So...with AE farms and IOs and all...
By
Auroxis,
Posted on: 2012-02-03 17:05 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Gonna go out on a limb here and wager no. The devs aren't going to actively encourage what they consider aberrant behavior no matter how "easy" it already is.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Though it would be nice if we could tweak aggro/target caps to disregard underlings - taking down 1000 Rikti monkeys still takes forever.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
Gonna go out on a limb here and wager no. The devs aren't going to actively encourage what they consider aberrant behavior no matter how "easy" it already is.
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Ironic Rikti wants exploits back.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I would like to point out that... Removing the aggro cap from Tanks does not instantly equal farming. If my Tank can survive herding the entire last map full of Cimerorans on an ITF, I see no reason to not be able to.
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Since when is herding an exploit lol.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Ironic Rikti wants exploits back.
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Since you bring them back to a /devices blaster or trapper that has placed two or three dozen trip mines and moved away, preventing them from detonating until s/he returns, demolishing the entire mob at once. Or my Fire Blaster destroying two or three HUNDRED freakshow at a time in Crey's to level from 35 to 41 in about three hours (back before xp smoothing/patrol xp).
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Originally Posted by Rikti
Since when is herding an exploit lol.
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Guess I had a different definition of exploit in mind.
What I don't understand is WHY you would want this back?
Tank: You guys stand here. I'll herd them up.
*ten minutes later*
Scrapper: I'm bored. Since you haven't aggroed these guys, I'm gonna kill them.
Tank: NOOOOO!! You have to wait until I herd them all! It's more efficient my way!
Scrapper: Whatever. I'm not slowing anything down, hell, I'm speeding it up.
Tank: No! /kick
*ten minutes later*
Tank: OK, I've got them all herded. Blaster, nuke them.
Blaster: ...
Tank: Blaster?
Blaster: ...
Defender: I think he fell asleep.
Controller: This is boring, and I didn't even get any XP. I'm gonna go join Scrapper and punch some faces. /leaveteam
Defender: Sounds good. Me too. /leaveteam
Blaster: Huh? What did I miss?
Tank: Buncha whiners.
Blaster: Oh, they're all herded? Awesome!
Tank: I'm gonna go find a team who knows how to play the game right.
Blaster: /pow_exec_name Inferno
Tank: /leaveteam
Blaster: Wait! Where did you go? Come back! Oh god my spleen!
Yeah... Not my cup of tea.
As far as the aggro cap goes, a simple solution might be to change it from the flat 17 to (16 + (Threat^2)). That way, someone with a Threat Level of 1 would still have the same 17 they do now, using a Threat reducing power could drop it to 16, and Tankers (with a Threat of 4) could aggro up to 32. Groups are still prevented from herding entire zones, but the aggro dynamic becomes more... dynamic.
@Roderick
You make a good point, but the point to this post was to note that herding is indeed no longer efficient, like you said, but, if it's not going to be abused like it used to be, then why is it not allowed for solo or solo w/ a buffer?
I hate teams that herd.
Also I guess you mean herding without agro cap.
That said, it wouldn't bother me how you play, or if agro cap got raised esp,.like Roderick's suggestion.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
I think we just need a 32 target aggro cap for tanks and call it a day.
Note: not entirely related to herding.
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My Tank shud hav 110% res to all, so wen enemies atk me i heal insted of get hurt.
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No-aggro-cap herding was before my time, but I've been told by old timers that one problem with it is that in the more extreme cases it caused lag in or outright crashes of the zone they were in. The system wasn't designed for herding hundred of critters into one spot and hitting them all at once.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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It's ok because it's for fun and everyone's overpowered anyways.
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Originally Posted by NecroOmNomNomicon
My Tank shud hav 110% res to all, so wen enemies atk me i heal insted of get hurt.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
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Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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Roderick nailed this spot on. Herding is boring for the rest of the team, and with the cap on the number of targets on AoE powers, it's actually less efficient than taking out each spawn as you come upon them.|
Originally Posted by Roderick
What I don't understand is WHY you would want this back?
Tank: You guys stand here. I'll herd them up. *ten minutes later* |
Being with a herding tank is especially tedious when the tank is new and not as tough as he thinks he is. I can't count the number of times I've heard a tank say, "I'm going to herd them, wait here." And then he proceeds to run out and promptly faceplant. And since he's in the middle of a nasty mob, the rest of the team has to wait while he comes back from the hospital.
The other problem with raising or removing the aggro cap is that it puts the rest of the team at risk if the tanker happens to lose aggro. That usually winds up with the rest of the team having dozens of angry bad guys targeting them, and often means a team wipe.
