Over/Under on a Patch to get Converters in
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2012-03-08 19:32 in The Market and Inventions
If only there was some way to look at the actual data in the baserecipes.bin file which is compressed and archived within the bin.pigg file. Even if I could do that, I would have to reverse engineer the file format and figure out what all the fields mean. At that point, it would probably be pretty easy to look at the differences before and after Converters went live with Reward Merits, and see if the same changes are being done to the recipes for Alignment and Incarnate merits.
But that would be wrong.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
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For reference, it costs me on average 2 converters to make 70-100 mil, and 6 converters to make 200mil on a single sale. The 2 converter niche moves slow but sure. The big niche just moves slow...|
Originally Posted by Plasma
...at least post later to remind me what a fool I was, once the niche is common knowledge. Curiosity piqued.
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On average your numbers are about right. I end up with 35-45mil per converter.
Regarding kinetic combats, NOT A GOOD NICHE :| :| :| :|. I had thought I figured a good way to get them, but you just get really ****** rolls. I ended up blowing ~30 converters to get just 2 kincombats. I think there is a better way to do it, but. Kincom just was a catastrophically bad investment strategy.
Had I moved on instead of having been stubborn, I could have been rolling in cash with those 30 converters :|
edit: Its possibly to reliably make more than 50 mil per converter. However, my pockets arent deep enough to do it. And, I am way too nervous to try marketing with expensive things. Right now I have the most liquid inf I have _ever_ had in the entirety of my playing, and I am loathe to part with it....
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Hew in drag baby
Quote:
Fair enough. I have done zero this week (business trip, now posting from the airport waiting to come home...), but prior, I was using any converters to convert purples. It's 2.25 to go from a non-damage to a damage, and I was buying them up for 152m or less. I'd get 300. -30m in fees leaves 118m in profit. 118m/2.25 converters = 52.4m per converter, or more like ~50 after salvage. YMMV. As time went on, though, the market of purples available to buy at my buy price was definitely dwindling. The week after converters I bought a hundred that way. The next week I bought 50. It was looking to be more like ~20 after (half of which, oddly, were pre-crafted).|
Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
For reference, it costs me on average 2 converters to make 70-100 mil, and 6 converters to make 200mil on a single sale. The 2 converter niche moves slow but sure. The big niche just moves slow...
On average your numbers are about right. I end up with 35-45mil per converter. |
Quote:
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Regarding kinetic combats, NOT A GOOD NICHE :| :| :| :|. I had thought I figured a good way to get them, but you just get really ****** rolls. I ended up blowing ~30 converters to get just 2 kincombats. I think there is a better way to do it, but. Kincom just was a catastrophically bad investment strategy.
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I am finding the whole converter deal to be bittersweet. I'm pleased that I have multiple ways to get hard to come buy enhancements. However, I find that I don't really have any motivation to do anything.
I used to do story arcs and tfs for merits to convert into alignment merits to get random rolls and craft for profit.
Then I would do story arcs and tfs for merits to convert into converters and change "junk" ios to pricy ones and sell for profit.
But, now, I have lots of profit. For the first time ever, instead of keeping my inf in e-mail, I've had to get lesser used toons to do lowball bids on pricy items.
I hope they come up with something good and interesting to spend the inf on. Otherwise, the marketing is pretty much pointless now. I used to do it to fund the alts, but now, unless prices go back up to where they were, I won't have to farm or market ever again - at least, not in the foreseeable future.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
So, just something for the marketeers to chew on.
We've seen countless posts about people making untold billions of inf off converters.
If so many people are making inf, who is losing it?
Inf doesn't grow on trees. Well, actually it does, but I'm assuming that the amount of inf generated or farmed would be about the same regardless of if converters existed or not. So, given that, who is coming up with so many billions less than they would have otherwise?
This isn't one of those moral judgment posts (zomg the market cartel is hoarding the luck charms!!! 
) or any of that crap, just academic curiosity. Who do you guys think is on the red side of the account ledger?
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The buyers?|
Originally Posted by Codewalker
So, just something for the marketeers to chew on.
We've seen countless posts about people making untold billions of inf off converters. If so many people are making inf, who is losing it? Inf doesn't grow on trees. Well, actually it does, but I'm assuming that the amount of inf generated or farmed would be about the same regardless of if converters existed or not. So, given that, who is coming up with so many billions less than they would have otherwise? This isn't one of those moral judgment posts (zomg the market cartel is hoarding the luck charms!!! ) or any of that crap, just academic curiosity. Who do you guys think is on the red side of the account ledger? |
My guess is that the number of active marketeers is probably less than a hundred, definitely lower than one thousand. There's likely to be hundreds of players for every marketeer, if not thousands. And those hundreds of players are probably earning hundreds of millions to billions of inf a week per marketeer. The players amassing influence are probably getting it collectively from large numbers of players who aren't. And I suspect the number of people who continuously amass influence even after they have a hundred billion or more is even lower, because past that point there's little point to it and it becomes more work to manage than it can possibly benefit them.
