So we got Roman Pack this week and some new sets in the market
By
-Urchin-,
Posted on: 2012-01-31 01:35 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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The base costume creator already includes a gladius, so you're in luck. If all you care about is "a" sword as opposed to "Romulus Augustus' sword" then you're clear to buy the Roman pack.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
I want to make a roman centurion with a sword at the character creator.
Why do I need to buy the pack if the sword is not included? Yeah I don't. |
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I would say this sums up my feelings well enough. We get a good starter roman sword, the costumes are what people have NEEDED since lvl 1 for concepts.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
It had nothing to do with price. The decision to release this pack without all the weapons is probably just about the best compromise we should have expected from this. It makes the people who wanted the costume items at level 1 happy while keeping something that still needs to be earned via playing through the appropriate content intact. I know some people probably won't agree with me but I consider this a win-win for us.
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Originally Posted by Ghost Falcon
Lothic nailed it.
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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
And is, so far, pretty much the only player to express support for the strategy.
Just, you know... by the way. |
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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
The base costume creator already includes a gladius, so you're in luck. If all you care about is "a" sword as opposed to "Romulus Augustus' sword" then you're clear to buy the Roman pack.
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Don't confuse these guys with facts. Facts have no place in nerd rage posts. So we are supposed to ignore the following facts.
Fact: The basic Roman sword has always been available at level 1. See the Gladius.
Fact: The Roman costume pieces in the pack are unlocked by completing the ITF.
Fact: The devs have said they kept some items that are unlocked by completing the ITF (The Romulus Augustus and Nictus Swords) out of the Roman pack so there is still things to unlock in the ITF.
Fact: The Roman swords and axes that are being complained about were never unlocked by completing the ITF. They are unlocked by completing the Centurion badge which can be completed without ever running an ITF.
Fact: The shields in the Roman pack are also unlocked by earning the Centurion badge, but if the devs included the Swords and axes there would be no reward left for earning the badge.
This bundle is a fair compromise. Players can get shields, armor and a Roman sword at level 1, and the ITF and Centurion badges still have rewards that can be unlocked.
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With the added qualifier that I don't care much either way about this pack, I do agree with this sentiment. I fail to see the logic in how it was decided which weapons to add and which to omit from this pack.|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
Honestly I agree with those who think it would have made more sense for the Romulus stuff to remain ITF exclusive (since that stuff IS directly tied to the ITF's story), while the normal swords were included in the pack.
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It would've made a lot more sense to just leave the Romulus sword and shield exclusive to the ITF and add all the other weapons to this pack.
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I'd question this fact, since you are saying there would be no reward left for getting a reward. If you defeat 100 Romans you currently get a reward of the badge and the unlocked weapons. If they sold the unlocked weapons, killing 100 Romans would still reward you with a badge.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Fact: The shields in the Roman pack are also unlocked by earning the Centurion badge, but if the devs included the Swords and axes there would be no reward left for earning the badge.
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Always remember, we were Heroes.
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Firstly, thanks for that little joking dig at the top. I didn't realise that the Roman weapons and shields that aren't Romulus' aren't awarded with ITF completion, and I went and owned up to that and apologised.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Don't confuse these guys with facts. Facts have no place in nerd rage posts. So we are supposed to ignore the following facts.
~ Fact: The Roman swords and axes that are being complained about were never unlocked by completing the ITF. They are unlocked by completing the Centurion badge which can be completed without ever running an ITF. Fact: The shields in the Roman pack are also unlocked by earning the Centurion badge, but if the devs included the Swords and axes there would be no reward left for earning the badge. |
But, I disagree with you saying there is no reward left for earning the badge.
There is. The badge.
There are lots of defeat badges that don't reward anything. Some people get them because they like the title, some because they're badgers, some just because they happen to defeat enough of X to be entitled to it.
If someone wants the Roman weapons from start enough to buy the pack if they were included, they'll buy the pack. If they didn't feel that strongly about them but wanted them on one or two characters, they'd go and earn the badge. For those that like to have as many costume options as open possible, they'd buy the pack. For those that don't mind? They won't.
That's why in the past I've said about having the Invention Wings and Boots for sale, so that when making a character if I find a combination works, I can get it from the get go and be happy. Otherwise I'm having to look up what the other wings look like, or the boots, and try and cobble imagination and what's on the screen together to see if its worth transfering the inf over to a new character to go to the market, buy the salvage and the recipe, assemble it, then head to a tailor to try it on and hope it's okay.
My preference is include the Centurion stuff and not the Romulus Shield/sword if something has to be excluded.
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weird, you can't earn it by doing those Cimerora paper missions?|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Fact: The Roman swords and axes that are being complained about were never unlocked by completing the ITF. They are unlocked by completing the Centurion badge which can be completed without ever running an ITF.
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Originally Posted by Zortel
There are lots of defeat badges that don't reward anything. Some people get them because they like the title, some because they're badgers, some just because they happen to defeat enough of X to be entitled to it.
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with that said, I'd buy the Rularuu skins for 400 points.
