The new Solo-able incarnate drops
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-03-09 15:36 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Nope. You get 6 component rolls your first time through.|
Originally Posted by Humility
I believe the timer is 20 hours PER arc on separate timers. But I agree, the content is good stuff.
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After that you can get no more than a single component per 20 hour period no matter how many arcs you run.
If you run through a second arc, you'll get either 2 astrals or 1 emp.
Third run is 10 threads.
After that, you get jack.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Apparently a very long term goal in the iTrials means 18 hours.|
Originally Posted by Coulomb2
EDIT: And getting anything to Tier 4 using DA is something you should consider a very long term goal. It's doable, but you need to be prepared for it to take a while.
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And then there's all those friendly EBs that make DA soooooo nice for some powersets that are fresh incarnates and not setted out. I know, I know, there are powersets that aren't allowed reward tables in the iTrials but ...wait, what? really? anyone? Devs, you got some 'splaining to do.
I think the disparity between the solo arcs and trial rewards are ridiculous.
This evening: a TPN run (still in cooldown) and the last three missions in the "To What End Power" arc.
TPN: 45 minutes including league set up time (35 in trial).
One common component; 7 Astral merits; 1 Empyrean merit; 67 (!) threads.
Arc: +0x6, defeat (nearly) all. 115 minutes (excludes selling, travelling time)
10 threads, one common.
In threads alone, that's over 12 times more slowly. TWELVE TIMES. And then there are the merits on top.
I can't understand the dev's motivation here. It's a laughable comparison.
Opinions and recommendations
iXP rates - Very slow, but tolerable. 50s need an iXP boost. 51s feel like decent progress, and they sure aren't twice as hard as 50s.
Recommendation: If you can handle +1, run with it, even if that's all. iXP per kill doubles from 50 to 51.
Thread rates - Also very slow. It takes 20 threads to make anything and even more to make anything you're not going to have in plenty. 4 threads in a kill-all arc just doesn't mean much. Recommendation: Never build a common. You'll see why later. Try to avoid burning threads to unlock slots, if you can hold out.
Components - Hideous reward table. Commons coming out our ears that we can't upgrade. Getting to T3 is technically doable, but expect to have to burn Emps or upgrade Uncommons. Getting to T4 is just a factor of dumb luck. Recommendation: Anger management courses will help alleviate the stress from that 10th common in a row.
Incarnate Merits - Utter failure. Between the sparse availability and the random nature, trying to get enough of these to use is going to be an exercise in futility. No idea why the devs have been so miserly, particularly with Astrals. Recommendation: If you want merits in any meaningful quantity, go run Trials. If you do run DA for Merits, save your Empyreans for Rares.
General Feel - The arcs as story are GREAT. Fantastic, epic feeling. Love them. DA as a form of progress? It's very poorly designed. You get that first run through to get you started, so everything seems ok at first, but after that it's a long tedious slog. In the end, DA is not a battle against the forces of evil, it's a battle against the time gates and the RNG. You're strictly rationed in how many rewards you get and what you get is usually just a lotto ticket. It makes for a tedious, frustrating grind to get anywhere in the Incarnate System.
In the end, the structure is far more worried about making sure you're nowhere near the rewards for what you're not doing (iTrials) than rewarding you for what you ARE doing.
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Originally Posted by Coulomb2
Here's my advice, based on experience, for people wanting to make the most of what DA offers (I'm the guy that on beta actually *did* spend a month trying to get a character to Tier 3 in Alpha, Lore, and Destiny, so this is my "if I'd known better when I started, this is what I would have done differently):
Do make sure you do one run of all of the major rewards a day (or however often you can) - one component, one merit roll, 10 threads. Don't: Spend your threads to craft commons or uncommons - The drop rates are actually going to give you about twice the number of commons you need (relative to rares and very rares). Don't: Convert your empyreans to threads. Save them up for a rare. On average, you're going to get about one uncommon for every six or seven commons. (Again, on average - that's subject to the vagaries of the RNG), which is pretty close to what you need anyway. That's why my advice is not to waste threads on uncommons. In about two weeks, you'll have the threads (and astral merits) to flat out craft directly a rare. By week two you'll also have about a 50-50 chance of having had one rare actually drop. So at the very least you'll have one Tier 3 power, and a 50% shot at having two. On the other hand, if you've been using your threads to craft commons and uncommons, you'll be several days away from having enough to craft the rare. By around week three, on average you'll have the empyreans for a rare. So you'll have two Tier 3's crafted for sure, and there's a decent (65%) chance you'll have seen a rare drop by then, and have your third Tier 3 crafted. No disrespect to Bill intended at all, but in my experience, it *is* a good idea to craft powers for Judgment and even Interface. By the time you've got your hands on what you need to make rares for Lore and Destiny, the drops alone are very likely to have given you an excess of commons and uncommons needed for Tier 1 or Tier 2 in Judgment and Interface. And to be honest, I found having the Judgement nuke available really did measurably speed things up. Anyway, that's my two-cents, for what it's worth. EDIT: And getting anything to Tier 4 using DA is something you should consider a very long term goal. It's doable, but you need to be prepared for it to take a while. Specifically, on average, you'll need to save empyreans for about three months to have enough for a very rare. In that same three month time, you've got about a 90% chance of having seen a component roll give you a very rare as well. |
well said and i tend to agree with all of what you said.
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Originally Posted by halfflat
I think the disparity between the solo arcs and trial rewards are ridiculous.
This evening: a TPN run (still in cooldown) and the last three missions in the "To What End Power" arc. TPN: 45 minutes including league set up time (35 in trial). One common component; 7 Astral merits; 1 Empyrean merit; 67 (!) threads. Arc: +0x6, defeat (nearly) all. 115 minutes (excludes selling, travelling time) 10 threads, one common. In threads alone, that's over 12 times more slowly. TWELVE TIMES. And then there are the merits on top. I can't understand the dev's motivation here. It's a laughable comparison. |
well when you put it that way I can see your point. However I have to just imagine what the devs are thinking. I come up with only one thing. They assume we well solo these arcs when were having a chance to play but not getting on a trial.
I was on at about 5 am cause the baby woke me up. She fell back to sleep and then i was awake. So I ran a farm on a tank that I need some more stuff on to get to t3s. I didnt finish it but i got half of what i needed cause i was so close.
So I think for that situation its ok. But having read the answers in this thread it makes me think. That with an increased difficulty this is once again going to favor my tanks, scrappers, brutes, one blaster, and some other pimped out toons out there.
And most trollers, defenders, cors etc... are not going to be able to go as fast in DA. Maybe some tweaking or a buff to lesser ats is in order to balance the farmability aspect of that?
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My guess is that the solo content is as slow as it is to give people a taste of what Incarnate content offers. The devs fully intend that players be frustrated with the slow pace and decide to do trials to speed up the process.|
Originally Posted by Yoru-Hime
In the end, the structure is far more worried about making sure you're nowhere near the rewards for what you're not doing (iTrials) than rewarding you for what you ARE doing.
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Why? I'm betting the #1 reason people leave the game is that their friends are leaving the game. The wider your circle of friends, the more reason you have to continue playing.
When large-league trials were announced the group of people I had been running SFs with knew that they would have to expand their membership and made plans for it. On smaller servers the players all need each other in order to make a go of trials, and greater interaction and cooperation among more players is a net improvement to the game.
If everyone is off running DA content alone or in tiny groups, you just don't have that same vibe, and in the long run non-soloists will feel isolated and alone, and will quit the game. If that produces a "cascade failure" in subscriptions, soloists will ultimately be affected if the game is shut down.
Moral of the story: soloists need lots of people to subscribe to the game in order for it to be profitable enough to survive. Even if you hate teaming, you should go out and join an iTrial once in a while when a league needs members to make it happen. You'll be doing the game a service, and also speed up your incarnate process by a factor of 10.
Ixp I think should be better. Its a pain to try to unlock the 4 slots by yourself.
