How about because you live in the universe?
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Not a good enough reason.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
How about because you live in the universe?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Great answer and great substance/explanation.
I'm getting sick of that argument too. What if my character can slip into the space-time continuum? What if my character's from an ALTERNATE universe? What if, instead of feeding us the same "But you'll die too" crap we've been getting since the Rikti invasion, the storywriters allowed villains more flexibility than just "do it because it's the right thing to do"? How about that?
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Could also look at it this way -- you used Wade to eliminate Statesman and Psyche, creating opportunities for villainy while the Phalanx is in disarray. When he starts to get his own ideas and tries to betray you, you fool the heroes into getting rid of him for you, "for the greater good."
Yeah, someone really needs to find alternate ways of writing story stuff for co-op OTHER than 'for the greater smegging good'. I too am getting a little sick of that.
Even if it's something as simple as not arresting Wade but hauling his ***** *** back to the base, smacking the ever loving [pancake] out of him and then performing experiments to tear all that power he took out for personal use. THAT'S what a villain would do.
Bet we won't be allowed though. *SIGH*
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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For giggles I just read through parts one through four of WWD villain edition on paragonwiki. It seems to me that they've been going all-out on giving you exactly what you want. In fact, those aren't the only recent arcs where villains get some kind of rad temp power prize or nifty hare-brained scheme to pull off while the hero equivalents remain as stolid as ever in terms of their focus on "go here, be good." It seems to me that you are complaining about the possibility that you may have to fight another villain at the end of Who Will Die before you even know word two about what will happen.
Is this really that hard for you to understand? Wade double crossed you, you want to go kill him. They're clearly going to let you do that, but that isn't good enough because heroes also want to stop him? Please.
While I do think that it must get frustrating not to be able to be TRULY evil as a villain, I think sometimes it just makes sense. Even in comics, there are times that the villain aids the heroes to benefit themselves.
If the world was going to be destroyed, a villain would just sit back and let it, even if it means their own demise? Hardly.
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
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What about the motivation you mentioned in your OP? Durwood took the power that is rightfully yours. What self-respecting villain is goning to sit back and let that slide?
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Great answer and great substance/explanation.
I'm getting sick of that argument too. What if my character can slip into the space-time continuum? What if my character's from an ALTERNATE universe? What if, instead of feeding us the same "But you'll die too" crap we've been getting since the Rikti invasion, the storywriters allowed villains more flexibility than just "do it because it's the right thing to do"? How about that? |
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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And at the end, we're once again told "but now you're not the big dog anymore and you have to stop the new big dog for the greater good." No. Screw that. What if, instead of stopping him, we were given the choice to join him (we get a similar dialogue option FROM him, but the responses we can pick from boil down to 'no') and then later stab him in his trenchcoat-wearing back? Nope. We have to be good little boys and girls and save the universe. Oh goody.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
For giggles I just read through parts one through four of WWD villain edition on paragonwiki. It seems to me that they've been going all-out on giving you exactly what you want. In fact, those aren't the only recent arcs where villains get some kind of rad temp power prize or nifty hare-brained scheme to pull off while the hero equivalents remain as stolid as ever in terms of their focus on "go here, be good." It seems to me that you are complaining about the possibility that you may have to fight another villain at the end of Who Will Die before you even know word two about what will happen.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Is this really that hard for you to understand? Wade double crossed you, you want to go kill him. They're clearly going to let you do that, but that isn't good enough because heroes also want to stop him? Please.
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Up until SSA5, the player's villain was the one making headlines and busting skulls. Wade and Malaise were working alongside you, twisting their fingers into their own threads, but you were the guy/girl making the big moves and making it all happen.
In SSA5 you show up to Wade's little mid-storm get together and watch him kill States. That's it! No lead-up, no surprise, you just walk up and watch him die.
Next thing you know Wade's monologuing and you have to fight him. FOR THE GREATER GOOD.
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Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
What about the motivation you mentioned in your OP? Durwood took the power that is rightfully yours. What self-respecting villain is goning to sit back and let that slide?
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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While most sane villains would likely "play ball" and be nice in situations like this I do agree with Nalrok_AthZim that it would be nice if we at least had a "choice" to be insanely suicidally evil once in a while. |
Originally Posted by shaggy5
While I do think that it must get frustrating not to be able to be TRULY evil as a villain, I think sometimes it just makes sense. Even in comics, there are times that the villain aids the heroes to benefit themselves.
If the world was going to be destroyed, a villain would just sit back and let it, even if it means their own demise? Hardly. |
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I'm fighting him because he is threatening me. Perhaps your villain is fine with letting Wade kill him but mine isn't.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
According to the recent interview with Positron, the players involved in the SSA "will be at the vanguard of stopping [Darrin Wade] from destroying the entire planet."
