Hulk is a textbook Brute. In fact, he's arguably the basis for the entire Brute AT.
I think /WP fits his abilities better than /Inv, because he has improved speed/reflexes and a healing factor in addition to his durability. His anger often protects him from mental assaults, too, which is better matched by /WP's lesser psi hole. Still, neither set is a perfect translation of his specific abilities.
Yeah, I agree with the above poster. Textbook Brute.
Goodbye. Not to the game, but the players. Goodbye. Everyone, remember to have fun. That's all I can say.
Ooops, forgot to say I think Hulk is a SS/WP brute as well. May have been a little hesitant on the brute part before they could be heroes though. 
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Hulk is a textbook Brute. In fact, he's arguably the basis for the entire Brute AT.
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The tanker community's suggestions were the basis for the brute, right down to the way the fury mechanic works.
And the Hulk would most accurately be considered a pre-GDR/ED tank with blaster level damage caps, filled completely with pre-nerf 50% HO's.
Wouldn't you like to play something like that, once in a while? =]
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*sigh, I remember those....
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Originally Posted by Acemace
pre-nerf 50% HO's
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I think it's better to talk about really powerful comic characters as just being high level, rather than having really powerful builds. But yeah, many comic book heroes (especially the ones that get their own books) don't fit perfectly into the "box" of a single AT.
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Originally Posted by Acemace
And the Hulk would most accurately be considered a pre-GDR/ED tank with blaster level damage caps, filled completely with pre-nerf 50% HO's.
Wouldn't you like to play something like that, once in a while? =] |
the hulk has to be a brute hands down. the whole fury mechanic was probably based off the hulk himself. someone like the juggernaut would be a tank imo.
and i'll say Willpower. WP's Quick Recovery, Fast Healing/rttc, and most importantly Psionic Resistance edges out INV imo.
although i have to add. INV in the grand scheme of things does make more sense in terms of WP being just superhuman. INV should be the hulk but the way it's actually made in-game WP wins. by the names alone, i'd say INV would be the hulk, and WP would be captain america... that said, INV's psi hole, no recovery, and burst heal loses against WP's Psi resistance, recovery, and regen.
The other ten debate threads on this topic in the past determined him to be a SS/WP Brute. Game over.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Ok I hate to disagree on things but the problem I see with the Hulk is this which one? there has been 3 different Hulks for starters. Anyone remember the grey hulk? but to be honest I think he is more ok a mix of both Brute and Tank, inv/wp to throw into the mix. A few reasons behind this, 1 he can with stand more then say a brute can but he can also dish out more then a tank can. 2 He is invincible to lot of things but there has been times he did get weaken by mental attacks when he first appeared but later he was able to with stand it.
I think of The Hulk as the classic green one. So goin' off of that.
He's a SS/WP Brute, hands down. Yes, he has Tank like abilities, but he's more Brute by far. Yes, he could be Invuln, but WP just fits his modus operandi better.
And regards the mental attacks... not even WP is immune to the -regen Psi attacks. At first. And really, never to any complete extent. He just needed more slots. 
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
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He would be, if Rage buffed resistance. SS/WP Brute is probably the closest mechanical player-available analog, though.|
Originally Posted by houtex
He's a SS/WP Brute, hands down.
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My only hedge on that is that Brutes have more offense than defense, and Tankers have more defense than offense, and when I compare the Hulk's own offense to his own defense when enraged, I believe the Hulk is usually depicted to be tougher than he is strong: The Hulk can't knock out the Hulk, the Hulk can survive the Hulk, basically. That makes him more of a Tanker.
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TBH, this has become a bit wacky at this point. How is it that the the fury effect in Brutes and how the Hulk becomes stronger the more he rages not considered the central point in all of this?
If it were some other Super hero I guess I could understand a tanker call, but it has no mechanic that is like rage/fury the central point of the entire character Hulk. IDK, I guess people have to argue about something here...have at it.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Because in the Hulk fury acts far more to make him indestructible than offensively powerful, while Brute fury does the reverse.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
TBH, this has become a bit wacky at this point. How is it that the the fury effect in Brutes and how the Hulk becomes stronger the more he rages not considered the central point in all of this?