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If that's the case, why are the shields offered in the pack?|
Originally Posted by Lothic
It had nothing to do with price. The decision to release this pack without all the weapons is probably just about the best compromise we should have expected from this. It makes the people who wanted the costume items at level 1 happy while keeping something that still needs to be earned via playing through the appropriate content intact. I know some people probably won't agree with me but I consider this a win-win for us.
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Only shield characters can use them.
For the sake of consistency, I would've rather seen no weapons at all in the pack.
Either way, 23-someodd pieces for 400 pts is okay in my eyes.
But the bow should've been in the Valentine's Pack *shrug*
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
and some get them for the weapon skin that comes w/ defeating x amount of a certain group. .
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You misread, I was stating reasons why people get the Defeat Badges that don't have a weapon customization reward with it.
As in: These badges don't reward various weapons, but here's why people might get them in spite of that.
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What are these two hypothetical groups? No, really, presumably there is a group out there that would be upset if people could access certain swords at level 1. Who are these people? What rationale do they have for that opinion and why should that rationale be respected by anyone?
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Doesn't mean much- only those that object to the strategy have any reason to post anything. FWIW, I don't see any issue with this whatsoever. Seems to be a good way to strike a balance between the two interest groups.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
I'd question this fact, since you are saying there would be no reward left for getting a reward. If you defeat 100 Romans you currently get a reward of the badge and the unlocked weapons. If they sold the unlocked weapons, killing 100 Romans would still reward you with a badge.
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Originally Posted by Zortel
Firstly, thanks for that little joking dig at the top. I didn't realise that the Roman weapons and shields that aren't Romulus' aren't awarded with ITF completion, and I went and owned up to that and apologised.
But, I disagree with you saying there is no reward left for earning the badge. There is. The badge. There are lots of defeat badges that don't reward anything. Some people get them because they like the title, some because they're badgers, some just because they happen to defeat enough of X to be entitled to it. If someone wants the Roman weapons from start enough to buy the pack if they were included, they'll buy the pack. If they didn't feel that strongly about them but wanted them on one or two characters, they'd go and earn the badge. For those that like to have as many costume options as open possible, they'd buy the pack. For those that don't mind? They won't. That's why in the past I've said about having the Invention Wings and Boots for sale, so that when making a character if I find a combination works, I can get it from the get go and be happy. Otherwise I'm having to look up what the other wings look like, or the boots, and try and cobble imagination and what's on the screen together to see if its worth transfering the inf over to a new character to go to the market, buy the salvage and the recipe, assemble it, then head to a tailor to try it on and hope it's okay. My preference is include the Centurion stuff and not the Romulus Shield/sword if something has to be excluded. |
Edit: Oh and Zortel, that wasn't a dig at you in my other post. The dig was at the others who unlike you were/are in their self righteous rages still denying the things I listed. It was meant to be a friendly welcome to the side of reason.
Second Edit: I'm waiting for the "false advertising" accusations and "I'm gonna sue" posts that are so funny to read.
Part of the problem is that the ITF weapon unlocks and the Cimeroran weapon unlocks are both gated by level. It used to be other weapon locks were gated by level, such as the Rularuu ones, but now, a level 1 toon can get a sugar daddy to team up with and get the prerequisite kills in the Shard for the unlocks. You can't do that with Cimerora.
The new DA arcs include missions in Cimerora and one dealing with Requiem. If just one of those missions had Cimerorans in them that didn't require going to Cimerora first, then a level 1 could be sidekicked into them. Or all it would take is one radio mission involving time travel to include Cimerorans. Then all the weapons unlocked with the Cimeroran kill badge would be obtainable at level 1.
The problem isn't so much the lock, but the high level-gate included with the lock. And with the exception of the Incarnate costume, CoH has purposely eschewed the MMO convention of costume=level.
Many people just want access to all the costume pieces from level 1 onward. And we're willing to pay for that or grind end game content for that. And mostly everything that used to be locked is now available for level 1 toons through the Store or Empyrean Merits from an alt. That just a few pieces are not included is daft.
If Romulus' shield had Romulus' face on it, well, that I could see as requiring battling him for it. But 'Nictus' related content is not exclusive to the ITF. There are other lore avenues to justify a character having Nictus-related costuming.
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Think he means the Romulus Nictus sword. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Uhm the regular Gladius is a "normal" Roman sword and it's always been available at level 1.
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By the way, know what would be kind of nice? Rularuu pack. It'd be nice to have the weapons from level 1
. Would prefer that over Roman pack, but that's my opinion.Also as silly as it is, I actually bought the option to get auras and capes at level 1. I personally found it very worth it. It's not entirely silly to buy something you can earn in game.
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Originally Posted by SolarSentai
If that's the case, why are the shields offered in the pack?
Only shield characters can use them. |
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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I clipped down to these two "facts" since they are the only ones relevant here and the others are you just fluffing the word count of your post. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Don't confuse these guys with facts
Fact: The devs have said they kept some items that are unlocked by completing the ITF (The Romulus Augustus and Nictus Swords) out of the Roman pack so there is still things to unlock in the ITF. Fact: The shields in the Roman pack are also unlocked by earning the Centurion badge, but if the devs included the Swords and axes there would be no reward left for earning the badge. |
The first one isn't a "fact" so much as it is a choice. A decision they made. No one denies that you accurately described their choice, only whether it is a stupid choice or not.