The number of targets affected by the biggest regular AoE powers (not Incarnate Judgments) roughly coincides with the aggro cap and the number of mobs in the biggest spawn. Obviously the devs intend teams to deal with single spawns most of the time, the exceptions being ambushes and Incarnate Trials. The AoE limits were put into place over time. It therefore seems unlikely that the devs intend to remove the aggro limit for low-level content.
Eliminating the aggro cap would let a team of incarnates aggro an entire map and then proceed to blow them away 24, 32 or 40 at a time with Judgements. On a team of 8 that would be as many as 320 mobs being defeated in a matter of seconds. That's one of those things that the devs said would trigger MARTY. Since that would reduce everyone's rewards for a time, herding maps would be the last thing we'd want to do. To avoid triggering MARTY you want to spread out the defeats over more time.
steamrolling mobs > herding
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/signed.|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
steamrolling mobs > herding
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I prefer to work for my XPs, not stand around.
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You guys should read above posts before posting |
Originally Posted by Rikti
You make a good point, but the point to this post was to note that herding is indeed no longer efficient, like you said, but, if it's not going to be abused like it used to be, then why is it not allowed for solo or solo w/ a buffer?
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So should you. Whether this is efficient or not is irrelevant; people aren't efficient. Herding has never been efficient for that matter, but the amount of player knowledge back then was even lower than it is right now, including many of the people who like to think they've got it all figured out now (and many of these people will have too much internet pride to admit they were wrong about herding before).
So people would do it again, with the scenarios pointed out above. Yes, we get that you only care about yourself and your own scenario would be "solo dude with buffer". Now, even if you completely lack any empathy, surely you can be intelligent enough to understand other people are not you, and ignoring their concerns because you don't share them isn't going to convince even a toddler.
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Uh, actually...|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
So should you. Whether this is efficient or not is irrelevant; people aren't efficient. Herding has never been efficient for that matter, but the amount of player knowledge back then was even lower than it is right now, including many of the people who like to think they've got it all figured out now (and many of these people will have too much internet pride to admit they were wrong about herding before).
So people would do it again, with the scenarios pointed out above. Yes, we get that you only care about yourself and your own scenario would be "solo dude with buffer". Now, even if you completely lack any empathy, surely you can be intelligent enough to understand other people are not you, and ignoring their concerns because you don't share them isn't going to convince even a toddler. |
Back in Issue 0 herding was the most efficient way to generate experience because powers didn't have target caps, meaning after 5 minutes of waiting a group could demolish every mob in a zone in a matter of seconds with a couple Blasters using BU+Aim+T9 Nuke slotted for 1Acc 5 Dam (no ED either, whoo)... so I have no idea where you got this argument from.
@Draeth Darkstar
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I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
Herding was so boring...please don't bring back those days.
Yes, AE farms are boring as well but that's no reason to bring back no-aggro-cap, no-max-targets-on-AOEs herding.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
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You can do that now in the Fire Cave AE farm. Heck, you can PL a toon from 1-41 in about 2 runs at about 2 hours (little longer for non-optimized builds). Yes you can't do this by yourself like the old Fire Blaster 1-40 street farming days. But farmers are abundant and most people interested in playing this way (PL'ing) already have friends with farming builds/services and/or they have a second account to do it with in the first place.|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Or my Fire Blaster destroying two or three HUNDRED freakshow at a time in Crey's to level from 35 to 41 in about three hours (back before xp smoothing/patrol xp).
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I never will understand the nerfing mentality of the dev group. How much time have they invested in nerfing powers and game behavior that they think resulted in people leveling too fast? It just seems silly to me considering people who DO find that "too fast" will eventually leave the game regardless (usually from boredom).
PL'ing has always existed in this game and it always will. So why not just allow for it, ignore it, and focus on the customers that are in the game for the long haul? By definition, anyone who PL's 1-50 repeatedly, for every character, isn't looking to play the game a long time anyways. So get their money, keep 'em happy while they are here, and when they leave you've not invested all this wasteful time/effort trying to make them leave in the first place? They did it for free.
Herding is boring for teams unless you have, lets say a Traps toon in with you. Then they can get some use out of their core powers.
But I agree with Mr. DJ, steam rolling > herding...
Unless you're on a Traps toon then by the time you put out your core Trap powers the team is two mobs ahead...
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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Do you seriously believe this? I've played since launch, yet I, along with most of my friends, can't stand leveling without farming.
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Originally Posted by Crysys
By definition, anyone who PL's 1-50 repeatedly, for every character, isn't looking to play the game a long time anyways.
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With how easy it is to level these days and with how the devs are seemingly ok with it, is there any reason we can't have herding back for fun? It's not like Dreck runs will ever touch AE farms.