Smaller iTrials: Would you do them?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-12-26 20:13 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Unless those smaller groups are there because they can't tolerate the iTrials in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
People will be in DA for one reason - Incarnate content - the chances of smaller groups of them deciding to join up to get faster Incarnate progress on a Trial are pretty good.
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They'll be the minority |
Originally Posted by Ogi
Unless those smaller groups are there because they can't tolerate the iTrials in the first place.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Self fulfilling prophecy. If it's intentionally onerous enough to herd people back to the iTrials the people not interested in iTrials won't even go (or as premium be able to go) to DA.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
They'll be the minority
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ON/OFF switch syndrome alert!| If you can get the same rewards for doing an 8 man incarnate trial, as a 24, who is gonna bother forming the 24? |
Can't speak for anyone else, but I'd go for 8- players trials even if it gave rewards only 50% as fast as the bigger trials.
Yes I would.
I play the iTrials mostly because it is the only method available for acquiring Incarnate abilities past the Alpha slot. I do not particularly enjoy teams of 16-24, I do not particularly enjoy the gimmicks, and I do not think the "story" is particularly good (so far).
I would love to see Incarnate trials designed for 4-8 players. I completely agree that teams of 24 do not translate into anything that feels like superhero comics to me. But, more importantly, I would love to see smaller trials because I'd like to see lots of them, purely for the sake of variety. It is intrinsically boring to me to grind the same mission more than two or three times. But since there are only six iTrials available, there is little choice but to run them over and over in order to work one's way up the tiers. I'd rather have twenty small trials designed for 4-8 players, than half a dozen big trials designed for 16-24 players.
The only time I like the idea of large masses of players participating in something "together", are zone-wide events that happen in real-time. Teams and leagues aren't (or shouldn't be) even necessary, allowing everyone to take part regardless of whether they happen to be soloing or teaming at the moment a zone event occurs. There is a spontaneity and an immediacy to zone events that you can't really capture with trials, not even the Hamidon Raid (IMO).
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
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If you take these forums at face value, earning experience efficiently or liking to bash monsters in a game that is mostly centered around these two things is terrible, whereas liking to roleplay makes you an inherently better person in real life.|
Originally Posted by Ogi
Perhaps I was just hallucinating all the "don't waste my time if you're not +1/+2" posts reprimanding under plussed players who dared try a trial where they are supposed to get their plusses and directing them to get their plusses on their own time.
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Now log ingame for about five minutes and take a casual glance around...
... That is why you never, ever want to base your opinion of anything in a multiplayer video game from forum posts alone. A good rule of thumb is to assume the opposite of the forumite consensus to be true, but ultimately nothing makes up for actually experiencing the game yourself.
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And rocks!|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
There are hundreds of Warworks and DF to mow down on the Trials
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
but when you get to the Incarnate system, you aren't limited to fire based Incarnate powers - you're given a choice of every single Incarnate power - but that doesn't mean that you're supposed to have every single Incarnate power.
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Geezus. Weebus. But I'm glad I don't have a lot personally invested in this Incarnate BS.
If I can find a server where the new DA is lowly populated and the solo street hunting is not in competition with the almighty bullying groups, it might be an experience I'll enjoy.
But, get this, I and many other soloers are simply not in a hurry to get to tier 4 everything. It is simply NOT important to our way of playing the game. I play for fun, pleasure, relaxation, enjoyment, delight, blah blah blah. Stressful playing conditions do NOT contribute to what I seek from this game.
While a whole bunch of you thrive on adrenaline boosting playing conditions, my tired old body cannot handle them. They do things to me that you don't want to know about.
Solo play is the ONLY way I can play this game and if solo play style gets diminished in any way, they lose my subscription fee.
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A low population in the only zone in the game with Incarnate content? |
Originally Posted by Fritzy
If I can find a server where the new DA is lowly populated
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Solo (finally) Incarnate content to boot.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
A low population in the only zone in the game with Incarnate content?
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Lol snap!|
Originally Posted by Ogi
Unless those smaller groups are there because they can't tolerate the iTrials in the first place.
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I'll be doing the DA content with my SG-mates. I expect blind 'your team has bern invited to a league' requests from people who assume like GG that anyone in DA is there to raid.
I really hope Pocket D (on Freedom) stays the League rally point. Then I know where to go if I ever do want to trial, and my solo/small group Incarnate zone can stay that, untarnished by iTrialophiles.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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It might - just as long as they add Incarnate mobs to streep sweep and repeatable Incarnate contacts to it - otherwise, there's going to be a stampede to DA by everyone interested in Incarnates |
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
I really hope Pocket D (on Freedom) stays the League rally point.
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There's zero reason to gather in PD or the RWZ when DA offers Incarnate rewards in the downtime between Trials - DA's going to be the Trial staging ground that quite a few people were asking for when the Trials first came out.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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If the rate of Incarnate advancement through the solo path is as bad as you say it will be, maybe the hardcore trialers won't bother with it after they've done it for the storyline or to check it out once.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It might - just as long as they add Incarnate mobs to streep sweep and repeatable Incarnate contacts to it - otherwise, there's going to be a stampede to DA by everyone interested in Incarnates
 There's zero reason to gather in PD or the RWZ when DA offers Incarnate rewards in the downtime between Trials - DA's going to be the Trial staging ground that quite a few people were asking for when the Trials first came out. |
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Everyone has to choose between ongoing progress and working on new characters. Irrespective of the form of that progress, that's a fundamental choice everyone has to make - play an existing character to progress it or play a new character and perhaps get it to where the existing character already is.|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Why would you not like all of your characters to advance to the end game? So the Devs are making this so you can run it once get ticked off and quit running it?
