poor odds. Neener Neener."
PCs: "We'll see about THAT."
Prometheus (aside, smiling so only the audience can see): "Excellent..."
(later)
Prometheus, to Mysterious Presence: "I have done all I can to convince the humans that The Plan is their only choice. Michael stands witness to my efforts to convince them even in the face of their childish stubbornness."
Michael: "Indeed. I cannot fathom how he stands these troublesome humans as much as he does, but his interactions with them have remained staunchly supporting The Plan, despite his earlier... indiscretions."
still tl;dr: The "organization" is Lawful Neutral with a leaning toward Good. Prometheus is Neutral Good with a leaning toward Chaotic. They fight crime with difficulty.
P.S.: If anyone from Paragon Studios (or, perhaps more likely, Samuraiko Productions
wants to use any of the above, feel free.
Miuramir, Windchime, Sariel the Golden, Scarlet Antinomist...
Casino Extortion #4031: Neutral, Council+Custom [SFMA/MLMA/SLMA/FHMA/CFMA]
Bad Candy #87938: Neutral, Custom [SFMA/MLMA/SLMA/FHMA/HFMA]
CoH Helper * HijackThis
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WWD#7 Souvenir as a Vigilante (who has done both blueside and redside #1-6 before) is "View of Planet Earth".|
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
I'm not in a position to check at the moment - Did the story arc award a souvenir at the end?
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
I'm not sure it was re-enforcing my alignment that did anything. I hadn't even done that before running the arc. However, I also had not run all of the Villain SSAs. In fact, I think I only ran the first two, and may have *only* run the second at all. (memory's a bit shoddy)
I do specifically remember that character handing over the skull *without* asking for the temp power. However, I have no memory of running any of the other arcs with him. When it came to the conference at the end, I really think the Numina question was the only one Villain slanted. It may be that I got the good ending specifically because I did not face Manticore at any point on the character. It's the theory I'm working on at the moment. |
Your theory sounds right to me, M_I_Abrahms. It depends on which villain-side SSA WWD missions were done that determines if a hero/vigilante gets to have the Vanguard salute or face off one more time against Manticore.
Any recommendations for what my level 50 should spend the 1 Hero Merit on before I return to being a Vigilante?
I have not done any of the new DA content, but one thing I want to know from reading through this thread: Why can't we just get the Rikti to slap the battalions **** like they did in their own universe? Is there some sort of difference here?
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Because when the Battalion reference was dropped into the RWZ material, they (or it, as may be the case) were just a bunch of nasty aliens, not the soul-devouring Cosmic Horror they're now implied to be. Remember, the Rikti couldn't deal with Nemesis automaton versions of the Freedom Phalanx; they'd have been stomped flat by anything that's supposed to challenge our tricked-out Incarnates.|
Originally Posted by G_Savior
I have not done any of the new DA content, but one thing I want to know from reading through this thread: Why can't we just get the Rikti to slap the battalions **** like they did in their own universe? Is there some sort of difference here?
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I.e., they've changed horses in mid-stream again.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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I wonder if the person responsible for that particular idea (Whee! Everything is a Nemesis Plot! Even the Rikti War was a Nemesis Plot!) ever stopped to think about the implications of it? |
Originally Posted by Venture
Remember, the Rikti couldn't deal with Nemesis automaton versions of the Freedom Phalanx;
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If his fake Phalanx automatons were strong enough to put the hurt on the Rikti then they were already strong enough to let him take over Primal Earth, especially if they were mass produced. Of course, we're supposed to believe that Nemesis is the plans within plans within plans genius but that he didn't account for just how ferocious the Rikti military response would be, or so I gather.
Eh. I'd like to get into a time machine and go back to whoever came up with the idea that Nemesis was the REAL reason for the war and slap them silly and tell them "This is not a game! Now twy again!"
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Nemesis didn't slot the Idiotball power in his version of the Phalanx, the Rikti had to fight a competent FP, though that means they should have realized something was up when they ran into the real FP.|
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
I
If his fake Phalanx automatons were strong enough to put the hurt on the Rikti then they were already strong enough to let him take over Primal Earth, especially if they were mass produced. |
"I say old chaps, we, your enemy, happen to be standing over here. You might want to point the one with sharpened sticks in this direction, he seems to be mistaking the backs of your uniforms for us. I hate to be a further bother but if you'd stop bickering for a moment we can take care of our business and be off to the next world."
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The Fauxdom Phalanx (sic) was able to smack around the Rikti because the Rikti had no meaningful military capability or supers of their own. (From a Primal Earthling's perspective every Rikti is "superhuman", of course, but the Rikti don't appear to have had the kind of "one man army" supers Primal was sick with, at least before the wars.) It was explained in the RWZ material that following the defeat of the Battalion the Lineage of War was returned to its diminished ceremonial role. I imagine world peace is easier to attain when you have a species-wide telepathic network.| If his fake Phalanx automatons were strong enough to put the hurt on the Rikti then they were already strong enough to let him take over Primal Earth, especially if they were mass produced. |
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Originally Posted by Jack Handy
I can imagine a world without war, a world without strife. And I can imagine us attacking that world because they'd never expect it.
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Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Yeah, I know the lore, I just think it's bad lore. I guess I assume that some weaponry and a token standing army must exist even for a largely ceremonial fighting force. You wouldn't dismantle your military entirely after fighting off one of the strongest militaries in the galaxy (as the Batallion was purported to be). There might be another such power out there waiting to cruise through your solar system. Though, I suppose that the conjecture about the Lineage of War using the Nemesis attack as an excuse for a power grab is kind of interesting.
The stupid thing is that Nemesis ever attacked in the first place. He'd have had a much better chance of bringing his "upload my mind into the planetary mental network" plans to fruition if he'd just quietly gone about his business. If there was some good reason for him to start the war, I've never learned what it was.
The whole idea that "Even the War is a Nemesis Plot!" was a terrible one, IMO. The only thing that might save it is that the War was actually a conspiracy between Nemesis and the Lineage of War, and that each of them actually got something they needed from it. That would be truly horrible - that Nemesis would basically sacrifice the world to achieve one of his Machiavellian goals, confident in his hubris that he would just kick the Rikti out again at a later date.
Meh. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback but really, I have to wonder who greenlights some of these ideas.
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Splitting hairs. America kind of got caught with its pants down in 1941 even after having fought a major world war just a few decades earlier....| I guess I assume that some weaponry and a token standing army must exist even for a largely ceremonial fighting force. |
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| The stupid thing is that Nemesis ever attacked in the first place. He'd have had a much better chance of bringing his "upload my mind into the planetary mental network" plans to fruition if he'd just quietly gone about his business. If there was some good reason for him to start the war, I've never learned what it was. |
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| Meh. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback but really, I have to wonder who greenlights some of these ideas. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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He's a grandstander - an even bigger one than Recluse - the style of his victory seems to be almost as important to him as the actual victory - his "you may now applaud my audacity" line after he's revealed his Rikti war plot is a perfect insight into his mentality, and fits right in with using steam based tech in the modern world, and the general complexity of his plots - he goes out of his way to prove his genius to the world by always choosing the hardest option.
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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
The stupid thing is that Nemesis ever attacked in the first place. He'd have had a much better chance of bringing his "upload my mind into the planetary mental network" plans to fruition if he'd just quietly gone about his business. If there was some good reason for him to start the war, I've never learned what it was.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Pants.
Yes, you heard it here first, Darrin Wade IS Troy Hickman.
I don't want to break up yet another happy home...
Troy Hickman - So proud to have contributed to and played in this wonderful CoH universe