I would bet also that the people making billions one week might often be the same people spending billions another week to outfit a new alt, tossing a percentage of that influence back into circulation to make someone else a few billion that week.
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You and I were probably fighting over the recipes, because I noticed several of them with 152M and change that I was overbidding just enough to get the pieces. I can't imagine using converters for anything other than churning purples, right now, it's just too reliable. Even if the baseline keeps creeping higher, it's still way more money per converter compared to even really good low-investment niches, and it's actually getting *better* over time, at least until the Emp/Astral/Align patch finally goes live. (Which probably leaves those of use with Reward Merits left only a couple days to squeeze out a little more profit.)
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Originally Posted by Plasma
Fair enough. I have done zero this week (business trip, now posting from the airport waiting to come home...), but prior, I was using any converters to convert purples. It's 2.25 to go from a non-damage to a damage, and I was buying them up for 152m or less. I'd get 300. -30m in fees leaves 118m in profit. 118m/2.25 converters = 52.4m per converter, or more like ~50 after salvage. YMMV. As time went on, though, the market of purples available to buy at my buy price was definitely dwindling. The week after converters I bought a hundred that way. The next week I bought 50. It was looking to be more like ~20 after (half of which, oddly, were pre-crafted).
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Quote:
I would imagine that a significant chunk of the player base isn't really paying attention to the changes in the supply and demand curves, and they're just so happy that purples have dropped by half that they're spending their hard-earned stashes. There's a lot of people in this game that don't *do* marketing, they just play a lot. The people making money hand over fist are exploiting a temporary imbalance, but the basic source of currency hasn't changed. All the currency in this game eventually derives from people killin' d00ds. So we don't even need to postulate that anyone "lost" money in order for a select few to be getting filthy-stinkin', they're just catching a greater-than-normal share of the same revenue stream that's always existed.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The buyers?
My guess is that the number of active marketeers is probably less than a hundred, definitely lower than one thousand. There's likely to be hundreds of players for every marketeer, if not thousands. And those hundreds of players are probably earning hundreds of millions to billions of inf a week per marketeer. The players amassing influence are probably getting it collectively from large numbers of players who aren't. And I suspect the number of people who continuously amass influence even after they have a hundred billion or more is even lower, because past that point there's little point to it and it becomes more work to manage than it can possibly benefit them. I would bet also that the people making billions one week might often be the same people spending billions another week to outfit a new alt, tossing a percentage of that influence back into circulation to make someone else a few billion that week. |
Every day I come across one or two people who were completely clueless about converters - as they ask the question in global chat -What's this enhancement converter?
When explained to them what they are, they simply claim "Wow!".
As for me, even though I've made over 20 billion since they went live, I still had to buy a set of oblits, and I'd already run out of my stash of kin combats. I thought about getting them the way I usually do - which is use here merits to get any of them that were priced over 40 million- but what's the point of having all this inf, especially when I know I can make 175 million (give or take a few) with a couple of cheap converters?
Admittedly, I'm awaiting the change to allow use of alignment merits. Running sort of low, though it's easy enough to just run an SSA on a toon to get 20 fast reward merits and get a couple of converters.
So yesterday, I spent about a billion on a set of oblits and two sets of kin combats and some rectified reticles. But, in the respec, I took out of the build some glad strikes which have already repaid the investment, plus some change.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
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Take some of those claims with a grain of salt. Someone with a total post count of 1 claimed they had made 150 billion. Right. This is the Internet after all. Claims of tens of billions from people who appear to know what they are talking about are perfectly reasonable.|
Originally Posted by Codewalker
We've seen countless posts about people making untold billions of inf off converters.
If so many people are making inf, who is losing it? |
As to losing it, no one really. Enhancement Converters let you spin straw into gold. The price of straw goes up, and the price of gold goes down. But the gold it still gold, and everyone wants it. The Devs are basically giving gold away now to anyone who wants it.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
At first I thought I'd lost out on any chance at making back my initial investment by not getting in quickly and dumping Glad procs, but then I realized that everything I had stockpiled, the junk PvP IOs and purples, had shot up 200-300% in value. I broke even by a very comfortable margin.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
Quote:
This.
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Originally Posted by TopDoc
As to losing it, no one really. Enhancement Converters let you spin straw into gold. The price of straw goes up, and the price of gold goes down. But the gold it still gold, and everyone wants it. The Devs are basically giving gold away now to anyone who wants it.
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Hew in drag baby
I'm too busy using Converters to make the purpled-out builds I want and saving billions rather than use them make billions. A billion saved is a billion earned.