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Imagine the devs had performed a major miracle and produced 50 more levels of content, setting a new level cap at level 100. Imagine it took, on average, 75 hours of play per character to get a level 50 to level 100. If you had 20 level 50s that's 1500 hours of play.
The only ways to make it "easy" to achieve getting every character you might have to level 100 is to have few characters or to make getting to level 100 trivial. The former doesn't apply to you, and few devs in any PvE-focused game would likely willingly let the latter happen.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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At this point, I don't think the "solo" path needs to offer "bad" progress rates. It just needs to be less good than running down the list of iTrials. Right now, with six trials, the rate of available Incarnate progress is, frankly, very high. If there is regular access to all the iTrials except perhaps MoM, I can run a few trials a night and pretty easily have at least all T3s in the level-shifting slots on a character in about a week. If things are really moving and I devote several hours to it, I can earn 10 Empyrean merits in a night of play. Remember, a Rare Incarnate Salvage piece costs 8 Empyrean Merits to craft outright with zero Inf cost. A Very Rare costs 30.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
If the rate of Incarnate advancement through the solo path is as bad as you say it will be, maybe the hardcore trialers won't bother with it after they've done it for the storyline or to check it out once.
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The above does assume you have regular access to non-failing leagues. Leagues I attend or lead do succeed more than they fail by a decent margin - probably at least 9:1. The new 60 thread mid-trial reward for the TPN and UGT also provide an absolutely amazing boost to how fast you can craft your way to a Rare (or VR), though the UGT thread reward needs to be fixed so that you get it for all successes against the WWs.
So basically, the DA-based progress could be set somewhere down below but even somewhat near where things were when all we had were BAF and Lambda, and iTrials would still be a lot faster, but DA-based progress would not suck. I would totally still do iTrials, because I do not hate them and I covet that fast progress, but I would totally use DA when I wanted to work on an Incarnate but there weren't enough people around to form an iTrial (which is pretty much any time before around 4 PM US/Central most days on Justice).
Edit: By the way, if the progress rates on offer there are not glacial, I do think DA is going to be the new place to form iTrials. I just don't see the point in going to RWZ or PD. If you're waiting for an iTrial, right now you're forced to stand around doing nothing. Once DA becomes an Incarnate progress zone, you can fight stuff there while waiting and potentially earn something while doing so. If the DA makeover comes bundled with the ability to run door missions while in the LFG queue, this is even better, though the LFG queue itself will still need some functional improvements, IMO. I expect most league leaders to try to fill a league on a direct invite basis, not with the queue, because only by direct invite can you see what you're getting, and the UGT, TPN and especially MoM do require you to pay at least some attention to what's on your league.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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This sounds about right.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
If there is regular access to all the iTrials except perhaps MoM, I can run a few trials a night and pretty easily have at least all T3s in the level-shifting slots on a character in about a week.
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I started working towards getting T3s on a character to see how much work it really is. So far, I've done four BAFs over four or five days, unlocked the Judgement slot and got enough astrals and salvage to make a T3 Judgement power.
That means I should be able to get T3s in Interface, Judgement, Destiny and Lore in 20 or so trials. If I don't luck out and get the necessary rares, I'll have to use some Empyreans, but since they made that fix way back when, salvage hasn't been a problem for me.
The problem I have now is that no one wants to run straight Lambdas: they always want to do sLAMs that usually fail (3 out of 3 fails so far), which means I get very few threads, no astrals, no empyreans and no salvage drop at the end.
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The biggest problem with DA being the Trial staging zone is that the street mobs mightn't respawn fast enough to keep up with the frenzied packs of Incanrates thowing out Judgements in the downtime between Trials |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
By the way, if the progress rates on offer there are not glacial, I do think DA is going to be the new place to form iTrials. I just don't see the point in going to RWZ or PD. If you're waiting for an iTrial, right now you're forced to stand around doing nothing. Once DA becomes an Incarnate progress zone, you can fight stuff there while waiting and potentially earn something while doing so. If the DA makeover comes bundled with the ability to run door missions while in the LFG queue, this is even better, though the LFG queue itself will still need some functional improvements, IMO. I expect most league leaders to try to fill a league on a direct invite basis, not with the queue, because only by direct invite can you see what you're getting, and the UGT, TPN and especially MoM do require you to pay at least some attention to what's on your league.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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LOL, this.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The biggest problem with DA being the Trial staging zone is that the street mobs mightn't respawn fast enough to keep up with the frenzied packs of Incanrates thowing out Judgements in the downtime between Trials
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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
There's also the chance there'll be a DA 1 and DA 2 from time to time, especially on the bigger servers, so I think that Trials should probably form in the safe area near the entrance, to make it easier for people to pop in and out if they end up in the wrong version of the zone.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Maybe. It's a pretty big zone. I think there will be plenty of spawns. When you're street sweeping in normal zones, the limited supply of stuff to fight comes from the fact that most zones have a range of critter levels, and we generally only want to fight stuff in a 1-3 level band. Based on my understanding of the revamp, DA will be different from every other zone prior in that particular regard - everything will be level 54, and therefore a viable target for a level 50.*|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The biggest problem with DA being the Trial staging zone is that the street mobs mightn't respawn fast enough to keep up with the frenzied packs of Incanrates thowing out Judgements in the downtime between Trials
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I've wanted a zone like that for a long time.
* This does assume nothing wandering around in the open zone has a level shift. That might not be a safe assumption.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I swear, you have to have their offices bugged.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The DA mob level range is 50-54.
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Watching the videos from the Player Summit works just as well.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
I swear, you have to have their offices bugged.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
No.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork