Smaller iTrials: Would you do them?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-12-26 20:13 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
Don't forget that the DA mobs are going to be tougher than normal mobs - a Dark Astoria 50 is going to be more challenging to fight than a Peregrine Island 50.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I read what was posted of those slides and the summary posts, and got 54-only out of it. Level 50 makes little sense to me - nothing in the Incarnate content is level 50. That's going to make most of the zone a waste in terms of challenge to anyone who has all their level shifts.
Can you point to a specific bit of info on that? If that's really the plan, my feedback to the devs on that is going to be to not do it that way. My opinion is that everything in that zone should be level 54 (or higher). And yes, I understand that some people will be heading in there on straight 50s with no Alpha shift. |
This is meant to be soloable content - throwing, say, a new 50 Defender into a zone with nothing but enemy 54s would be unfair.
Also, as far as level shifts go, it's possible that the +2 and +3 might still only work on Trials, or only on Trials and Incarnate missions - so 50+1 might be the highest available for street sweeping.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
IDF are more challenging than normal mobs, and we don't meet them in incarnate content as anything but level 54s. We can meet them as 50s (and less) in normal, non-Incarnate content.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Don't forget that the DA mobs are going to be tougher than normal mobs - a Dark Astoria 50 is going to be more challenging to fight than a Peregrine Island 50.
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Quote:
| This is meant to be soloable content - throwing, say, a new 50 Defender into a zone with nothing but enemy 54s would be unfair. |
I have been a strong proponent of something other than iTrials as a way for people to get "iProgress", but I'm not looking for that to also bridge the mechanical stat-contest difficulty gap between iTrials and standard 50 content.
Quote:
| Also, as far as level shifts go, it's possible that the +2 and +3 might still only work on Trials, or only on Trials and Incarnate missions - so 50+1 might be the highest available for street sweeping. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
The DA mobs will be weaker than the Trial enemies, but stronger than the non-Incanrtae enemies.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
IDF are more challenging than normal mobs, and we don't meet them in incarnate content as anything but level 54s. We can meet them as 50s (and less) in normal, non-Incarnate content.
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EDIT: Here are some fuzzy screens from the Player Summit with the DA info:
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
If the proposed solo Incarnate content is hard-locked at level 54, then that makes it a complete bust as a solo path to Incarnate status for anyone who's not already at +3. That is to say, it makes it a complete bust for ME, since most of the characters I want to take up the path haven't even run Ramiel's arc yet, as there's no to point at the moment.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I read what was posted of those slides and the summary posts, and got 54-only out of it. Level 50 makes little sense to me - nothing in the Incarnate content is level 50. That's going to make most of the zone a waste in terms of challenge to anyone who has all their level shifts.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Don't weep - Dark Astoria is 50-54 |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
If the proposed solo Incarnate content is hard-locked at level 54, then that makes it a complete bust as a solo path to Incarnate status for anyone who's not already at +3. That is to say, it makes it a complete bust for ME, since most of the characters I want to take up the path haven't even run Ramiel's arc yet, as there's no to point at the moment.
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That's one of the reasons the Trials give better rewards - they're 54+.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
In addition to GG's images, I also found where the devs posted the 50-54 info here on the forums.
I'm still looking for the post I think I remember saying we get to be fully +3 in the open zone.
Edit: Found it. It wasn't a redname post, so it's second-hand info.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Having some Incarnate enemies conning gray to 50+3s would be funny
It's a good way of moving the higher Incanrates away from the lower mobs though, to let the lower Incarnates have a chance to street sweep them.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
...uh?|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
If the proposed solo Incarnate content is hard-locked at level 54, then that makes it a complete bust as a solo path to Incarnate status for anyone who's not already at +3.
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By level 50, almost any reasonably solo-capable character should be able to solo at +4. Not +4/x8, that's really hard. But +4/x1 isn't terrible, mostly you just need good accuracy.
I mean... the trials, Tin Mage/Apex, and STF have been at 54 since always, even before we had level shifts, and they're perfectly doable.
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My thoughts exactly.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
By level 50, almost any reasonably solo-capable character should be able to solo at +4. Not +4/x8, that's really hard. But +4/x1 isn't terrible, mostly you just need good accuracy.
I mean... the trials, Tin Mage/Apex, and STF have been at 54 since always, even before we had level shifts, and they're perfectly doable. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Not every level 50 build is able to take on 54s, even if they've soloed 1-50.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
...uh?
By level 50, almost any reasonably solo-capable character should be able to solo at +4. Not +4/x8, that's really hard. But +4/x1 isn't terrible, mostly you just need good accuracy. I mean... the trials, Tin Mage/Apex, and STF have been at 54 since always, even before we had level shifts, and they're perfectly doable. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Can you name me a level 50 build, which hasn't explicitly gimped itself, which one could bear to solo for 50 levels, but couldn't clear a level 54 mission on x1, with insp use? I can't think of any offhand, myself, but I could be wrong.
