I like the changes outlined, especially for Dimension Shift. They should give the same treatment to Dark Miasma's Black Hole.
Now if only they would change the KB to KD in Wormhole...
Oh wow- so they finally changed that big stinker Dimension shift? I might have to find a way to work that into my build. Situational, yes, but that sounds pretty bad a**.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
The changes appear to be:
1. Gravity Distortion will set up "Impact" damage to increase the damage from Propel and Lift.
2. Propel's animation time will be shortened and the velocity of the object will increase.
3. Lift's Damage will be increased for Controllers.
4. Dimension Shift will change to a Targetted AoE persistant effect that can be turned off by the player, but will last no longer than 20 seconds. Foes in the area or later entering the area will be immobilized and phased.
5. Wormhole's AoE will increase from 15 feet to 20 feet, and it will no longer notify foes early in the animation, making it a much better initial attack. (But the knockback will not be changed.)
6. Singularity will have increased damage from Lift.
I think that is all of them that showed up in the Dominator's Thread. All of the changes are good, but there is a lot of discussion requesting that the Knockback be turned into Knockdown. Several other requests were not incorporated, but overall it looks like a nice boost to a set that needed it.
The change to Wormhole will make it much more useful. I can see a team setting up a "death zone" in one location, and then the Grav controller wormholling foes in the area into the "death zone."
I'm not sure if the change to Dimension Shift will make the power worth taking, but it could lead to an interesting strategy of setting up DimShift, and then Wormholling foes into the zone. The ability to turn off the Phase certainly makes it more appealing.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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I think they like the knocking people around aspect of Gravity so that's somewhat unlikely. Maybe we could persuade them to change it to a knock-up effect instead of kb.
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Originally Posted by Xiroth
Now if only they would change the KB to KD in Wormhole...
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MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
I think that would be a smart move Oliin. I wish they'd do the same for Jolting Chain. I have no idea what the aversion to knockup may be on the devs' part.
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See, Knockdown is still a knock effect though. It's just knockback, for a very, very short distance.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
I think they like the knocking people around aspect of Gravity so that's somewhat unlikely. Maybe we could persuade them to change it to a knock-up effect instead of kb.
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If anything I think knockUP would be worse than KD for the feel of the power. The direction of force is horizontal, having the knock effect be vertical would just look weird.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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You're not thinking with portals.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
If anything I think knockUP would be worse than KD for the feel of the power. The direction of force is horizontal, having the knock effect be vertical would just look weird.
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Culex's resistance guide
sounds like some good tweaks to gravity. Ill have to dee if i can fit demension shift in my build now lol. I am not a huge fan of phase powers but it sounds better then it was. The game is much faster pace then the old days.
Also, Dimension shift will be a targeted aoe, that can even be targeted in the air so as to allow the user to really choose the area of effect.
I generally try to stick to a personal rule I made a few years back to not duplicate powersets in play so I could get a really different experience within each AT that I play. I could dust off my old Grav / Kin troller, but I've actually roled a grav /time troller to try out these changes with.
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I'm glad I don't have that kind of personal rule. I have 4 Illusion Controllers with different secondaries at 50 with a 5th getting there, and each one plays differently. I also have 4 */Rads and 4 */Storms. I have a Gravity/Storm that I finally got to 50 after trying Grav/Rad and Grav/Kin and Grav/Therm. Each combination of primary and secondary plays differently.
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Originally Posted by Tannim222
Also, Dimension shift will be a targeted aoe, that can even be targeted in the air so as to allow the user to really choose the area of effect.
I generally try to stick to a personal rule I made a few years back to not duplicate powersets in play so I could get a really different experience within each AT that I play. I could dust off my old Grav / Kin troller, but I've actually roled a grav /time troller to try out these changes with. |
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
4. Dimension Shift will change to a Targetted AoE persistant effect that can be turned off by the player, but will last no longer than 20 seconds. Foes in the area or later entering the area will be immobilized and phased.