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"The angrier Hulk gets, the stronger he gets" is the character's core concept. "Hulk smash!", "Hulk is the strongest one there is!", etc. Hulk is pure, unbridled offense.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Because in the Hulk fury acts far more to make him indestructible than offensively powerful, while Brute fury does the reverse.
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Actually, my recollection is that the Hulk often said "Hulk is the strongest one there is" or words to that effect not to punctuate his offensive prowess, but rather during or after surviving an attack to punctuate his belief that nothing could defeat him. |
Originally Posted by Vox Populi
"The angrier Hulk gets, the stronger he gets" is the character's core concept. "Hulk smash!", "Hulk is the strongest one there is!", etc. Hulk is pure, unbridled offense.
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In fact, I believe that "Hulk is the strongest one there is" most often referred more directly to the assertion that nothing could defeat the Hulk, not that the Hulk could defeat anything.
Of course, its the Hulk. I think the two concepts are largely inseparable most of the time to him. But there are lots of things that for a variety of reasons the Hulk could not actually defeat, but he still believed could not defeat him either.
And if you buy into the Peter David run's assertion that the Hulk is actually a fragment of Banner's psyche that was created when he was abused as a child, such personalities can lash out but are designed primarily to protect the person. "Hulk is strongest there is" is the assertion of a protective personality saying nothing can hurt me.
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Actually with him they seemed to go hand in hand, but I guess like beauty it is in the eye of the beholder and we are in the Tanker forum afterall lol.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Because in the Hulk fury acts far more to make him indestructible than offensively powerful, while Brute fury does the reverse.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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I disagree, mostly.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
My only hedge on that is that Brutes have more offense than defense, and Tankers have more defense than offense, and when I compare the Hulk's own offense to his own defense when enraged, I believe the Hulk is usually depicted to be tougher than he is strong: The Hulk can't knock out the Hulk, the Hulk can survive the Hulk, basically. That makes him more of a Tanker.
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The classic savage green Hulk is all about offense. Contrast him with grey Hulk/Mr. Fixit, who doesn't have the rage boosting mechanic, and it's the area of damage and strength he loses out on. Grey-Fixit have never been shown to be considerably less durable than Green, but they have shown to be less offensively capable and weaker.
"The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets" has never applied strictly to his resistance to damage or regenerative abilities. It's mostly about his over all offensive power level. It's not his regeneration that allowed him to hold up a mountain in Secret Wars, after all.
I'm willing to accept the argument that maybe his defensive capabilities do increase to a certain degree, but it's mostly his strength and offense that gets boosted.
Really, if I was going to model it properly in game, instead of a damage buff Fury would provide level shifts.
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As to if Hulk is a Tanker or a Brute...
He's both.
When CoH First launched, he was a Tanker.
Tankers were supposed to represent super strong and invulnerable heroes from comics. Even Hulk. Jack Emmert used to compare Tankers to the Hulk. The problem was, Tankers had fail damage. Super strong characters from comics, tend not to. To address this, they designed the Fury mechanic, the one everyone agrees it's pretty much supposed to be Hulk-like, FOR TANKERS.