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People who sold purple sleep recipes at normal purple sleep recipes, a month ago (50 million?), made normal sleep recipe money. | Who do you guys think is on the red side of the account ledger? |
I crafted and held those sleep recipes, converted them, and made normal [say] Apocalypse crafted money (400 million?).
You could see that as them losing money.
People who bought Apocalypses from me paid Apocalypse prices; they could have gotten sleep recipes (still 100-150 million), done their own crafting, done their own conversion, sold [say] a Hecatomb and bought my Apocalypse. They're on the red side of the ledger, by comparison.
Tomorrow, when I'm defensecapping and regenning up my latest Force Fielder, I'll be a buyer. Today I'm a seller.
My general feeling about "Who's losing it?" is, mostly, "People that can afford it."
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That is who is losing.
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Originally Posted by Ukaserex
Every day I come across one or two people who were completely clueless about converters - as they ask the question in global chat -What's this enhancement converter?
When explained to them what they are, they simply claim "Wow!". |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Adding to the post above:|
Originally Posted by Codewalker
Who do you guys think is on the red side of the account ledger?
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Anyone who had outstanding bids of more then 500 million for anything. Especially those who were lowballing the 2 billion inf items for 1.5 billion.
Anyone who blindly bids the old costs before converters and isn't looking at the more recent history.
Anyone who is buying right now on the more expensive ones that are creeping back up in price. The next round of Converter accessibility will depress those prices.
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I just realized there was no dev post about a live publish. Does this mean we're headed to 6 weeks with broken converters? Or might build 2230.201203280247.1 publish without an announcement? Blah.
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It wouldn't be the first time.
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Originally Posted by Plasma
I just realized there was no dev post about a live publish. Does this mean we're headed to 6 weeks with broken converters? Or might build 2230.201203280247.1 publish without an announcement? Blah.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Enhancement Converters can now be purchased for Hero, Villain, Emp, and Astral Merits. Of course the cheapest purples are now getting close to 200M, and the most expensive are usually under 400M, and the big 3 PvPs are 300-400M. Oh well.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
it was like that 1hour after the converter release... so... you missed nothing.
Im expecting prices to drop a bit more 50-300m for purples and 100-200 for pvps. Not a huge drop but enough for them to consistently be lower than the current high tide.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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It's been impossible to buy a purple for under 100m basically since converters came out. They were >50m (all of them, including the bad ones) for months before converters because of people stocking up.|
Originally Posted by Lohenien
Im expecting prices to drop a bit more 50-300m for purples and 100-200 for pvps. Not a huge drop but enough for them to consistently be lower than the current high tide.
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200-300m is more realistic. I think I have ~150m bids on every "bad" purple and haven't gotten a single bid filled in days, even a week. With converters now FAR more accessible, there's no reason to think we're ever going back. ANY purple you get for 200m is now probably more or less a good deal.
PvP IOs are more mysterious. All the prices have spiked massively across the board. There's no way it was worth converting to Gladiator's Armor 3%s prior to today. I suppose someone was doing it, but it was a huge waste of converters, since converting a Gladiator's Net to a Glad Armor 3% required ~20-21 converters for a ~200m profit, or 10m per converter, and purples were good for 3-5x that. And ironically, the "desirable" pvp ios are actually now oversupplied and underpriced, in a sense. I think I sold a non-proc Panacea for >300m; more than a Glad Armor proc would go for.
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Wow, this is interesting. I have totally missed this, because I have been running niches that dont involve anything purple or pvp. Very interesting. I guess I cant afford purples on market anymore....
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Originally Posted by Plasma
It's been impossible to buy a purple for under 100m basically since converters came out. They were >50m (all of them, including the bad ones) for months before converters because of people stocking up.
200-300m is more realistic. I think I have ~150m bids on every "bad" purple and haven't gotten a single bid filled in days, even a week. With converters now FAR more accessible, there's no reason to think we're ever going back. ANY purple you get for 200m is now probably more or less a good deal. PvP IOs are more mysterious. All the prices have spiked massively across the board. There's no way it was worth converting to Gladiator's Armor 3%s prior to today. I suppose someone was doing it, but it was a huge waste of converters, since converting a Gladiator's Net to a Glad Armor 3% required ~20-21 converters for a ~200m profit, or 10m per converter, and purples were good for 3-5x that. And ironically, the "desirable" pvp ios are actually now oversupplied and underpriced, in a sense. I think I sold a non-proc Panacea for >300m; more than a Glad Armor proc would go for. |
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Hew in drag baby
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Was this because you only bought the cheap-o ones? Because the ones that used to be most expensive are now cheaper than they have been in ages.
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Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
I guess I cant afford purples on market anymore....
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.