Seriously? For four arcs, villains get to be actual villains instead of someone's errand boy/a greater villain's lackey/the fall guy. Now it looks like we're being corn holed into "the greater good" AGAIN. I'm getting really sick of this pseudo-evil garbage the storywriters keep jamming down the throats of myself and my villains. We only get to see the fruits of our labor in the success of other villains. It even happened with Wade! Villains spend all this time with Wade while he says "Just do this thing for me and you'll get some seriously awesome power later" and, once again, the contact turns it around on us. Now, we'll be "at the vanguard" of stopping Wade. Great! My villains always wanted to play the hero! Wait, no. They don't. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE VILLAINS. Where have we seen this before? -Heroes fight the Rikti to save the world. Villains can aid the heroes for the greater good. -Heroes fight the Fifth Column and the Cimeroran Traitors to stop their meddling with power and save the world. Villains can aid the heroes for the greater good. -Heroes can stop Snaptooth/Lady Winter from keeping the world in eternal frost and frozen time and save the world. Villains can aid the heroes for the greater good. -Heroes can fight Praetoria to stop their invasion of Primal Earth and save the world. Villains... can... aid the heroes... for the greater.... ugh. Is anyone else getting tired of being labeled a hero at the last minute? Some REAL villainy would be nice. Killing Alexis Cole-Duncan? Hell yes. Roughing up Johnny Sonata so he'll record a song capable of trashing Sister Psyche's brain? Alright then! Firing a warhead at Paragon to get the attention of big-name heroes just so they'll look the other way? DAMN RIGHT! .... having to fight Darrin Wade so he won't destroy the universe because "it's the right thing to do"? What crap. |
In other words my villain isn't stopping him because it is the right thing to do. He is stopping Wade because it is the only thing to do besides die.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I haven't seen WWD1.5 red because it isn't on paragonwiki yet, heh, but I have run the old Darrin Wade arc and in my personal opinion he doesn't seem like the kind of dude you'd want to join up with. As a matter of fact, he seems like he would kill anyone for any reason at the drop of a hat. I don't foresee that being emphasized any less in part 6 now that he has demigodly power. Why not give them a chance to show you what happens rather than assuming the worst based on one comment about something we won't see for two months?
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Because the storywriters' track record doesn't bestow confidence.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I haven't seen WWD1.5 red because it isn't on paragonwiki yet, heh, but I have run the old Darrin Wade arc and in my personal opinion he doesn't seem like the kind of dude you'd want to join up with. As a matter of fact, he seems like he would kill anyone for any reason at the drop of a hat. I don't foresee that being emphasized any less in part 6 now that he has demigodly power. Why not give them a chance to show you what happens rather than assuming the worst based on one comment about something we won't see for two months?
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Originally Posted by Lothic
While most sane villains would likely "play ball" and be nice in situations like this I do agree with Nalrok_AthZim that it would be nice if we at least had a "choice" to be insanely suicidally evil once in a while.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Yet I propose to you that it should. Like I said, and like you said, so far the SSAs have apparently been everything you'd hoped for. Mortimer Kai. The mid-level arcs in Sharkhead. All of it is good stuff by your own standards. Sorry for being curt but I just don't understand how you can look at what they've given you lately and still conclude that they're jerks who hate villains.
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What we found out was Wade used us to further his own ends. |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
And at the end, we're once again told "but now you're not the big dog anymore and you have to stop the new big dog for the greater good." No. Screw that. What if, instead of stopping him, we were given the choice to join him (we get a similar dialogue option FROM him, but the responses we can pick from boil down to 'no') and then later stab him in his trenchcoat-wearing back? Nope. We have to be good little boys and girls and save the universe. Oh goody.
I understand it just fine and I'd appreciate it if you didn't talk down to me as if you've somehow earned an award for being a better human being than I am. Capische? Capische. Up until SSA5, the player's villain was the one making headlines and busting skulls. Wade and Malaise were working alongside you, twisting their fingers into their own threads, but you were the guy/girl making the big moves and making it all happen. In SSA5 you show up to Wade's little mid-storm get together and watch him kill States. That's it! No lead-up, no surprise, you just walk up and watch him die. Next thing you know Wade's monologuing and you have to fight him. FOR THE GREATER GOOD. |
I DO agree with your objection about how we didn't have an option to pretend to play along.
But let me ask you this. Do you really think he has figured out a way that his plan will actually work? My level 50 villains don't. They have seen the future a few times and Wade isn't ruling in any of them.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Honestly, I think they were just promoting the arc from the perspective City of Heroes. Not CoX as people who routinely play all sides may call it.
I think it was just a promo oversight. The rest of the arc has been amazing, holding Numina's "bowling ball" hostage for a power heroside doesn't get is a great example. If this had been chapter 1, I'd probably share in your concerns, but I think the writers have earned the benefit of the doubt. In this specific instance due to the history of the arc.