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I had actually suggested a change similar to this sometime back, so I have to support it now.
Will be interesting to see how it pans out in practice. I'm not sure about the 20 second limitation, but interesting stuff. On a sidenote, I still really, really, really hope they give Gravity's hold and AoE hold powers the "flip enemy helplessly in the air" animation used by Ghost Widow, as an alternate. That animation looks incredible and I'd play Gravity just to watch 16 of enemies flip helplessly around through the air. No other AoE hold could possibly look as awesome.
There is one request I'd like to make - Please examine Singularity's Movement speed! It's distressing (when it isn't catastrophic) to be able to out-run your pet with nothing but Sprint on. Perhaps give Singy perma-Fly, instead of Hover? If nothing else, introduce the 'teleport-code' that Mastermind pets use, to keep up with their fast-moving masters.
I really hate arriving at the fight and then having to wait for Singularity to catch up.
Be Well!
Fireheart
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Yea, KD is a very low mag KB effect.|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
See, Knockdown is still a knock effect though. It's just knockback, for a very, very short distance.
If anything I think knockUP would be worse than KD for the feel of the power. The direction of force is horizontal, having the knock effect be vertical would just look weird. |
Now it's been a while since I played my grav controller, but I don't recall there being any sort of direction of force with wormhole. There's just a particle effect, they teleport, then they appear where you want with another particle effect and go flying back. Don't think it would look terribly bad myself, but that's obviously just me.
Mostly I suggested KU instead of KD since a part of the reason Arbiter Hawk gave for not wanting to make the power do KD was for thematic reasons and KU is still throwing enemies around (visually speaking):
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Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
I also just think the power feels/looks a lot cooler as "throwing enemies around with gravity" rather than "dropping enemies somewhere else with teleport", which keeps it much more in Gravity's kit.
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MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
Good! Its about time Gravity got some love!
Ice could use a second look as well IMO.
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I suppose other than the arm thrusting motion, it's not that obvious. The idea of it seems, to me, to be more: Form wormhole behind mobs>Push them through it.|
Originally Posted by Oliin
Yea, KD is a very low mag KB effect.
Now it's been a while since I played my grav controller, but I don't recall there being any sort of direction of force with wormhole. There's just a particle effect, they teleport, then they appear where you want with another particle effect and go flying back. Don't think it would look terribly bad myself, but that's obviously just me. |
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Originally Posted by Oliin
Mostly I suggested KU instead of KD since a part of the reason Arbiter Hawk gave for not wanting to make the power do KD was for thematic reasons and KU is still throwing enemies around (visually speaking):
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@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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I'm probably the only one who thinks it would be AWESOMELY THEMATIC to deploy a Dimension Shift onto the ceiling and then use Wormhole to Knock*UP* enemies into the Dimension Shift AoE which then "pins them" against the ceiling until I release them from the Dimension Shift (to fall down into a Crushing Field/Distortion Field/YouAreMyChewToys Field). |
Originally Posted by Oathbound
I just flat out disagree with Arbiter Hawk. I think KnockDown would still keep the overall feel, and make the power easier to use/less annoying to teammates.
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It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
The only problem I see with the changes is people will start using dimension shift under the mistaken idea that it's useful. Controllable or not, you can count on the fingers of one hand the situations where phasing enemies when they could be debuffed, mezzed and dying instead makes a net positive contribution.
Make it a location AoE that slows and has a chance to hold, like Distortion field from time manip. Now that'd actually be useful and not just a tool for griefing sewer teams.
The new damage buff on Lift and faster Propel + Impact makes it a very viable ST attack chain for controller. I tried it on dominator and it seems to be better than most of my range attacks before I have fast recharge.
If I can feel it on my dominator, I am sure it is even better for controller. You'll see two texts "Impact + Containment!".
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Local - you always have great insight into the different sets. In your opinion, do any of the gravity tweaks grant them greater synergy with any particular secondaries or is it the same you have said in the past but with some nice changes being made?