Reward table is always common, at least for me.
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Yes, those ebil ebil unsocial soloists, they must be punished. However did CoH survive before the clusterhugs of iTrials?
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Originally Posted by Rodion
Moral of the story: soloists need lots of people to subscribe to the game in order for it to be profitable enough to survive. Even if you hate teaming, you should go out and join an iTrial once in a while when a league needs members to make it happen. You'll be doing the game a service, and also speed up your incarnate process by a factor of 10.
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No. The game was fine before raid content, it'll be fine when the itrials become impossible to start.| Moral of the story: soloists need lots of people to subscribe to the game in order for it to be profitable enough to survive. Even if you hate teaming, you should go out and join an iTrial once in a while when a league needs members to make it happen. You'll be doing the game a service, and also speed up your incarnate process by a factor of 10. |
Game needs subscribers, huh? Too bad my VIP status is dead until we get a solo incarnate path I can tolerate.
Be well, people of CoH.
I don't know.. I decided to test this so i grabbed a 50 I hadn't done any trials with OR even opened the Alpha slot doing the Mender arc... After an hour of constant street hunting I had managed to acquire 2% of the iXP required and 2 threads. Now having done trials since they appeared i know I could run a BAF and LAM in about that same time and walk ou with 10-11 Astrals (40-44 threads when converted), 2 Emps (another 40 threads converted) and at the very least 2 common components. I know they wanted to make the process slower but ..two quick trials = enough threads and components to slot two powers to teir 1 while an hour of street hunting = ??? 2 threads!
I ran all of the arcs on my SoA and took merits at the end of each rather than components... That wasn't too bad I got emps twice and astrals for all the others and averaged at 3-4 threeads per arc. Now my crab has teir 4s in everything so it was just an experiment but if I'd cash in the Astrals and Emps for threads I'd have about 80-90 threads and that would slot one power to tier 1 and start a second.
DA is quickly becoming THE trial zone on Virtue mainly because it allows us to roam the streets huntng for threads between trials.. and aside from a crafting table everything you had in the RWZ is right there by the hospital.. inspirations (see the combat nurse in the Hospial lobby), Merit vender, enhancement store, and access to bases. About the only thing missing is quick access to the market .. Villain side all you had to do was step out into Cap and Hero side got to FF and quickly take the train to Talos. Of course I have /auctionhouse available so its been a while since any amrket actually saw me. lol
Maybe today i'll run the arcs with a Brute and see what sort of drops I get.
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Speaking of DA being the new iTrial hub, can you be in a pre-form while flashbacking the arcs (since they function(ed) like TFs) or is the "incarnate" activity limited to street sweeping and Ephram?
The disparity between trials and solo/small groups is absurd. The other day I got into a TPN trial. I had no clue at any time what was going on, there was so much chaos on my screen that I'm pretty sure I got a mild sunburn from all the flashes, and I spent 75% of my time standing around helplessly with no idea where to go or what to do. Yet I came out with 2 Emp, 8 Astral, and 50+ threads.
Contrast this with a small group where I can actually read and enjoy the content, not race about frantically trying to keep up with 15+ other people, and have the luxury of oh, seeing my surroundings in between the SFX of all the powers going off. To get what I got in that one TPN trial I'd have to do days and days of DA grinding.
I'm not a strict soloer, but large groups are just no fun to me. A 2-5 person team feels good, and is more "comic-y" anyhow. How many active members do the Avengers(tm) or JLA(tm) have normally anyhow? Usually not 16+.
So while I think the DA content is excellent, the incarnate awards are absurdly stingy. Re-running the same content over and over and over and over is boring no matter how good the content is - it pales after the 5th time or so.
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Active on Justice & Triumph
(Speaking strictly from the PoV of a 100% Solo player - no iTrials or teams ever.)
I really do not understand the dissing of the T1 powers. With absolutely no regret, for one character, I've slotted T1 in both Lore and Judgement. The addition of those two powers substantially improved my play and made me feel much more powerful.