Quote:
Most of mine can't. I slot for accuracy to be about as much as it takes to hit even level or at best +1 enemies. +4 enemies are significantly more difficult to hit, tend to hit through a lot of defences if you don't "softcap" and are harder to kill while being simultaneously more dangerous. +4 enemies are purple, that's outside the "con" system.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Can you name me a level 50 build, which hasn't explicitly gimped itself, which one could bear to solo for 50 levels, but couldn't clear a level 54 mission on x1, with insp use? I can't think of any offhand, myself, but I could be wrong.
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And while I may or may not be able to clear a single +4 mission, is that going to earn me a level shift? Because the way I see it, I'm going to have to clear a whole lot of these missions to get any progress, and that simply isn't acceptable. That's NOT better than Trials.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm not a number cruncher |
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Can you name me a level 50 build, which hasn't explicitly gimped itself, which one could bear to solo for 50 levels, but couldn't clear a level 54 mission on x1, with insp use? I can't think of any offhand, myself, but I could be wrong.
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But when GR came out, I helped out a lot of people who were having difficulty soloing Trapdoor and Hero 1.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
I have never understood why so many people have issues with trapdoor. If you're 50 and can't solo an EB, well, you don't really deserve (or you're not ready) to be doing incarnate content.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But when GR came out, I helped out a lot of people who were having difficulty soloing Trapdoor and Hero 1.
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Some builds really don't solo well (and some players aren't good at it, either). I don't think those builds/players are usually the ones clamoring for a solo path, though.
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I can understand it. He's got that killer regen from his bifurcations that spawn like crazy every few seconds. If you're low DPS, that can be rather rough unless you can find a way to get him in the lava and keep him there.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
I have never understood why so many people have issues with trapdoor. If you're 50 and can't solo an EB, well, you don't really deserve (or you're not ready) to be doing incarnate content.
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It's totally reasonable for anyone who's soloed 1-50 to expect the non-Trial Incanrate content to be tougher than the 1-50 stuff they've done, but not +4 - there's a difference between a step up and a huge leap.|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
I have never understood why so many people have issues with trapdoor. If you're 50 and can't solo an EB, well, you don't really deserve (or you're not ready) to be doing incarnate content.
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Having DA be 50-54 insetad of 54 means that solo players can gradually takes on 51s, 52s, 53s and 54s as they gain their Incarnate powers and level shifts.
Locking level shifts behind content that would he hard to solo without level shifts is unfair.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
I've solo'd him on my pvp Ill/Emp (before she got deleted), purely support based without lava. I've solo'd him on SO'd toons with non optimal builds. The only time I wasn't able to solo him was on one toon that was on +4 for some reason, in which case I simply lowered my difficulty and went back in and killed him. And if you're really having difficulty you can just grab a bunch of reds.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
I can understand it. He's got that killer regen from his bifurcations that spawn like crazy every few seconds. If you're low DPS, that can be rather rough unless you can find a way to get him in the lava and keep him there.
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Quote:
That wouldn't be an option if DA was only 54.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
The only time I wasn't able to solo him was on one toon that was on +4 for some reason, in which case I simply lowered my difficulty and went back in and killed him.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
Well good for you. Not everyone can do that.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
I've solo'd him on my pvp Ill/Emp (before she got deleted), purely support based without lava. I've solo'd him on SO'd toons with non optimal builds. The only time I wasn't able to solo him was on one toon that was on +4 for some reason, in which case I simply lowered my difficulty and went back in and killed him. And if you're really having difficulty you can just grab a bunch of reds.
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Quote:
keyword: if.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That wouldn't be an option if DA was only 54.
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It's not.
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I know it's not - that's why I'm saying it'd be unfair if it was |
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
keyword: if.
It's not. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Yes, the whole point is rather academic I suppose. My fault for bringing it up.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That wouldn't be an option if DA was only 54.
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I suspect there'll be a fair few toons just stood around in whatever bit of DA becomes the de facto 'Atlas Statue' bit spamming heals and making their damn demons dance and superspeeding around in circles like children just like they do in Pocket D.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The biggest problem with DA being the Trial staging zone is that the street mobs mightn't respawn fast enough to keep up with the frenzied packs of Incanrates thowing out Judgements in the downtime between Trials
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Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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Can you point to a specific bit of info on that? If that's really the plan, my feedback to the devs on that is going to be to not do it that way. My opinion is that everything in that zone should be level 54 (or higher). And yes, I understand that some people will be heading in there on straight 50s with no Alpha shift.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA