A whacky debate on the Hulk...

Brute.. sure of it. Stronger the more he gets hit! Ofcourse its a brute...

SS/WP is perfect

Posted this in the Brute thread of the same name:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitality Just depends on how you look at it and play it off conceptually. For instance my character has superhuman durability...but how far he can push himself is based on his Willpower...his Strength of Will...if you will. In my opinion...someone like the Juggernaut or Colossus would be closer to the Invulnerability set...while someone like Superman or the Hulk would be closer to the Willpower set...using their strength of will to push themselves even further...be it through rage and anger or pure determination.

...and it's obvious that he is the Brute AT.

Well, since I now seem to have a few folks attention with my deliberate quotes, I've got the following to say:

*steps up on soap box*

I really, really don't care if JB thinks tanks don't do enough dmg or not. He's made his case. Others have said their rebuttals. I'll happily listen to all sides before making an opinion. At heart I'm a moderate. Convince me and I'll back you up. Don't convince me, and I won't. Simple as that. Make statements that make me go "WTF?", well.. then I have a problem. If you're too much of a zealot or extremist, you've lost me.

As someone who has many, many tanks, and many, many brutes and scrappers... I can't agree with with JB's hypothesis. JB's stance tends to weigh too much on the "the end is near" side of life for me to jump on his bandwagon. I've decided I'm just not interested in drinking that kool-aid. Tanks don't hit like "little girls" no matter how repeatedly JB uses that hyperbole. My tanks don't farm as quickly as my brutes, but they survive much better then the brutes do in general. They also defeat mobs fairly quickly. (Funny enough, they can handle the game quite well on their own. )

Neither are they "rodeo clowns", as JB has said many, many times before. They certainly aren't the end all be all on dmg, but when you look at the difference between scrappers, brutes, and tanks, they fall in where they should be. IF there was a discussion talking about lowering the limits of brutes so they weren't as sturdy as tanks(at fully buffed states), JB might have a legitimate argument. I would find it hard to disagree with him there.

There are individuals who know the numbers behind the game much much better then I, Arcanaville to name one, whose opinion on game mechanics and game design I find little fault with even when I do look for those faults. When they say Tanks are fine, it's hard to find faults in their comments. JB has yet to convince me that he should be taken all that seriously.

BTW: Please, stop using quotes from 4, 5, 6, 7 years ago. Life moves on. The game has moved on, and continues to evolve. What was said back then, doesn't necessarily apply now. As has been pointed out many, many times, ad nauseam, the person that JB likes to quote quite often doesn't even work for the company any more. In fact, that other guy went on to start a different franchise that didn't do all that well. Hm... using someone who hasn't had a great track record as your arguments plinth? Yeah, smart move there.

Johnny likes to equate himself to a tank with his oft repeated argument and hyperbole, but to quote Albert Einstein; "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results". JB keeps using the same comments over and over, and seems to expect different results. I'm sticking with Albert for the moment.

Remember, the one thing that is constant in life is change. It's how you deal with change that defines you.

Oh, and one last thing. This thread was initially about where the Hulk falls between Tank or Brute. To me the Hulk, within the game, is more Brute "Giant Monster" then anything. His "Rage" not only adds to his damage, but also adds to his survivability. For me he's closer to a SS/WP brute then anything that currently exists in the game.

*steps off soap box*

And with that, back to your regularly scheduled Soap Opera.

Please. Hulk is clearly invul who is addicted to unstoppable. Hulks crash is in turning back to Banner. WP does not offer the resists the hulks has to non-lethal and smashing damage types, even use of WP T9 power the resist are below the base levels of the other resist sets.

The hulk's real vulnerability is to psi and magic mind control. He has been control by Loki and others use mind control powers and spell. Hulk is particually vulnerable to the sedation powers of telepaths. Hulk is far more vulnerable to mental manipulation and such then he is physical damage. His weak mind and low level INT makes him a almost a perfect patsy for mental manipulation. In the end if there any question to Hulk resistance to psi, Hulk has been possesed by the shadow king and others, so much for his vaulted Willpower.

I checked an old Marvel stat book I had from some Marvel RPG/Card game.
Hulk's Str 20 when calm (Str is resistance to physical damage) 20 is hero max stat, 10 is the max for a human, above 10 is superhuman, Galatus 25 Celestials 30. Hulk's Willpower 9 (which is the high end of human but not superhuman). Hulk did not have any additional resistance to psi. So Hulks resistant to mental attack would be 9 and his resistance to being shot or burned would be 20.

Dr. Strange for example has 16 willpower and 8 psi shield, giving him a 24 resist to psi attack.

Hulk is the definitive SS/Invul brute.

Juggernat on the other is resist to mental and magic powers when wearing his helmet.

I think with willpower most people are confusing a Hero act of will with willpower such as mind over matter. All superheros have been put in situation where they had to use there will to overcome something.

The willpower set CoX is based trainning of the mind over the body. That punch did not inflict any damage because I have control over my body and I decided it did not hurt. The coals will not burn my feet because I will my feet not to be burn. That's not the Hulk.

To me the HULK is a SS/INV brute.

Brute simply because the fury mechanic is tailor-made for the concept.

Invuln because against anything but PSI, there is nothing that comes close to the protection level except stone, which would not fit the concept. And I do believe that a PSI weakness is appropriate for him.

Also, both WP and INV have a means of boosting HPs, which makes sense for this concept, but with perma-DP a Brute would have massively higher HPS than anything but a Tanker.

INV/SS Tanker would obviously be my second choice, but when I think of the hulk, the amount of carnage he can dish out is one of the first things that come to mind. Then, secondly, how tough he is.

Invulnerability all the way.