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
I'm glad I don't have that kind of personal rule. I have 4 Illusion Controllers with different secondaries at 50 with a 5th getting there, and each one plays differently. I also have 4 */Rads and 4 */Storms. I have a Gravity/Storm that I finally got to 50 after trying Grav/Rad and Grav/Kin and Grav/Therm. Each combination of primary and secondary plays differently.
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I don't see that any of these changes make a significant change to the powerset. Lift and Propel will do more damage. Wormhole will have a larger area and no longer subject you to an initial attack. (I won't have to hide behind a wall anymore!) Singy will do more damage. And Dimension Shift will change from being horrible to mearly questionable. These changes will make the set better, but not really change its focus.|
Originally Posted by Screwyrabbit
Local - you always have great insight into the different sets. In your opinion, do any of the gravity tweaks grant them greater synergy with any particular secondaries or is it the same you have said in the past but with some nice changes being made?
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Gravity will continue to be a fairly strong single target damage set with weak AoE control. Lift may actually become a better power than Crush. It will still rely heavily upon the pet for its best AoE Control. If Wormhole got rid of the knockback, it might become a "every time it is up" power like Flashfire or Stalagmites, but with the knockback it is still a situational power. I question whether the changes to Dimension Shift will make it a power worth taking . . . but it is at least worth considering with these changes whereas before it was an absolute stinker.
I really like my Gravity/Storm. Gravity/Dark might be a pretty darn good combo when the next issue hits, but just about everything will go well with */Dark. Grav/Time might be pretty good. But Gravity is still a sub-par Control set if you are looking for AoE control for teams. These changes will make it a better solo set. So you probably want a secondary that is good solo.
I will probably enjoy playing my Grav/Storm more with these changes. But I probably won't roll up another Gravity unless Grav/Traps becomes available.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Well it looks much better on a Controller to me. Posted this on the feedback thread:|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
The new damage buff on Lift and faster Propel + Impact makes it a very viable ST attack chain for controller. I tried it on dominator and it seems to be better than most of my range attacks before I have fast recharge.
If I can feel it on my dominator, I am sure it is even better for controller. You'll see two texts "Impact + Containment!". |
I never played Grav and rolled a grav/dark dom. At level 8 I had the hold, propel, lift, dark blast and gloom. Toon was unslotted, I had attacks recharging more than I could use them so I thought 'well from my secondary I'll want... what? The AoE and Life drain just for the heal maybe' (didn't need to get into melee anyway).
Then I rerolled her as a Grav/Cold. Well with containment, I was doing as much damage as the dom, maybe a bit more. I decided to embrace the sT nature of the set and took the st immob so same deal, I had a seamless attack chain with decent damage (powered by containment and impact) so imo the controller had a lot more 'prospects' than the dom.
I didn't think these changed would make me want to play gravity but with such good damage, I definitely want to roll a Troller now, no matter how much the set may still underperform or not, it feels like a boss dealer at least.
considering a Singularity is one of the most powerful force's in the universe...Let's give Singy a damage aura!
perma jump is ---> /up 1
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That... would be very counter-intuitive given his repel field. (Why a singularity repels* anything is a bit of a head scratcher.)|
Originally Posted by Hindenburg
considering a Singularity is one of the most powerful force's in the universe...Let's give Singy a damage aura!
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(Also note that, ironically, none of the powers with Repel in their name actually are repel. They're all knockback.)
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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How dare you bring actual common sense into this game!!
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
That... would be very counter-intuitive given his repel field. (Why a singularity repels* anything is a bit of a head scratcher.)
(Also note that, ironically, none of the powers with Repel in their name actually are repel. They're all knockback.) |
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Just so it's not just the dominators talking about this, Gravity Control is going to get, if not love then a little bit of distracted affection according to Arbiter Hawk.
New Grav Tweaks
(84554) A Mid-Winter's Night Dream
(148487) Punk 'n' Pie