And as for the second one there, yes, you are correct again. That does accurately describe what would be true if they did include the weapons for sale. Of course, it does not go on to give any reason why that would be a bad thing, so it approaches the same level of irrelevance as the other "facts" you listed.
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I appreciate your assistance but I did know which weapons that were being referred to. My point was we don't "need" access to the weapons that weren't included in the pack to finish making a Roman themed character at level 1. We've had the common Gladius available at level 1 for years. |
Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
Think he means the Romulus Nictus sword.
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Yes it's true, I was padding my word count because there's a little known feature that awards 5 Paragon Points to veteran forum VIP members for each word in their posts over 25, and 50 points for each image posted. |
Originally Posted by rsclark
the others are you just fluffing the word count of your post.
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You know, something occurs to me, especially now that I've cooled off. I started off trying to make a stand against the Roman pack as not including the weapons, but you know what? I WOULD pay for two packs, and what the Roman pack DOES include is not light at all. It probably has more stuff in it than most other packs we've seen lately.
I asked for this pack, and I got it, at least in part. It's a big pack, it has a lot of cool stuff in it - cool stuff that I WANT - and it's a step in the right direction. Sure, we could have asked for more, but I feel I was wrong to try to boycott the thing, petty as that may sound now. I still feel strongly about not buying the CoT pack, but that was MUCH lighter and missing stuff we will simply never get. The Roman pack is good for what it has in it, and I'm sure we'll get the rest of the weapons in another pack later down the line.
Maybe I SHOULD get this thing after all. Maybe if we do show we want to buy unlockable items off the Market, then more of them will show up. Maybe even the Rularuu weapons?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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So how does this compare to getting the stuff from the ITF? What is different
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Doesn't that, in a way, diminish the "locking the weapons keeps the in-game unlock special" argument more? This means that the rewards for the badge (aside from, you know, the badge itself, but that's neither here nor there -- nearly all badges in the game give no reward beyond the badge itself) only apply to two powersets, and at that, two fairly-uncommon ones. Wouldn't omitting the shields from the pack as well as the weapons serve the stated intent better than including them because it would make the badge/ITF "extra-rewarding" for more players?|
Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
Only broadsword users can use the swords. I also see way more shield users than broadsword.
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What really bothers me isn't the weapons not being included, it's that the weapons aren't included but the shields are. The logic simply doesn't jive with itself, and especially not with the reasons we've been given for it. It falls apart with only a cursory examination.
As I said, it's really no skin off my back. But it still smells fishy.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
So how does this compare to getting the stuff from the ITF? What is different
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The ITF can't be run until a character reaches level 35; items from the pack are available at level 1.
The ITF can't be completed without also earning the Centurion badge (100 traiters to defeat for the badge, 300 to defeat in the last mission of the ITF alone) and thus unlocking the "missing" weapons, if you're playing a character who can use them; the pack doesn't include those at all.
Also, the bow. The only way to get Cupid's bow is by buying it (though it can be purchased separately from the whole pack).
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
Furthermore although the pack is available for a limited time, the individual pieces could be available seperately, and might simply be added to the long list of individual costume pieces players can get as they need.
Thus the bundle would effectlvely be a limited time discount.
However I don't know if this is the plan, so whatever.
And I can't be bothered to entertain this ridiculousness. You got something that a lot of players asked for. complaining about it is stupid. It's not like the gunslinger thing, it's not like they're selling packs that aren't ready for prime time, it's nothing worth wasting your complaints over.
Why would you waste text complaining about an alternative means of getting this stuff? It doesn't demean or lessen your play experience at ALL!
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Shields are considered weapons so why are these weapons included in the bundle but not the swords or axes?
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They're selling -- for money -- a product that is, arguably, incomplete, and the reason they've given for it being incomplete doesn't hold up to even casual scrutiny. It presents more questions than answers.
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Originally Posted by Party_Kake
You got something that a lot of players asked for. complaining about it is stupid. It's not like the gunslinger thing, it's not like they're selling packs that aren't ready for prime time, it's nothing worth wasting your complaints over.
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FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
The reason they give is the only real problem I see.
If you are serious about holding off on the weapons, to maintain some exclusive rewards to the ITF/Zone, then I'll deal with it.
I'll take them at their word.
However, if they are simply misdirecting us with that statement, while they put together the weapons pack... I won't be as pleased as Samuel Tow that's for sure.
If they plan on releasing it down the line for purchase, come out and tell us now. Otherwise, I'll really have to start filtering everything said through a marketing translator. Perception is everything.
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You go to the character creator and...there are no Roman parts. You have to get your Roman Centurion to level 35 and run the ITF to unlock them. So for the first 35 levels your 'Roman' is walking around with...medieval or Samurai armor.
Now do you get the logic?
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Why do I need to buy the pack if the sword is not included? Yeah I don't.
Out of principle I will not be buying an incomplete pack ("Roman costume bundle") like I did not purchase the CoT one. Bad precedent is bad and should be not supported.