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That in bold, is Fury. Designed and intended FOR TANKERS. Tankers never got it. Instead, they packaged it up and used it so sell boxes of CoV to people fed up with Tankers and their fail damage. And that is the origin of Brutes.|
As promised, I've been looking into the issues facing Tankers; I thought I'd explain the direction we're going. As we analyed it, Tankers have three very valid concerns (aside from the issues with specific power sets): 1. Without Provoke, they are not a real Tanker. Those people who enjoy the MMP role of "meat shield" have trouble holding aggro properly. 2. The Tanker's defense stats can be matched by a properly slotted Scrapper - but the Tanker can not approach the Scrapper in damage. 3. The Tanker doesn't "feel" like a comic book Tanker should. And frankly, this one really, really bothered me. Because our game is a comic book MMP. So - here's the solution we're going to try internally. We went through a ton of possible solutions, and we weighed each one against how well they answered the three points above as well as how long it would take to get done. 1. Tankers will get a "provoke" like AOE effect on their melee attacks. The more a Tanker lands his blows, the more and more mobs he'll attract. The bonus here is that it's not exactly like Provoke (it's not ranged) - but it makes a lot of sense. Some huge monstrosity is bashing the heads of a villain group - they're going to get more and more concerned about taking him/her out.... 2. As a Tanker lands more and more blows, he'll start doing more and more damage. The longer the fight, the more powerful the Tanker becomes. I can't say that the Tanker will do as much damage as a Scrapper - but it'll certainly be more than he does now. This ability really gets to the core of a comic book Tanker. He's extremely powerful - but at the start of a fight, he holds himself back some. As the battle progresses, he lets loose....I prefer this system to a power because this way it's inherent. It's simply the nature of the Archetype. And it also sets the Tanker apart from the Scrapper's criticals. Of course, the thought in your minds must be....WHEN?...I'm afraid I don't know. First, we need some code for this. Then we've got to test it thoroughly. Finally, it'll go on the Test Server for awhile to gather data and impressions. This is going to take some time; but I thought you'd like to know at least where we're going, even though we don't know when we'll get there. |
So the truth is Hulk is both because Brutes are the Tanker's better designed successor and Tankers are, well, just an outmoded joke of an AT the devs threw under a bus that still hit like little girls.
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This is a very easy one. Hulk is a brute, and he switches from vigilante to rouge any time he wants. Big monster attacking city hero, pissed off that he was sent into deep space villain.
He is also a ss/wp and all Io'd out. Yes Hulk can withstand a ton of damage but his healing factor is crazy high as well. This is really on display when he fights people who can pierce is skin and he heals very fast. When hulk is in his battle furry in the comics he would have mind control Resistance so that would explain the psi protection.
Like many superheros its hard to explain the powers in game due to having to balance out the gameworld vs comics.
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The repeated statement from Marvel when they talk about the Hulk's strength is that it is unbounded--the angier he gets the stronger he gets. The Hulk's toughness does not change (short of him turning back into Bruce Banner).|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
He would be, if Rage buffed resistance. SS/WP Brute is probably the closest mechanical player-available analog, though.
My only hedge on that is that Brutes have more offense than defense, and Tankers have more defense than offense, and when I compare the Hulk's own offense to his own defense when enraged, I believe the Hulk is usually depicted to be tougher than he is strong: The Hulk can't knock out the Hulk, the Hulk can survive the Hulk, basically. That makes him more of a Tanker. |
Also, while the Hulk is labelled a hero, in setting he is of much more dubious orientation.
Under construction
Textbook brute. The Fury mechanic is nearly the definition of his rage. And Brute defense scaling works acceptably - particularly when you figure in some incarnate level support. Pure brute.
I have generally considered him Invul though... He has a strong will, and all, but that sure doesn't cover the range of 'that didn't hurt, no really... didn't break the skin' he has presented over the years.
Whether one person or a thousand tick him off, doesn't matter - he still gets 'mad', so the WP, or I guess that Invul, mechanics that require multiple opponents just don't quite fit for me. That leaves Regen as the best model in my opinion. But that probably isn't quite robust enough...
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He can't be both a Brute and a mythological tanker that never existed.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
As to if Hulk is a Tanker or a Brute...
He's both. |
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Tankers are, well, just an outmoded joke of an AT the devs threw under a bus that still hit like little girls.
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R.I.P.
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As a life-long Marvel Comic fan, I believe that the Hulk is both tanker and brute. |
Originally Posted by UNB0UND_4_LIFE
So I recently had a conversation/argument/debate
with a friend on whether or not the Hulk was a tank or a brute, and what his defensive power set was. |
He exhibits both attributes of both ATs. Next to someone like Thor, he has no equal in strength, endurance, and ability to absorb damage. Likewise, in the heat of battle, his strength, size, health and all increase drastically as his temper grows.
During a series in the West Coast Avengers, a psi attack caused the Hulk to go on an uncontrollable rampage. It was stated that his power has no limits the more enraged he becomes. Iron Man only stopped him after he turned off safeties, shunting all power into one single punch; Shell Head knocked Hulk out cold leaving his armor locked up out of power.
Hulk's offensive power is Super Strength while his defensive power consists of Will Power & Invulnerability with some Regeneration too. Psionics is his weakness to which it manipulated him in putting him to sleep or to calm him a few times.
Additionally, I will go a step further. On top of being Bru-tank, he is an incarnate when he is enraged. What powers he possesses is debatable. One thing for sure, his Alpha power is Musculature Radial Paragon. There is no debate there for me.
No one AT can describe him correctly because of his makeup. However, I classify him as a Brute-Tank simply because he represents the best of both sets.
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
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Really? Last night three of us, all 50 lvl none incarnates at the time, completed 3 consecutive missions for Crimson that had us facing Malta/Nemesis, Knives of Artemis, and Carnies/Knives. Our setting was on +1/+5. My tanker, an Electric Armor/Energy Melee, his brute, a SS/WP, and our MM is a Robot/Time Manipulation.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Tankers are, well, just an outmoded joke of an AT the devs threw under a bus that still hit like little girls.
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During our Carnies/Knives encounter, we had to transverse a long hallway with 4 full spawns next to each other. I said, 'no guts no glory,' leapt dead in the middle of them and went about doing my business. The brute followed suit. When the dust cleared, the brute was face down and I mopped up his remaining group along with what remained of the robots.
I know how the brute is equipped and how good this person is using a brute. He is one of the best brute players I've played with. My tanker is equipped rather well too (you can see it in the thread I posted last night in the Design thread).
In the end, I might not have matched his damage ability, I did outperform him, defeated more, and never kissed the ground.
Therefore, your statement I quoted is false and based solely of bias towards a Tanker because you prefer a Brute. A brute is not the be-all to beat-all for melee ATs.
One last point...I almost forgot.
We unlocked our Alpha Slots last night. In the mission to face Honoree and the Captain, he had the captain I had Honoree. I put Honoree down and had to do the same with the captain because he face planted again. After that, I had to take on the entire spawns of Rikiti across the bridge that the brute aggro'd. It was so bad our MM had to retreat after all his robots died.
Take that for what itÂ’s worth. In my mind's eye, a Tanker is far from, as you said, "just an outmoded joke of an AT the devs threw under a bus that still hit like little girls." You're not just wrong about this, your flat out undeniably wrong.
Current active characters: Dragon Maiden (50+3 Brute SS/WP/PM), Black Widow Maiden (50+1 Night Widow), Catayclasmic Ariel (50 lvl Defender - Kin/DP), Quantumshock (50 lvl Elect/Energy/Energy), American's Defender (38 lvl Tanker - SD/Mace), Spider-Maiden (15 lvl Corruptor - RB/PD) & Siren Shrike (15 lvl Defender - Sonic/Sonic). My entire stable.
I think the Hulk is level T4 50+++ maxed out and frankly a little bored with the game. He's happy to help his friends out sometimes and occasionally he'll go bust up some street fight between arch villians from another dimension just to pass the time... but really he'd probably be happier playing his new alt that has different unique challenges he's not expirienced before.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
So I recently had a conversation/argument/debate
with a friend on whether or not the Hulk was a tank or a brute, and what his defensive power set was. Obviously we both readily agreed that the Hulk's offensive set would be Super Strength, but we had trouble agreeing on whether or not the Hulk's defensive set would be Willpower or Invulnerability, and then whether or not he was a tank or a brute. In the end we agreed to disagree and that there may not really be a correct answer LOL but I thought it might be fun to hear other players weigh in on this. 