On another character, I went for the T3 level shift at the expense of opening up multiple powers and I must say, that character feels much less powerful than the previous one.
Really, for the soloist, a level shift or two is useful only for easier fighting against some bosses/EB/AV mobs. If your never going to play an itrial with level shift requirements, slotting multiple T1 and T2 powers will also make such fights easier even without a level shift.
IMO, the T3 level shift is highly overrated for the solo player and by going for it at the expense of slotting a variety of T1 and T2 powers, they are robbing themselves of the pleasure and fun of having a noticeably improved Incarnate character sooner rather than later.
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I agree with some of your points, the Mastermind I have been focusing on with DA has T2 Alpha, T2 Interface, T1 Judgement and T1 lore. I like having the variety of abilities and it has improved my play without question. One can certainly argue that soloist do not strictly *need* level shifts and T3/4 abilities.|
Originally Posted by Fritzy
(Speaking strictly from the PoV of a 100% Solo player - no iTrials or teams ever.)
I really do not understand the dissing of the T1 powers. With absolutely no regret, for one character, I've slotted T1 in both Lore and Judgement. The addition of those two powers substantially improved my play and made me feel much more powerful. On another character, I went for the T3 level shift at the expense of opening up multiple powers and I must say, that character feels much less powerful than the previous one. Really, for the soloist, a level shift or two is useful only for easier fighting against some bosses/EB/AV mobs. If your never going to play an itrial with level shift requirements, slotting multiple T1 and T2 powers will also make such fights easier even without a level shift. IMO, the T3 level shift is highly overrated for the solo player and by going for it at the expense of slotting a variety of T1 and T2 powers, they are robbing themselves of the pleasure and fun of having a noticeably improved Incarnate character sooner rather than later. |
The counter point however is that I pay $15 a month the same as everyone who runs iTrials. I am already not getting to see that content, should I further be denied the opportunity to continue advancing my favorite character in meaningful ways? Somehow the $15 a month all those trial players pay is more important than the $15 I pay? I understand it is my choice if I don't want to see that content, no worries. But being denied the opportunity for furthering character advancement is pretty hard to swallow.
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Are you denied (by the game) the ability to run iTrials? If not then it's not applicable.|
Originally Posted by Humility
The counter point however is that I pay $15 a month the same as everyone who runs iTrials. I am already not getting to see that content, should I further be denied the opportunity to continue advancing my favorite character in meaningful ways? Somehow the $15 a month all those trial players pay is more important than the $15 I pay? I understand it is my choice if I don't want to see that content, no worries. But being denied the opportunity for furthering character advancement is pretty hard to swallow.
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It would be like me complaining why my new i22 character isn't level 50 yet. I pay my sub - is my sub worth less than those that do already have level 50 Issue 22 characters?
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Your comparison doesn't really make much sense to me, but whatever. Doesn't matter why I can't run the trials, just that I cannot. As such I should be denied the ability to advance my character? The point I was trying to make is pretty simple. If you want to argue simply for the sake of arguing, I'm not terribly interested.
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Are you denied (by the game) the ability to run iTrials? If not then it's not applicable.
It would be like me complaining why my new i22 character isn't level 50 yet. I pay my sub - is my sub worth less than those that do already have level 50 Issue 22 characters? |
I believe there should be a soloist path. And mabey this is to slow. Maybe it is not. I cannot answer that. But a soloist path should be put in. A solist pays the same as anyone.
1) maybe they lilke solo
2) maybe their on a dead server
3) maybe their in the middle
4) maybe their anti social
5) maybe they are not pros and have been kicked or called newbs and dont like the feeling they get cause they dont know the exact method to run a master keyes
i dont care but a soloist is now penalized from what i see
i ran a DA farm i was level shifted to +1
it was the kill romuls army misson from sister in chimiorea
it will not be possible to get to t3 in under 50 farm runs
yes 50 I have run 10 so far the rates are so low as to be a laugh.
So even a solo farmer will not get to do what they want. Hoever i am not a soloist. SO something inbetween needs to be done
maybe something like a 20-40 misson arc with a gauranteed rare/very rare at the end.