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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"...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn." - Alfred, The Dark Knight|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
If Supervillain A was going to push the red button to destroy the world, at least 4 of my characters would knock him aside and push the button themselves, laughing until the lights went out.
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Perhaps someday there'll be a game where we can play this way.
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We don't know that that won't be the case, we don't know what motivation will be presented in the story until we see it. Whatever the motivation, as a side effect we will be stopping the world being destroyed as it can't be destroyed due to the nature of the game. |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Exactly! You're exactly right. But we really haven't had that option! It may seem like we do in this current SSA, but the outcome still benefits the enemies of our characters, which is something villains don't want. What redside needs is a way to crush Wade, crush their enemies (sing if you want) and take that power for themselves, NOT destroy it 'for the greater good.'
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Personally, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't some sort of temp power reward for Villains (like the flames of prometheus) at the very end, as they managed to claim a portion of the power whilst beating Wade.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
They could just get rid of the City of Villains side of things altogether. It would be effectively the same for the Villains as if the "greater good" failed and the world was destroyed. They wouldn't be able to play any more, but at least they could be satisfied with the knowledge that they didn't do a good deed - and after all, that's what's important.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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This might be one drastic way to handle it. |
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
They could just get rid of the City of Villains side of things altogether. It would be effectively the same for the Villains as if the "greater good" failed and the world was destroyed. They wouldn't be able to play any more, but at least they could be satisfied with the knowledge that they didn't do a good deed - and after all, that's what's important.
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What I personally do is barely acknowledge the relevance of the canon to any of my characters. It's simply much easier to disassociate any parts of the "story" of the game that doesn't really match up with anything my characters would be involved with one way of the other.
I don't believe the game's background story is completely pointless. But by not trying to wedge my characters into it I can usually avoid situations where the story doesn't make much sense with what I have going on.
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That'd be fine if you were only turning your own lights out - it's not so easy when thousands of other players want the lights left on.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
If Supervillain A was going to push the red button to destroy the world, at least 4 of my characters would knock him aside and push the button themselves, laughing until the lights went out.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I got sick of it issues ago. It truly is beyond tiresome. First Ward didn't even bother to try and have any villainy in it. And from what I've seen of it so far, New Dark Astoria is going to be exactly the same. |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Is anyone else getting tired of being labeled a hero at the last minute?
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I'm hoping that this was a publicity error but I'm not counting on it.
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The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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"Are you sure you want to complete the 'Destroy the World' morality mission? Completing this mission will delete your character!"|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
If Supervillain A was going to push the red button to destroy the world, at least 4 of my characters would knock him aside and push the button themselves, laughing until the lights went out.
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And because of all the "you are now playing the world shaped by your team leader's deeds" popups, it's not even a surprise when the rest of the game continues unhindered for absolutely everyone else. They didn't push the red button after all.
Everyone wins!
@Mindshadow
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I agree with this. I can also see it from the other side of the discussion too.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
While most sane villains would likely "play ball" and be nice in situations like this I do agree with Nalrok_AthZim that it would be nice if we at least had a "choice" to be insanely suicidally evil once in a while.
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Everlasting Ruling Authority@President SK
According to the recent interview with Positron, the players involved in the SSA "will be at the vanguard of stopping [Darrin Wade] from destroying the entire planet."
Seriously?
For four arcs, villains get to be actual villains instead of someone's errand boy/a greater villain's lackey/the fall guy. Now it looks like we're being corn holed into "the greater good" AGAIN.
I'm getting really sick of this pseudo-evil garbage the storywriters keep jamming down the throats of myself and my villains. We only get to see the fruits of our labor in the success of other villains. It even happened with Wade! Villains spend all this time with Wade while he says "Just do this thing for me and you'll get some seriously awesome power later" and, once again, the contact turns it around on us.
Now, we'll be "at the vanguard" of stopping Wade. Great! My villains always wanted to play the hero! Wait, no. They don't. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE VILLAINS.
Where have we seen this before?
-Heroes fight the Rikti to save the world. Villains can aid the heroes for the greater good.
-Heroes fight the Fifth Column and the Cimeroran Traitors to stop their meddling with power and save the world. Villains can aid the heroes for the greater good.
-Heroes can stop Snaptooth/Lady Winter from keeping the world in eternal frost and frozen time and save the world. Villains can aid the heroes for the greater good.
-Heroes can fight Praetoria to stop their invasion of Primal Earth and save the world. Villains... can... aid the heroes... for the greater.... ugh.
Is anyone else getting tired of being labeled a hero at the last minute? Some REAL villainy would be nice. Killing Alexis Cole-Duncan? Hell yes. Roughing up Johnny Sonata so he'll record a song capable of trashing Sister Psyche's brain? Alright then! Firing a warhead at Paragon to get the attention of big-name heroes just so they'll look the other way? DAMN RIGHT!
.... having to fight Darrin Wade so he won't destroy the universe because "it's the right thing to do"? What crap.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."