Of course, could also depend on which "Hulk" we're talking about, since the "smart Hulk" version might qualify.
LOL
"The Hulk's skin is impervious to conventional blades,...is capable of withstanding high caliber bullets...falls from orbital heights." Yeah, those three make for a tough hide. LOL
Here a few of the points that came up in our conversation:
Willpower:
High Pain Tolerance - check, makes sense for the big green machine.
Mind Over Body - for the Hulk? Body Over Mind maybe
Fast Healing - check, Hulk has super regen.
Indomitable Will - ummm, CHECK!
Rise To The Challenge - "The more the odds are against you, the more determined you become...your resolve and the look in your eye is enough to leave most foes shaken." LOL check
Quick Recovery - super stamina, check - the Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier, and can stay pi$$ed off for days! LOL
Heightened Senses - check - "You become more aware of your environment and its hazards...This will increase your Defense versus environmental damage...also allow you to perceive stealthy foes" Compare that to what Marvel's WIKI says on the Hulk: "The Hulk is capable to adapt to inhospitable environments whenever it is necessary...after the Hulk adapts to a hostile environment (like space) he no longer needs sustenance and does not need air, water, food, or sleep." and "The Hulk has the unique ability of being able to see "astral forms"--or ghosts."
Resurgence - "Should you fall in battle, you can Revive yourself from the brink of death." - This was a big argument...Hulk fall in battle? OK, has happened, RARELY.
Strength of Will - check - "extremely resistant to most damage...when it wears off you are left exhausted." Sounds like the Hulk post-battle/pre-transformation back into Bruce Banner.
Invulnerability:
Resist Physical Damage - check, except for "You are naturally tough..." is there anything natural about the Hulk really?
Temp Invulnerability - check, since the Hulk is only temporarily the Hulk and will transform back in Bruce Banner.
Dull Pain - hurt the Hulk and he just gets angrier and stronger? yup, dull pain check!
Resist Elements - check - from Marvel WIKI, "The Hulk is capable of withstanding...pressures extremes, ...maximized heat without blistering, maximized cold without freezing, ...has withstood the impact of a ground zero nuclear explosion and also the Human Torch's Nova Blast, with a temperature of one million degrees Fahrenheit, without any injury."
Unyielding - check, again from Marvel WIKI, "The Hulk was able to withstand a planet-shattering impact at point blank range, and a mighty blast from Galactus...and also to overcome the Onslaught's enormous strength by neutralizing an immobilization."
Resist Energies - check, from WIKI, "For all intents and purposes the Hulk is immortal. Because of his healing factor that regenerates his cells, and the gamma energy and the dark magic he has absorbed that empowers him...overpowering a field of energy with sufficient power to change the orbit of a planet."
Invincibility - "This power is most effective when fighting multiple opponents." LOL, CHECK!!!
Tough Hide - ummm, check!
Unstoppable - "when it wears off you are left exhausted, and drained of almost all Health and Endurance." Again, sounds like the Hulk post-battle/pre-transformation back into Bruce Banner, except for the drained of Health part, which is kind of a critical point.
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Tanker:
"The Tanker can take it and dish it out all at once. The Tanker primarily can absorb vast amounts of damage, and hold his own in a fist fight. But the Tanker lacks any long range punch. The Tanker would prefer just to charge straight ahead anyway."
LOL love that last line! The Hulk would prefer just to charge straight ahead anyway.
Brute:
"Brutes live to fight, and as a Brute you revel in hand-to-hand combat. With strong offensive power sets to inflict pain and impressive defenses to take it, you're the best there is in a straight fight. Protracted battles only makes you mad, and the madder you get, the more damaging your attacks become. You do lack ranged attacks, which could leave you vulnerable to hit and run tactics without some allies to cover you."
OK, go ahead and insert "the Hulk" for "Brute" and then reread this description. LOL "some allies" aka The Avengers?
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OK, there we have it...WP or Invuln, Tanker or Brute? What do you think?