I see the points the non farmers and non teamers or slow server people are making
I feel your pain
Just my .02.
The thread drops seem to be fine. I average 3-4 per mission (set to 8).
However the reward tables leave much to be desired. I completed 4 (or 5 my memory isn't great) arcs and each one I rolled common salvage. It would have been nice to get anything other than common at least once. I know my sample size is small so I'm not sweating it too much... yet.
I also got 3 Catalysts which I don't plan on using so the drop rate really doesn't matter to me.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
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And reduce my enjoyment of the game by a million.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
Even if you hate teaming, you should go out and join an iTrial once in a while when a league needs members to make it happen. You'll be doing the game a service, and also speed up your incarnate process by a factor of 10.
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The game is not a charity to give money to, but more than that, it's not a cult to sacrifice my time and enjoyment to.
In my own slightly deluded opinion, I think the reason that the drop rates are so low is two-fold. 1) There's no Solo in MMO and 2) This is one of the things that the devs do not want to be farmable. Do I agree with these reasons 1) No, because I play solo a lot due to time constraints 2) Yes, I am not a fan of farming, with the proviso that being an Incarnate necessitates engaging in a fair amount of agricultural exploits.
My solution, up the drop rates for solo play slightly.
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Yes, by the developers' inability to make them more fun than hernia surgery.
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Are you denied (by the game) the ability to run iTrials?
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Just a quick question, is Max's arc not supposed to give a reward table at the end? Since you can skip 3 of the missions and essentially make it a one-mission arc, I figured it was WAI when the reward table didn't appear (although I did do all 4 missions anyway), but I wanted to confirm it.
I'll throw my nickel into the kitty as well.
First, I'm *very* pleased that there IS a solo path - it's a great start.
Second, the story arcs were fabulous! Never has my character felt more epic
and heroic than he did through those arcs, and "Saving Cimorora" hands-down
kicked SSA's backside from here to eternity and back...
Stopping the war singlehandedly (I naively went in alone) was incredible (it took
me about an hour and I used every trick I could think of to do it).
Wow! My squishy E3 Blaster felt pretty d*mn impressive after living through that!
Followed by: Instant deflation when the reward was - a Common 
For some numbers - My Blaster had Alpha, Judgement, and Interface already
when he began the DA Journey - he was at 45% Lore and 65% Destiny.
After running *all* of the DA arcs (virtually no street sweeping, unless a group
was blocking the door), he had received 41 threads, a couple astrals, and he'd
progressed to 68% and 88% on Lore and Destiny respectively.
On each "Finale" I rolled the component -- 1 Uncommon, the remainder were
all Common.
I'm not sure how many missions comprise the full story line, but it's gotta be
around 20. Enjoying the stories, that was several hours of time spent over
a couple days.
After finishing the last story (Excellent), I happened to see a BAF forming in DA,
so I joined. Result? 6 Threads, 2 Astrals, a Common, and my Lore was at 88%
(net 20% gain) -- for 20 mins of waiting (including a mistaken entry into the
DD trial by the league Captain - ewps 
), and another 20 mins of actual effort.
Some disparity, I fully understand - but this gap is a chasm...
Further, even at 0/1, those DA missions were challenging - I could easily see
where some characters might not even be able to solo the "solo" missions (It's
interesting to note that most of them recommend "Bring Friends").
I think the increased Risk deserves better Reward, though I fully understand
(and conceptually agree with) the need to balance between soloists, teams
running DA content, and leagues running iTrials.
It's early in the process, but I'd hope for some improvement there going forward.
That said, the content itself, was some of the best I've seen to-date.
Kudos to the writers!
Regards,
4
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there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
I wasn't aware that there was a timer across all arcs and that it was 20 hours. That seems a bit harsh. Not draconian, but 'somewhat' stingy. With 6 arcs, I think a good solution would be to have arcs 1, 3 and 5 on a timer and 2, 4 and 6 on a different timer.
As for the content - A#1. Very nice.